Sibdane Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Palfy said: Maybe normal was the wrong choice of word to use average may have been better, but from what you said there isn’t an average American either. We are getting from our media the wages have increased and more jobs have been created under Trump and your economy is doing really well. Its funny you should mention the two parties I’ve always felt there is room for a serious third party that pitch’s it self some were between Dems and Republicans. Unfortunately, the ultra liberals and the ultra conservatives outnumber the moderates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 minute ago, sibdane said: Unfortunately, the ultra liberals and the ultra conservatives outweigh the moderates. Is that due more to not a lot of choice than by design, maybe if voters had a really viable choice they might feel it’s time to go for the middle ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, Palfy said: Is that due more to not a lot of choice than by design, maybe if voters had a really viable choice they might feel it’s time to go for the middle ground. It worked in France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Palfy said: Maybe normal was the wrong choice of word to use average may have been better, but from what you said there isn’t an average American either. We are getting from our media the wages have increased and more jobs have been created under Trump and your economy is doing really well. Its funny you should mention the two parties I’ve always felt there is room for a serious third party that pitch’s it self some were between Dems and Republicans. News to me on the wage increases: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ I wonder if your media is referring to minimum wage increases which generally occur on the state level, or to the federal increase which was an Obama carryover. Re:jobs: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/10/30/two-charts-show-trumps-job-gains-are-just-a-continuation-from-obamas-presidency/#40cfcaae1af3 And the economy is doing fine, despite Trump’s tariffs, etc. which could undermine growth. That said, there have been signs recently that it might be trending downward. I know you’re not trying to argue those points, but I do think we’re in an interesting reality if the British media is purporting great economic growth during the Trump era when it looks nearly identical to the economy under the last four years of Obama. I just don’t think that those are concerns that most voters in America really understand anymore. In my opinion, Trump and the GOP’s success in rural areas has more to do with his and their vitriol towards immigrants and the “other” generally than it has to do with any economic issues. Certainly, if the economy was floundering, we might be telling a different story, but its success is by no means propelling voters to remain supportive of him and is by no means the root of unhappiness with those of us who are vehemently against everything he represents. It’s very easy to see how a two party system has completely destroyed any semblance of true democracy in a country which allows so much monetary influence in its political system. Unfortunately, as long as we continue to allow parties and candidates to be so heavily funded by PACs and special interests, there’s really no alternative. As a New Yorker, I voted green in several state races where I knew I had no chance (and also knew the Republican had no chance), but garnering 1% of the vote doesn’t exactly instill the fear of god into either political party. 58 minutes ago, sibdane said: Unfortunately, the ultra liberals and the ultra conservatives outnumber the moderates. I think I tend to disagree on at least half of that point. I think most democrats are moderate. We are still a relatively conservative country politically, in regards to both social issues and economic issues, compared to most of Western Europe and even much of the Americas. I also think that the two parties in the U.S. share a lot more in common than not in their fundamental evaluations of how our political, social and economic systems should be structured, and that corporate influence has everything to do with their similitude. Edit: don’t know why the shift in font size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 54 minutes ago, Palfy said: Is that due more to not a lot of choice than by design, maybe if voters had a really viable choice they might feel it’s time to go for the middle ground. And no I think it’s precisely by design, as dictated by the influence of corporate $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, nyblue23 said: I think I tend to disagree on at least half of that point. I think most democrats are moderate. We are still a relatively conservative country politically, in regards to both social issues and economic issues, compared to most of Western Europe and even much of the Americas. I also think that the two parties in the U.S. share a lot more in common than not in their fundamental evaluations of how our political, social and economic systems should be structured, and that corporate influence has everything to do with their similitude. Edit: don’t know why the shift in font size. I'm sure most republicans think they're moderate and that democrats are the ones leaning further from the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 43 minutes ago, sibdane said: I'm sure most republicans think they're moderate and that democrats are the ones leaning further from the center. That may be true but through the scope of world politics it clearly doesn’t pan out that way. Today’s Republican Party is to the far right of the party of Reagan even, whereas the Democratic Party has remained centrist in nearly all matters besides a few social issues. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, nyblue23 said: That may be true but through the scope of world politics it clearly doesn’t pan out that way. Today’s Republican Party is to the far right of the party of Reagan even, whereas the Democratic Party has remained centrist in nearly all matters besides a few social issues. agreed that's why its laughable when FOx news and other joke media make out liberals to be some sort of far left communists when the party is barely even left. