Rafael Benitez

[Cornish Steve]

21 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

So, who was the right choice?

We discussed this at length in the weeks before the announcement.

[RuffRob]

5 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

We discussed this at length in the weeks before the announcement

A lot has changed at the club since then, so you seem to keep ducking the queation? - if you dumped Benitez now, which you seem to champion  - who would want to come to manage us?

StevO admits he has no idea who would be better at this moment in time and lives in hope that some of the 'staff' behind the scenes at the club might now somehow have the answer.

Its piss easy to rip holes in this that and the other, but not so easy come up come up with realistic solutions.

[StevO]

9 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

A lot has changed at the club since then, so you seem to keep ducking the queation? - if you dumped Benitez now, which you seem to champion  - who would want to come to manage us?

StevO admits he has no idea who would be better at this moment in time and lives in hope that some of the 'staff' behind the scenes at the club might now somehow have the answer.

Its piss easy to rip holes in this that and the other, but not so easy come up come up with realistic solutions.

Rob, if I fall over tomorrow and break my leg it will hurt like fuck. I’ll know it’s a problem, but I won’t know how to fix it. So I’ll go to a place that employs experts who know more than me, I will know full well there is an issue with my leg, but unfortunately I have limited knowledge of how to make it better. I’d hope a football club who should be run by experts in the field would do a better job recruiting a football manager than someone who has never worked in the game like me. Because I don’t know who we should hire to replace him shouldn’t determine if I think he should stay or go. I know Coleman needs replacing but I don’t know any right backs who should come in. I watch Everton, no one else. So I’ve no encyclopaedic knowledge to bring options to the table. I know what shit football looks like though. 
 

My comment on who should find a replacement was a tongue in cheek nod towards Brands, as Farhad, Bill and Denise might run the club but I have little faith in them finding the right option. But at the point this all does come to its inevitable miserable end, and it will, there isn’t a happy ending for Rafa at Everton, these people will need to find a replacement. 
 

Reminder, I’m still not saying he needs to go, yet. But there has to be a point for every manager where the results dictate the end of the line. 

[RuffRob]

I don't disagree that it is likley to be an unhappy ending, but just as likey this will to be down to unaccepting fans as anything else. 

But that does not change the fact that at this momnet in time we are not an attractive club right now to managers. 

If you are a manager and doing well somewhere are you going to jack in your job to come here at this moment in time? Shamble of a board, trigger happy owner, and peanuts of a transfer kitty?

Don't do yourself down, we fans are bright enough to come up with a few names of candidates that we think would be better than Benitez at this very moment? But given we are pretty skint I am at a loss of who we would realisitically attract and would be less risky than Benitez.

 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, StevO said:

Rob, if I fall over tomorrow and break my leg it will hurt like fuck. I’ll know it’s a problem, but I won’t know how to fix it. So I’ll go to a place that employs experts who know more than me, I will know full well there is an issue with my leg, but unfortunately I have limited knowledge of how to make it better. I’d hope a football club who should be run by experts in the field would do a better job recruiting a football manager than someone who has never worked in the game like me. Because I don’t know who we should hire to replace him shouldn’t determine if I think he should stay or go. I know Coleman needs replacing but I don’t know any right backs who should come in. I watch Everton, no one else. So I’ve no encyclopaedic knowledge to bring options to the table. I know what shit football looks like though. 
 

My comment on who should find a replacement was a tongue in cheek nod towards Brands, as Farhad, Bill and Denise might run the club but I have little faith in them finding the right option. But at the point this all does come to its inevitable miserable end, and it will, there isn’t a happy ending for Rafa at Everton, these people will need to find a replacement. 
 

Reminder, I’m still not saying he needs to go, yet. But there has to be a point for every manager where the results dictate the end of the line. 

But these people you rightly mention have got it so wrong so many times. Let’s use your analogy that you’ve broken your leg and you go to Everton FC hospital and the doctors and administrators are those you have mentioned, you are more likely to hop out of that hospital with both arms in plaster and a full castration plus your bum whole being sown up than your leg being fixed, so what would you do then you would sue for negligence and they would be struck off. My point being stop constantly sacking managers appointed by the same people who sack them, and  come together to get rid of the biggest problem in the club the owner and his board, sacking Benitez isn’t going to change a thing or stop the direction this club is going this clubs problems are well above the remit of any of the managers we’ve had and any of the many managers at this rate going forward, but to keep constantly shouting for managers heads is allowing the idiots to drive this club further into the ground we need to be shouting for the owner and the boards head if we want things to change. Now go get your arsehole sown up your bollocks cut off and your arms put in plaster your leg must be killing you, and whilst your recovering you can if they can beat their record of more than 6 managers in 6 years

[StevO]

41 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But these people you rightly mention have got it so wrong so many times. Let’s use your analogy that you’ve broken your leg and you go to Everton FC hospital and the doctors and administrators are those you have mentioned, you are more likely to hop out of that hospital with both arms in plaster and a full castration plus your bum whole being sown up than your leg being fixed, so what would you do then you would sue for negligence and they would be struck off. My point being stop constantly sacking managers appointed by the same people who sack them, and  come together to get rid of the biggest problem in the club the owner and his board, sacking Benitez isn’t going to change a thing or stop the direction this club is going this clubs problems are well above the remit of any of the managers we’ve had and any of the many managers at this rate going forward, but to keep constantly shouting for managers heads is allowing the idiots to drive this club further into the ground we need to be shouting for the owner and the boards head if we want things to change. Now go get your arsehole sown up your bollocks cut off and your arms put in plaster your leg must be killing you, and whilst your recovering you can if they can beat their record of more than 6 managers in 6 years

Maybe they did this time too? 

