Sean Dyche

[Sev]

"You’re getting paid a lot of money to help these players to win football games and you can change things."

"Dyche needs to look at himself and wonder why. Why is he always slow at starting? Why is he always playing catch-up?"

"Dyche stood there witnessing a collapse but he could have helped his players by making some decisions and making them faster."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/frustrated-everton-meltdown-what-sean-29854429

[Hafnia]

48 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

Thrilled that many in this message board know better than the manager or even the players who was the most tired.

I can actually smell the hindsight bias when I open this thread!

Yeah cos dyche is always right isn't he........ genius 

[Matt Tiger]

I didn’t say he was right. In fact I said he got it wrong. It’s just funny to me that everyone seems to know exactly who was the most tired.

[Hafnia]

29 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

I didn’t say he was right. In fact I said he got it wrong. It’s just funny to me that everyone seems to know exactly who was the most tired.

It wasn't hard..... did you not look at Tim literally blowing and misplacing his passes? Being exhausted doesn't just mean you can't run - your legs literally struggle to kick the ball properly.  See Coleman..... 

but yeah - take off a player who was still actually running at defenders and a striker winning fouls and holding up the ball and actually jumping for headers..... 

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

I didn’t say he was right. In fact I said he got it wrong. It’s just funny to me that everyone seems to know exactly who was the most tired.

That goes for Dyche as well, when asked why he had taken Ndiaye off he said I felt he was tired, no shit of course he was tired all 10 out field players were tired not just Ndiaye. 
Bournemouth threw on 5 subs that was fresh legs for 50% of the out field players, Iroala made the changes to win the game Dyche didn’t make the changes to stop them winning the game, even though he could smell it was going wrong, he made 2 subs but he made the wrong ones, yes they were tired but as I said all were tired. 
What Dyche didn’t do is evaluate who was still making a contribution tired or not and who wasn’t, and when the defenders were run off their feet especially Coleman and Mykolenko he never used any of the subs who could have fitted in and made a difference to the defence which was evident we needed to do, not take off Ndiaye and Dom who were still running and holding the ball up which was taking pressure on the defenders, he did the opposite took them off which added more pressure to the defence. 
The man is turning out to be a Ronald McDonald when it comes to game time decisions, and he’s on 5 million a year, he doesn’t deserve the wages to buy a happy meal

[Trigger]

1 hour ago, Sev said:

"You’re getting paid a lot of money to help these players to win football games and you can change things."

"Dyche needs to look at himself and wonder why. Why is he always slow at starting? Why is he always playing catch-up?"

"Dyche stood there witnessing a collapse but he could have helped his players by making some decisions and making them faster."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/frustrated-everton-meltdown-what-sean-29854429

Michael Ball nailed it again.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

 Mate they were dead on their legs - ever played to the point you are done? The ability to pass a ball accurately goes as well as the ability to run. It's a well known fact and something dyche well knows. 

dyche screamed at Tim after a misplaced pass - he was absolutely done in and yet he kept him on? 

coleman could barely clear a ball. Sorry mate you were miles off to start with and you are miles off still - the players ran themselves into the ground and you are picking on them for the awful choices the manager made. 

So because they got tired 70 minutes into the 3rd game of the season they're excused from not being able to pass to each other... Gotchya.

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

So because they got tired 70 minutes into the 3rd game of the season they're excused from not being able to pass to each other... Gotchya.

Let me help....

So because they completely outplayed and outworked the opponents over 70 minutes on a hot day and had a deserved 2 goal lead they required the manager to see that players like Tim could barely make a pass cos he was dead on his feet like a few others.  

when the opposition put 5 fresh pacey players on and our 30+ year old players were left on - literally unable to sprint or pass and move and he actually takes of two players who could relieve pressure - then he's ballsed up.

choosing a very strange hill here Matt. Slagging off players who ran themselves into the ground cos the manager can't manage a game. Michael ball is spot on

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095254616000247

 

 

 

 

[Wall Writer]

3 hours ago, Sev said:

"You’re getting paid a lot of money to help these players to win football games and you can change things."

"Dyche needs to look at himself and wonder why. Why is he always slow at starting? Why is he always playing catch-up?"

"Dyche stood there witnessing a collapse but he could have helped his players by making some decisions and making them faster."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/frustrated-everton-meltdown-what-sean-29854429

I agree with so much of what was written in that article

[Matt]

10 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Let me help....