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 hours ago, nyblue23 said: a party can totally dominate the political system without even having a majority of voters behind it. I understand the need for the electoral college in the GE (as imperfect as it might be), but there's 4 supreme court judges now picked by two Presidents who didn't win the popular vote. Across the world the left march with pithy banners and placards, the right simply get into positions of power, legislate and stack the deck in their favour. markjazzbassist and nyblue23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Chach said: I understand the need for the electoral college in the GE (as imperfect as it might be), but there's 4 supreme court judges now picked by two Presidents who didn't win the popular vote. Across the world the left march with pithy banners and placards, the right simply get into positions of power, legislate and stack the deck in their favour. I understand that there was a need for the electoral college before globalization. Anymore, it’s just a ruse for the right to continue their dominance by duping rural people into voting for them by appealing to the worst of their fears while fucking them over economically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 16 hours ago, nyblue23 said: That may be true but through the scope of world politics it clearly doesn’t pan out that way. Today’s Republican Party is to the far right of the party of Reagan even, whereas the Democratic Party has remained centrist in nearly all matters besides a few social issues. The problem with Democrats is that they think they're superior and more righteous than Republicans. Democrats will always say that they remain centered when that's just not true. Both parties stray farther from the center every day. Both parties are fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 And shock... horror... repubs think the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, sibdane said: The problem with Democrats is that they think they're superior and more righteous than Republicans. Democrats will always say that they remain centered when that's just not true. Both parties stray farther from the center every day. Both parties are fucked. 1 hour ago, sibdane said: And shock... horror... repubs think the same. Still disagree with the middle sentence. I’m a registered Democrat, but hate both parties and am only so registered so I can vote for the candidate in primaries that is least like the others. That said, yes, Democrats are extremely self-righteous and it is a problem. The party can’t keep invalidating the concerns of rural and Southern whites and their constituents can’t keep calling them stupid, even when they see that many of their views are rooted in xenophobia. Still, with the exception of a few social issues (gay marriage, transgender rights), I think you’d find it a challenge to demonstrate that Democrats have moved demonstrably to the left over the last 30 years. I sure can’t. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, nyblue23 said: Still disagree with the middle sentence. I’m a registered Democrat, but hate both parties and am only so registered so I can vote for the candidate in primaries that is least like the others. That said, yes, Democrats are extremely self-righteous and it is a problem. The party can’t keep invalidating the concerns of rural and Southern whites and their constituents can’t keep calling them stupid, even when they see that many of their views are rooted in xenophobia. Still, with the exception of a few social issues (gay marriage, transgender rights), I think you’d find it a challenge to demonstrate that Democrats have moved demonstrably to the left over the last 30 years. I sure can’t. Okay, I can agree with that. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 41 minutes ago, sibdane said: Okay, I can agree with that. That’s very Democratic of you Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Palfy said: That’s very Democratic of you Just trying to do my part Pal. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 palfy thinks anyone who believes in democracy is a racist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, sibdane said: Just trying to do my part Pal. 1 hour ago, sibdane said: Just trying to do my part Pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, rubecula said: palfy thinks anyone who believes in democracy is a racist I was giving some recognition to sidbane for his wisdom to except someone else’s point of view, even though it wasn’t completely inline with his own political views that’s democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-army-trump-ww1-cemetery-visit-cancelled-rain-remembrance-armistice-a8630101.html Contrast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 The Onion, HIGNFY and Daily Mash have come out with some brilliant satirical pieces. I'm just annoyed they had the material to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 How dare you guys make fun of our president. Don't y'all know how precious his hair is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, sibdane said: How dare you guys make fun of our president. Don't y'all know how precious his hair is? Like all snowflakes, he'd just dissolve and be lost forever. Shame really.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Matt said: The Onion, HIGNFY and Daily Mash have come out with some brilliant satirical pieces. I'm just annoyed they had the material to work with. Love The Mash Report on TV, so clever and bloody hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Just now, MikeO said: Love The Mash Report on TV, so clever and bloody hilarious. Only saw a few extracts, nowhere near as good as the articles. Comes across as far too painful sometimes, even for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Just now, Matt said: Like all snowflakes, he'd just dissolve and be lost forever. Shame really.... 2020 is looking scary. I used to think he wouldn't make it this long; now I'm worried he'll win re-election. What is wrong with this country that I love so much? Oh yeah, bigots. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46198297 just read the tweets. I have no words. I’m finally dumbfounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Meanwhile.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46198987 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Interesting. Media taking on the establishment. First amendment be damned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 This is like a soap opera, not the government of the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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