Sean Dyche

[RuffRob]

18 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

Well, I would’ve started Ndiaye, but I certainly don’t expect Dyche to make decisions based upon the crowds reaction. I expect him to make decisions based upon the likelihood of the side generating results. 

Its not about making decisions on crowd reactions or what the fans want, It's about making the most everything - crowd atmosphere is massive in a home game, and a curtain raiser is a big game - Like I said, there are a few free hits in trying new players and new team set ups at the very beginning of the season with said new players. You get a period of grace to mix it up a bit, and instead he choose what he deamed the safest option.

They say fortune favours the brave - Saturday was one of the best opertunity Dyche would have had at being a little more brave with some of the new signings.  Last seasons big big problem was lack of goals and at least an attempt to play a more offensive Ndiaye in this game was warranted - he's been here for the whole pre-season, so should have been in the starting line up for a home game against Brighton. 

If he'd have had a stinker of a game then so be it - Doucoure had a bit of a skinker in anycase, and by no means his first poor game at Goodison, he's nowhere near being an undroppable player. 

[Gwlad]

6 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Dyche should have read the room a lot better and started Ndiaye - New players (especially those with a bit of trickery about them), will have just given fans on the season curtain raiser that little bit extra to cheers about.

A bit like when you see newly promoted teams punch above their weigth in the first few weeks of the season, new players can be the same as they are super pumped up to put in a good performance, but they have to be at least on the pitch to do this.

 

Exactly.

[Palfy]

13 hours ago, Matt Tiger said:

Mina fair enough. Branthwaite was new to the setup and hadn't played with Tarkowski, just like O'Brien, and he started in week 3 last year. I would imagine we'll see the same for O'Brien unless JB comes back by then. 

But why wait to week 3 is it another case of he has to shit the bed before he realises his own mistakes. 

[Matt Tiger]

10 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But why wait to week 3 is it another case of he has to shit the bed before he realises his own mistakes. 

No, it’s a case of young players take some time to get comfortable. It doesn’t do our chances or the player any good to put him into the lineup if he’s not comfortable yet with the system or his teammates. 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

No, it’s a case of young players take some time to get comfortable. It doesn’t do our chances or the player any good to put him into the lineup if he’s not comfortable yet with the system or his teammates. 

He’s had a full preseason he played well in the friendlies and he’s 23 and not classed as a young player, in football if you are good enough you are old enough. 
So in your view Brainthwaite should never have gotten his chance over Keane for the reasons you mentioned, he was far too young and he didn’t know the system, plus he wasn’t involved in pre-season due to injury or international competition I can’t remember but one of those. 
Imo you are making lame excuses for a manager who has no vision of how to improve a team, because he constantly reverts back to the old guard which doesn’t work rather than trust the new players to deliver something different. 
I can imagine when that team was announced Brighton were more than happy and many Everton fans were disappointed.  

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

He’s had a full preseason he played well in the friendlies and he’s 23 and not classed as a young player, in football if you are good enough you are old enough. 
So in your view Brainthwaite should never have gotten his chance over Keane for the reasons you mentioned, he was far too young and he didn’t know the system, plus he wasn’t involved in pre-season due to injury or international competition I can’t remember but one of those. 
Imo you are making lame excuses for a manager who has no vision of how to improve a team, because he constantly reverts back to the old guard which doesn’t work rather than trust the new players to deliver something different. 
I can imagine when that team was announced Brighton were more than happy and many Everton fans were disappointed.  

Except for the fact he has season after season

In my opinion, you just don't like the guy because you don't like the football and no amount of fact and patience will change your head. Which I find very sad and a fundamental cause of why Everton struggles. 

We've gone from penultimate and last game survival games that would've bankrupted the club to being not far off Europe despite 8 points taken off and a long winless streak. That is a massive improvement but nooooo, "it's not pretty enough" or "it's not what I want to see"... If you saw kids talking like that you'd think what fucking spoilt brats.

[Romey 1878]

Not sure why people keep using the Branthwaite situation as a stick to beat Dyche with tbh - he came back late after a tournament with the U21s and with a slight injury niggle.

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Not sure why people keep using the Branthwaite situation as a stick to beat Dyche with tbh - he came back late after a tournament with the U21s and with a slight injury niggle.

A niggle that made him miss two weeks of pre-season, even after that late arrival. Dyche even said at the time he will get his chance when hes fit. And he did. Weirdly people think he begrudged playing Branthwaite for 30+ games last season.

But it doesnt suit the weird narrative that Dyche loves to play Michael Keane.