So because they completely outplayed and outworked the opponents over 70 minutes on a hot day and had a deserved 2 goal lead they required the manager to see that players like Tim could barely make a pass cos he was dead on his feet like a few others.  

when the opposition put 5 fresh pacey players on and our 30+ year old players were left on - literally unable to sprint or pass and move and he actually takes of two players who could relieve pressure - then he's ballsed up.

choosing a very strange hill here Matt. Slagging off players who ran themselves into the ground cos the manager can't manage a game. Michael ball is spot on

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095254616000247

 

 

 

 

Thanka for the patronising tone. Let me help. Professional footballers with decades of experience can't pass a ball to each other is not the managers fault. Not very complicated really. 

Choosing a very strange hill to die on here, Haf. Basically you're saying any time a player gets tired now they're absolved of any fault whatsoever. I've not slagged anyone off, not named individuals because it'a a collective failure, one that I put firmly on the shoulders of the players and have since conceded that Dyche played a part. I'm saying professional footballers should be able to see through 90 mins. If it was the 3rd to last game, there'd be a bit more weight behind that tiredness arguement but still not 100%. Just to clarify, you believe that the players playing on the pitch played a 0% part of the game being lost in 10 minutes. I'll help you again, if the manager is 100% to blame, then they could've stood around with their dicks out and it would've been Dyches fault. Do you at least understand how fucking stupid that sounds even if you don't think it is? It is the equivalent of someone trying to convince me water is dry, it's that fucking stupid to me.

I'm just saying it's a combination of both and laughing harder each time you double down on the "100% on the manager" yet claim to be a balanced poster who doesn't get stuck on one thing so much so they're blind to basic common sense. It's the definition of hyperfocus! It's genuinely hilarious and I look forward to "he was probably tired, it's the managers fault" for the foreseeable every time a player makes a mistake and people jump on them. Or should I now assume if Dyche puts a sub on toward the end and the team wins, then he'll get 100% and pages of posts celebrating the manager? Of course not, it'll be the player who gets that recognition and maaaybe a dig at the manager for not bringing them on sooner or starting them in the first place. 

My initial post was meant as tongue in cheek because I knew what was coming on here. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Thanka for the patronising tone. Let me help. Professional footballers with decades of experience can't pass a ball to each other is not the managers fault. Not very complicated really. 

Choosing a very strange hill to die on here, Haf. Basically you're saying any time a player gets tired now they're absolved of any fault whatsoever. I've not slagged anyone off, not named individuals because it'a a collective failure, one that I put firmly on the shoulders of the players and have since conceded that Dyche played a part. I'm saying professional footballers should be able to see through 90 mins. If it was the 3rd to last game, there'd be a bit more weight behind that tiredness arguement but still not 100%. Just to clarify, you believe that the players playing on the pitch played a 0% part of the game being lost in 10 minutes. I'll help you again, if the manager is 100% to blame, then they could've stood around with their dicks out and it would've been Dyches fault. Do you at least understand how fucking stupid that sounds even if you don't think it is? It is the equivalent of someone trying to convince me water is dry, it's that fucking stupid to me.

I'm just saying it's a combination of both and laughing harder each time you double down on the "100% on the manager" yet claim to be a balanced poster who doesn't get stuck on one thing so much so they're blind to basic common sense. It's the definition of hyperfocus! It's genuinely hilarious and I look forward to "he was probably tired, it's the managers fault" for the foreseeable every time a player makes a mistake and people jump on them. Or should I now assume if Dyche puts a sub on toward the end and the team wins, then he'll get 100% and pages of posts celebrating the manager? Of course not, it'll be the player who gets that recognition and maaaybe a dig at the manager for not bringing them on sooner or starting them in the first place. 

My initial post was meant as tongue in cheek because I knew what was coming on here. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time

 

 

 

 

 

 

mine was tongue in cheek too....

Matt - if the players were to blame I'd be all over them, like I always am. 
 

They absolutely worked their backsides off and in sweltering weather. If you don't understand how accuracy, sharpness and ability to do basic functions falls when running on empty then I understand why you are insisting that pros should be able to pass a ball.

Fans were screaming at dyche from 70 minutes to get legs in midfield - not let's take off the two players who are actually taking pressure off the defence and midfield. 

Michael ball specifically said the same - he used examples from when he played. 

Bournemouth brought 5 fresh players on whilst we had 11 exhausted players who had outworked Bournemouth. He handed them all the momentum they needed.

on him - end of story. No matter how many times you say "I've said the manager has accountability but players blah blah blah" to give some sort of balance..... 

he had a 2-0 lead and the opponents made 5 subs when our midfield was gassed and he took off the 2 most impactful players who stopped Bournemouth getting higher up the pitch.  Spin it however you want - on him, and you and the 3 other people in the entire fanbase who think otherwise are wrong 

His substitutions and player selection in general has always been appalling. 

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

mine was tongue in cheek too....

Matt - if the players were to blame I'd be all over them, like I always am. 
 

They absolutely worked their backsides off and in sweltering weather. If you don't understand how accuracy, sharpness and ability to do basic functions falls when running on empty then I understand why you are insisting that pros should be able to pass a ball.

Fans were screaming at dyche from 70 minutes to get legs in midfield - not let's take off the two players who are actually taking pressure off the defence and midfield. 

Michael ball specifically said the same - he used examples from when he played. 

Bournemouth brought 5 fresh players on whilst we had 11 exhausted players who had outworked Bournemouth. He handed them all the momentum they needed.

on him - end of story. No matter how many times you say "I've said the manager has accountability but players blah blah blah" to give some sort of balance..... 

he had a 2-0 lead and the opponents made 5 subs when our midfield was gassed and he took off the 2 most impactful players who stopped Bournemouth getting higher up the pitch.  Spin it however you want - on him, and you and the 3 other people in the entire fanbase who think otherwise are wrong 

His substitutions and player selection in general has always been appalling. 

My bad then, apologies.

I'm not wrong, I just don't believe that Dyche is 100% culpable. I don't even think he carries the majority of the fault. But there's no point repeating things again

 

[Hafnia]

29 minutes ago, Matt said:

My bad then, apologies.

I'm not wrong, I just don't believe that Dyche is 100% culpable. I don't even think he carries the majority of the fault. But there's no point repeating things again

 

Ok he's 95% culpable. 

[Matt]

17 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Ok he's 95% culpable. 

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Ok he's 95% culpable. 

 

[Shukes]

20 hours ago, Matt Tiger said:

I didn’t say he was right. In fact I said he got it wrong. It’s just funny to me that everyone seems to know exactly who was the most tired.

I get what you’re saying, it’s the usual retrospect from fans.

Some saying Ndiaye should have stayed on, while others saying they were there and watched him signalling to the bench that he was exhausted. This is why I’ve been so quiet about it as I don’t actually know who’s right.

What I would say, is that with so little time to go, professional players should be able to sort themselves out and regroup after the first goal. That’s not on the manager, that’s squarely on the players on the pitch. I would expect a Sunday pub team to be able to perform basics, let alone a premier league team.

[Shukes]

18 hours ago, Matt said:

So because they got tired 70 minutes into the 3rd game of the season they're excused from not being able to pass to each other... Gotchya.

I played a 12 hour footballathon on the weekend to raise money for charity. 
Subs went on and off, but I got a special mention by the club for being able to do ten hours at age 51.

I struggled, but still managed to keep doing the basics. How those players were so gassed and lost all ability is embarrassing.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I played a 12 hour footballathon on the weekend to raise money for charity. 
Subs went on and off, but I got a special mention by the club for being able to do ten hours at age 51.

I struggled, but still managed to keep doing the basics. How those players were so gassed and lost all ability is embarrassing.

Congratulations mate

My hip cant get through 15 mins of exercise anymore and I'm only 41! 

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Congratulations mate

My hip cant get through 15 mins of exercise anymore and I'm only 41! 

Oh I’m hardly walking now mate haha and could aim water from a tap into a glass! But raised enough money to get the kids a new strip… so it was more than worth it. Don’t help that I was against a 22 year old Mike Woods that was released from Wolves for a long term injury. He basically guilted me into carrying on haha.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Oh I’m hardly walking now mate haha and could aim water from a tap into a glass! But raised enough money to get the kids a new strip… so it was more than worth it. Don’t help that I was against a 22 year old Mike Woods that was released from Wolves for a long term injury. He basically guilted me into carrying on haha.