The same Michael Keane with ten months left on his contract, who Dyche hasnt extended in the last two years.

 

I'd have played O'Brien though.

[Hafnia]

Branthwaite actually played the second half of the last pre season game vs sporting (before we opened against Fulham) last  season and was arguably one of our best players - Tarkowski got a knock in that game and recovered but Dyche started Keane. Branthwaite had gyokeres in his pocket. 

Similar to what we are seeing now. Branthwaite was on the bench for the first two games of last season...... I don't believe for one second he was carrying a knock.  He coasted through the game vs sporting and was dropped. 
 

If he was carrying a knock then why play him in a friendly the week before season kicks off? 

[Matt Tiger]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

He’s had a full preseason he played well in the friendlies and he’s 23 and not classed as a young player, in football if you are good enough you are old enough. 
So in your view Brainthwaite should never have gotten his chance over Keane for the reasons you mentioned, he was far too young and he didn’t know the system, plus he wasn’t involved in pre-season due to injury or international competition I can’t remember but one of those. 
Imo you are making lame excuses for a manager who has no vision of how to improve a team, because he constantly reverts back to the old guard which doesn’t work rather than trust the new players to deliver something different. 
I can imagine when that team was announced Brighton were more than happy and many Everton fans were disappointed.  

Yes that's what I said. I would've NEVER given Branthwaite the chance. Poor JB would've telling his grandkids what could've been had he only gotten the chance.

O'Brien has been with the team for three weeks and 23 absolutely is young in the football world. I think allowing a 23 year old who's joined the team from a different league three weeks ago a little time to settle before throwing him into the side is perfectly reasonable. 

As I said, I probably would've started O'Brien, and I think it's fair to say you wanted to see a younger and more interesting option on the pitch. But acting like this was some managerial travesty is insane imo. 

[Hafnia]

Ah the importance of  premier league experience and all that? 
 

minteh has no prem experience and gave mykolenko a torrid time -  wieffer another one..... hinshelwood only 13 appearances aged 19..... 

Fabian hurzeler had no prem experience and gave mega experienced Dyche a lesson. 

Dyche and his need for experience eh.... 

[Palfy]

9 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

But acting like this was some managerial travesty is insane imo. 

We lost 3-0 at home first game of the season starting only one of the new signings and he wouldn’t have started if Onana hadn’t left, then we go 2-0 down with a man sent off before we make changes, that’s more managerial travesty than managerial excellence. 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, Matt said:

Except for the fact he has season after season

In my opinion, you just don't like the guy because you don't like the football and no amount of fact and patience will change your head. Which I find very sad and a fundamental cause of why Everton struggles. 

We've gone from penultimate and last game survival games that would've bankrupted the club to being not far off Europe despite 8 points taken off and a long winless streak. That is a massive improvement but nooooo, "it's not pretty enough" or "it's not what I want to see"... If you saw kids talking like that you'd think what fucking spoilt brats.

Your right I don’t like him or his style of football, and the fact he’s the present that keeps giving with his poor decisions doesn’t make me a fucking spoilt brat or anyone else that doesn’t like what they see, so let’s put the boot on the other foot, I consider anyone who thinks he’s doing a good job is easily pleased in a needy in a I want to be liked type of way. 
Does that sound like anyone you know who likes him, no it doesn’t just as anyone who doesn’t like him isn’t a spoilt brat. 

[Tonsta]

Again we start the i hate SD thread again, in the real world, we have a toxic club, no owners, impossible for any new owners to come in, because we have dodgy loans all over the place, with very dubious people, our present owner is clueless and dangerous and would put us in bed with any one as long as he gets his money.

I don't agree with a lot of things SD has done, some of his team selection baffles me, young and keane in particular, but to suggest Braithwaite was dropped makes no sense.

Again the man is working with both hands tied behind his back, and a nail in his boot.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Branthwaite actually played the second half of the last pre season game vs sporting (before we opened against Fulham) last  season and was arguably one of our best players - Tarkowski got a knock in that game and recovered but Dyche started Keane. Branthwaite had gyokeres in his pocket. 

Similar to what we are seeing now. Branthwaite was on the bench for the first two games of last season...... I don't believe for one second he was carrying a knock.  He coasted through the game vs sporting and was dropped. 
 

If he was carrying a knock then why play him in a friendly the week before season kicks off? 

But the reason he didn’t start was because he was in pre season late, and then when he was he missed two weeks of it. He wasn’t carrying a knock when the season started, the knock made him miss those two weeks of training when he returned. So he wasn’t fit enough to start. When he was fit enough he started and then carried on playing every week. 
This is old ground. 

Playing half a friendly during preseason is not the same as being fit to start a premier league game. But you know that. 

[Palfy]

In this Ist round of PL games 50 players who were 22.3 years old or younger played for their first teams, that number would go up significantly if we used O’Brien’s age and under. 
Thought I would mention this just to dispel any confusion or doubts that O’Brien isn’t ready because of doubts over his age. 

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

In this Ist round of PL games 50 players who were 22.3 years old or younger played for their first teams, that number would go up significantly if we used O’Brien’s age and under. 
Thought I would mention this just to dispel any confusion or doubts that O’Brien isn’t ready because of doubts over his age. 

I don’t think anyone has doubts over O’Brien at all. 

[Palfy]

Just now, StevO said:

I don’t think anyone has doubts over O’Brien at all. 

Well Dyche seems to. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

But the reason he didn’t start was because he was in pre season late, and then when he was he missed two weeks of it. He wasn’t carrying a knock when the season started, the knock made him miss those two weeks of training when he returned. So he wasn’t fit enough to start. When he was fit enough he started and then carried on playing every week. 
This is old ground. 

Playing half a friendly during preseason is not the same as being fit to start a premier league game. But you know that. 

Yet Tarkowski played against Fulham with a knock.... Branthwaite played second half and looked superb. Outmuscled gyokeres and had him in his pocket...... he was ready. Simple as that.

Man of the match for many and tipped to start vs Fulham - but we know that doesn't happen. 

[Gwlad]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Ah the importance of  premier league experience and all that? 
 

minteh has no prem experience and gave mykolenko a torrid time -  wieffer another one..... hinshelwood only 13 appearances aged 19..... 

Fabian hurzeler had no prem experience and gave mega experienced Dyche a lesson. 

Dyche and his need for experience eh.... 

I won't bash Dyche as I agree with Tonsta he has his hands tied. Limited finance, no stability at the top of the club, a manager with lesser mental strength could well have walked away.

100% agree with Haf's post though.

[Goodison Glory]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

I don’t think anyone has doubts over O’Brien at all. 

I read somewhere quoting Dyche (BBC Sport I think) that O'Brien had told Dyche he didn't feel ready (or words to those effect)...seemed implausible to me at the time....but who knows.

[Hafnia]

28 minutes ago, Gwlad said:

I won't bash Dyche as I agree with Tonsta he has his hands tied. Limited finance, no stability at the top of the club, a manager with lesser mental strength could well have walked away.

100% agree with Haf's post though.

£100k a week is a lot to walk away from though 

[Goodison Glory]

Dyche has done a good job for the club under the worst circumstances we have ever known....and that is in spite of his supposed favourtism.

Yet, he dropped a bollock on Saturday for reasons others have already mentioned and he should be man enough to hold his hands up and say he got something wrong....but he doesn't...that's the biggest gripe from me.

 

[Trigger]

Michael Ball's write-up after the Brighton match nailed it for me.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/left-everton-game-early-what-29769211?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I think Dyche has done amazing job, but his belidgerance and repeated faith in Young does my head in.

[StevO]

38 minutes ago, Trigger said:

 

I think Dyche has done amazing job, but his belidgerance and repeated faith in Young does my head in.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but who would you have picked instead of Young at right back?

[Matt]

14 hours ago, Palfy said:

Your right I don’t like him or his style of football, and the fact he’s the present that keeps giving with his poor decisions doesn’t make me a fucking spoilt brat or anyone else that doesn’t like what they see, so let’s put the boot on the other foot, I consider anyone who thinks he’s doing a good job is easily pleased in a needy in a I want to be liked type of way. 
Does that sound like anyone you know who likes him, no it doesn’t just as anyone who doesn’t like him isn’t a spoilt brat. 

Consider away. If you don't think he's doing a good job pulling us away from the brink of potentially catastrophic relegation, whilst having fuck all money to play with, points deductions, a broken (mentally and physically) over paid squad, an exhausted,  impatient, frustrated fanbase and finishing in the same position as the great De Zebri and BHA (who had some of the best talent on and off field, tons of money, fantastic owners) last season... That's not good? I'd consider anyone who doesn't acknowledge that as massive, positive progress utterly clueless unless it's just because it's not pretty and trophy successful in which case, yeah, spoilt brat because you've seen the glory days making unrealistic comparisons and I grew up with Mike Walker and Walter Smith and this all feels so familiar.