That's fantastic! 

[Sev]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I played a 12 hour footballathon on the weekend to raise money for charity. 
Subs went on and off, but I got a special mention by the club for being able to do ten hours at age 51.

I struggled, but still managed to keep doing the basics. How those players were so gassed and lost all ability is embarrassing.

Good man, indeed.

But would also like to point out that a part is also mental tiredness. Combined with fatique it's deadly.

[Sev]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Congratulations mate

My hip cant get through 15 mins of exercise anymore and I'm only 41! 

Sorry to hear. You're so young!

When I played football (left midfield) I was great in the first half ... and the third Second half I totally lost concentration.

[Shukes]

40 minutes ago, Sev said:

Good man, indeed.

But would also like to point out that a part is also mental tiredness. Combined with fatique it's deadly.

Oh mate I was broken haha.

[Trigger]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

I get what you’re saying, it’s the usual retrospect from fans.

Some saying Ndiaye should have stayed on, while others saying they were there and watched him signalling to the bench that he was exhausted. This is why I’ve been so quiet about it as I don’t actually know who’s right.

What I would say, is that with so little time to go, professional players should be able to sort themselves out and regroup after the first goal. That’s not on the manager, that’s squarely on the players on the pitch. I would expect a Sunday pub team to be able to perform basics, let alone a premier league team.

I was with you until the Sunday Pub team...

In the past I must have played in VERY different pub teams to you. Getting 11 present at the sports club after the Saturday Night piss-up was a win in itself.

If you could get all 11 on the pitch without anyone throwing up in the changing room then you were performing management miracles!!

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

I played a 12 hour footballathon on the weekend to raise money for charity. 
Subs went on and off, but I got a special mention by the club for being able to do ten hours at age 51.

I struggled, but still managed to keep doing the basics. How those players were so gassed and lost all ability is embarrassing.

They weren’t playing table football

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

I played a 12 hour footballathon on the weekend to raise money for charity. 
Subs went on and off, but I got a special mention by the club for being able to do ten hours at age 51.

I struggled, but still managed to keep doing the basics. How those players were so gassed and lost all ability is embarrassing.

Well done. My only option would be subbuteo.

[MikeO]

45 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Well done. My only option would be subbuteo.

Fingers have feelings too.

[c1982]

2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Well done. My only option would be subbuteo.

I went to school with an England international… Subbuteo player!

[Gwlad]

(Very) well paid athletes should be in top form at the start of the season. Gassed after 80 minutes? Where is that marathon attitude, keep going, not long to go? And surely the mentality should be, we are 2-0 up, let's keep it that way. Players have a lot to answer for.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

From The Athletic today 

Sean Dyche has been here before. Many times. Historically, August has been a challenging month for the Evertonmanager.

His overall Premier League win rate of just over 28 per cent, also encompassing his decade-long stint at Burnley, drops to just 12 per cent in the first month of the season. That is the second lowest (better only than Neil Warnock’s one win in 10 games) of all those to have taken charge of a minimum of 10 English top-flight fixtures in August.

Statistical quirk or not, it is notable; particularly in the context of Everton’s start, which is almost identical to the one 12 months ago. For the second time in a year, Dyche’s side have started with three league defeats and a Carabao Cup victory over Doncaster Rovers.

There were choice words in Dyche’s direction from some of the supporters who headed for an early exit after the late collapse against Bournemouth when Everton were 2-0 up with three minutes of the 90 to go. It is always difficult to judge exactly where the middle ground is with a fanbase, particularly in the social media age where the loudest voices are often the most prominent, but there is genuine disgruntlement at how Everton have begun.

Results like Saturday’s matter. They matter because fans are tired after witnessing three successive relegation battles and were hoping for signs this season could be different. They matter to Dyche and his players because nine minutes of carnage at the end completely undermined 87 minutes of positivity.

On days like these, the emotional, knee-jerk reaction is to assume Everton are never going to drag themselves out of the large hole they have found themselves in over the last three years. As I noted onThe Athletic Football Podcast this week, fans are tired of being the fall guys, the whipping boys. The butt of all the jokes.

It is impossible to look at this start in isolation. Rather, it should be seen as part of an amorphous blob where seasons blend into each other and the same events keep happening on a loop.

 

It is for that reason, coupled with the nature of the other defeats to Brighton & Hove Albion and Tottenham Hotspur — Everton failed to score in either game, and conceded seven — that this start to the season seems to have hit hardest of all. A sense of collective fatigue has set in.

Go back even three weeks and there was genuine optimism. A sense that, even in tight financial circumstances, Everton had added a sprinkle of attacking quality to their strong spine.

Much of that has now been eroded, even if there is the odd cause for optimism. Iliman Ndiaye, anyone?

Dyche’s role in all of this remains intriguing. Whatever the reasons for his historical slow starts — the most obvious, albeit unproven theory here seems to be that a gruelling pre-season, heavy on running, has taken a toll — Everton have looked undercooked technically, tactically and physically.

Summer signings have been eased in out of choice and injuries have bitten. There were times in Saturday’s game where, with five replacements on the pitch, Bournemouth consistently ran through a visibly tiring Everton team.

Dyche’s football, at its best, is functional and capable of achieving bottom lines as a minimum. It will rarely be loved, or grant him the kind of extra grace afforded even to his less successful predecessor Frank Lampard. When results are bad, fans tend to lose patience quicker.

The problem is that Everton have not exhibited the traits you would expect from a usual Dyche team: defensive solidity, compact structure and set-piece dominance.

One of the best defensive units in the league last season has, with minimal upheaval, shipped the most goals (10). Failings have been widespread. There have been high-profile errors from senior players — Jordan Pickford and Idrissa Gueye to name two — and collective moments of amnesia. Dyche has been unable to change the course of games slipping away.

The manager rightly pointed out on Saturday that the responsibility for poor results rests on his shoulders. He also spoke about how “the noise had changed” for his players, seemingly suggesting that the outside focus on the club was impacting performances. “They are human beings,” he stressed.

Three games in and there is a notion that Everton are the Premier League’s crisis club — if there is even such a thing after only three games.

It was notable that one UK national newspaper at Saturday’s game chose to reference the “chatter” at Goodison surrounding former Everton manager David Moyes, now unemployed after leaving West Ham United at the end of the season, and the “long shadow he casts over the beleaguered Dyche”.

The reality is that almost nobody inside Everton thinks another managerial change is what the club need right now, as they seek a semblance of stability.

There is obvious disappointment but Dyche has ample credit in the bank for navigating last season’s points deductions and everything that came with them. Most would acknowledge he has had to work on a tighter budget than just about all of his peers, and that they would almost certainly be looking for a manager with his track record of surviving relegation if they ever decided to make a change.

There is an acceptance that results have not been good enough but confidence that they will improve once key players are back and new signings have properly bedded in. There is belief that they have more than enough to survive, particularly with more than 92 per cent of the season remaining.

The absence of Jarrad Branthwaite, who underwent surgery on a long-standing groin complaint over the summer, has weighed heavily. He was seen behind the scenes as the player who, once introduced to the team, added the most extra value last season.

The centre-back should be back sometime in September, and his return will provide a major boost to a fragile-looking defence.

 

Others, too, have looked short of match fitness and should improve in time.

The Athletic detailed before the start of the campaign how 13 Everton players had missed some of pre-season. Goalkeeper Pickford only returned from England duty to play in the final friendly against Roma, James Tarkowski struggled with a glute problem and Vitalii Mykolenko attempted to overcome a persistent ankle injury. As preparation goes, it was far from ideal.

There are moments that have provided cause for optimism, even if they have not outweighed the negativity. The first half against Brighton, an improved showing against Doncaster where new signings Ndiaye, Jesper Lindstrom and Jake O’Brien impressed, and the first 87 minutes against Bournemouth, considered to be among the most dominant football of Dyche’s tenure.

Tim Iroegbunam and Ndiaye have caught the eye. The side is exhibiting more creativity since Ndiaye, the Senegalforward, came into the side and Dwight McNeil moved inside. The surprise has been that Everton’s problems were the other way around last season. Their strength, defensive solidity, has been a weakness.

Perhaps the international break comes at a good time for Dyche, his players and fans. It offers the opportunity to pause and assess what is going wrong, to get players closer to fitness and reset.

Key will be learning some of the lessons from the past month, accepting mistakes have been made, failings have been widespread and correcting them.

Despite a bruising start, Dyche will be backed — and will back himself — to steady the ship once again.