He's the one manager who agreed to come into this shit show of a club and actually delivered improvement by dragging the squad up the table. That's why he's doing a good job. It's not pretty by any means and he's far from perfect and he does drive me nuts quite often. But he has absolutely proven he is the right man for the time and circumstances and so he's got credit in the bank for now. More than we can say about anything else  he's good enough for now.

When he's got the club stable again, along with KT who's also worked some wonders but had misses too, and he's proven that even with a decent squad and the new stadium (which will be his undoing, October next season he's gone is my guess) etc he can't progress further, he will have my gratitude and good wishes for the future. But until then, mistakes and all, hes all we've got because we can't afford to sack him and his staff anyway

 

 

[Trigger]

9 hours ago, StevO said:

I don’t necessarily disagree, but who would you have picked instead of Young at right back?

Given that I wouldn't have extended Young's contract under any conditions, I would have played Dixon if we absolutely had to play 4 at the back for tactical reasons.

However, I probably would have played 5 at the back and had McNeil/Harrison/Lindstrom as wingbacks.

With Brighton I would have had a high press on for most of the match and prepared to sub the front players at about 60mins to sustain it. 

 

[StevO]

15 minutes ago, Trigger said:

Given that I wouldn't have extended Young's contract under any conditions, I would have played Dixon if we absolutely had to play 4 at the back for tactical reasons.

However, I probably would have played 5 at the back and had McNeil/Harrison/Lindstrom as wingbacks.

With Brighton I would have had a high press on for most of the match and prepared to sub the front players at about 60mins to sustain it. 

 

I disagree, as until about two months ago Dixon was barely around the first team (and think putting him up against Mitoma would have been bad for him) and I hate five at the back, even more so when squeezing players in who are out of position. But I respect your opinion on it and I don’t have an alternative. 

[RuffRob]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

Consider away. If you don't think he's doing a good job pulling us away from the brink of potentially catastrophic relegation, whilst having fuck all money to play with, points deductions, a broken (mentally and physically) over paid squad, an exhausted,  impatient, frustrated fanbase and finishing in the same position as the great De Zebri and BHA (who had some of the best talent on and off field, tons of money, fantastic owners) last season... That's not good? I'd consider anyone who doesn't acknowledge that as massive, positive progress utterly clueless unless it's just because it's not pretty and trophy successful in which case, yeah, spoilt brat because you've seen the glory days making unrealistic comparisons and I grew up with Mike Walker and Walter Smith and this all feels so familiar.

He's the one manager who agreed to come into this shit show of a club and actually delivered improvement by dragging the squad up the table. That's why he's doing a good job. It's not pretty by any means and he's far from perfect and he does drive me nuts quite often. But he has absolutely proven he is the right man for the time and circumstances and so he's got credit in the bank for now. More than we can say about anything else  he's good enough for now.

When he's got the club stable again, along with KT who's also worked some wonders but had misses too, and he's proven that even with a decent squad and the new stadium (which will be his undoing, October next season he's gone is my guess) etc he can't progress further, he will have my gratitude and good wishes for the future. But until then, mistakes and all, hes all we've got because we can't afford to sack him and his staff anyway

 

 

I think this somes it up nicely - Dyche is very much the stready Eddy type, so has been exactely what the club has needed this past few seasons. The fact he is still manager after 18months thankfully is bucking recent manager trends!!! 

As frustrating as some aspects of his management are, I wouldn't mind another steady season - I happily take managerial stability until new owners in the door, and we have the keys (and revenues) of the new stadium. 

But desisions like Saturday's will make it harder for fans to support him in being offered a new deal to take the club in to it's next phase - Saftey from relegation is still very much the main goal of this season, but 18months in Dyche does now need to have at least one eye on 'progressing' both himself and the team. If he does want to remain the Everton manager beyond this season, he will need show that he has a least the desire to 'up' the way we play. I feel Saturday was a bit of a opertunity missed by him to just show a bit more ambision on the pitch. If they players not 100% on it then so be it, he can always say after them match they need a little more game time, prem experience etc  - but this will come.  

Out of nessesity, stability, steady and safe hands will still suit me until we are nailed on safe this season. Beyond that, a better produce will be required. 

[Trigger]

On 21/08/2024 at 08:03, StevO said:

I disagree, as until about two months ago Dixon was barely around the first team (and think putting him up against Mitoma would have been bad for him) and I hate five at the back, even more so when squeezing players in who are out of position. But I respect your opinion on it and I don’t have an alternative. 

You're wrong @StevO and. can you please f*ck off with your opinion....

Edited August 22 by Trigger
Mike told me to do it