[Sibdane]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

My point being stop constantly sacking managers appointed by the same people who sack them,

This right here. I don’t see the point in sacking Benitez(at the moment), partly because I don’t trust ownership to pick a better replacement. Every single one of our managers has been a dud in recent history, and that includes Carlo too. 

[RuffRob]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Maybe they did this time too? 

maybe they did, but we don't really know yet after only a few months and a terrible injury crisis over the past two months. Maybe the one after Benitez might not work either. Maybe Ancelotti might have done better this season if he hadn't run for the hills.  Maybe if we change the manager every 6 months one might work.

Benitez got it spot on in his last press conference - you can't sort out 5years of mismanagement in 5 months.  Neither him nor anybody else. This team needs unpicking and essentially rebuilding. I know some demand and want to instant improvement, but that has been our owners problem over the past 5 years - no patients. Any sort of change takes time and the road is going to be rough not smooth. 

We are not one of the big clubs that has strength in depth of playing talent that a new manager can just come in and juggle about with a system, approach and mentality and get them all playing as a unit. pulling in another £20M player here and there. 

We are a light on numbers and quality rag tag squad of second and third tier players put together by ten or so different people pulling in different directions. So much needs sorting with the team, and not silly money to do it - which actually might be a blessing., as so many have come here simply for big paydays in the recent past. 

 

 

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

My point being stop constantly sacking managers appointed by the same people who sack them

You raise an interesting point. We had a Director of Football, supposedly responsible for recruitment of manager and players. Don't give up on this but give that person 100 percent responsibility for hiring. But... if the manager fails to meet pre-agreed results, both the manager and the DoF lose their job. In other words, have the person making the recruitment decision just as responsible as the manager for the team's success.

[DownUnderToff]

5 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

We are not one of the big clubs that has strength in depth of playing talent that a new manager can just come in and juggle about with a system, approach and mentality and get them all playing as a unit. pulling in another £20M player here and there. 

We are a light on numbers and quality rag tag squad of second and third tier players put together by ten or so different people pulling in different directions. So much needs sorting with the team, and not silly money to do it - which actually might be a blessing., as so many have come here simply for big paydays in the recent past. 

Good reasons why we shouldn't be/have been chasing a "name" manager. 

We need a manager who is used to the challenge of building with limited resources.  Graham Potter probably a great fit, has a mentality of improving players and people as well.  Doubtful we've got the pull to pry him right now though.

[Palfy]

33 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

You raise an interesting point. We had a Director of Football, supposedly responsible for recruitment of manager and players. Don't give up on this but give that person 100 percent responsibility for hiring. But... if the manager fails to meet pre-agreed results, both the manager and the DoF lose their job. In other words, have the person making the recruitment decision just as responsible as the manager for the team's success.

Now I like that maybe more thought would go into making decisions if more people stood to lose if it goes wrong. 

 

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Maybe they did this time too? 

Maybe but when do you say enough is enough and give a manager of Benitez stature a fair crack of the whip, instead of the constant hiring and firing which has cost us over half a billion and left us in a far worse position as a team. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, DownUnderToff said:

Good reasons why we shouldn't be/have been chasing a "name" manager. 

We need a manager who is used to the challenge of building with limited resources.  Graham Potter probably a great fit, has a mentality of improving players and people as well.  Doubtful we've got the pull to pry him right now though.

I like Potter but he gets very upset when the crowd boo, so he can never be an Everton manager.

[StevO]

36 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Maybe but when do you say enough is enough and give a manager of Benitez stature a fair crack of the whip, instead of the constant hiring and firing which has cost us over half a billion and left us in a far worse position as a team. 

I think every manager we’ve had has had a fair crack of the wip, and been fired when they haven’t performed. I don’t think any of us think that Silva, Koeman or Martinez should have been given more time. They all needed to go. 

Benitez is getting a fair crack of the wip, Moshiri won’t sack him, but as I’ve said before there has to be a point where a change happens. For me it’s if we drop into the bottom three.
I keep hearing that these same players have under performed for so many different managers now, but this run of form is worse than I remember under any of the previous. Even when we were shit under Carlo at the end of last season, this run is awful.
I just expected better from a man who claims to improve players as he’s such a good coach and teacher. Not one of our players has improved yet.
I hope he’s a success because we need stability, but he needs to beat Burnley and Newcastle, these players should be good enough for that. But they should have been good enough to beat Watford and Brentford too. Yerry Mina and DCL aren’t going to change much for us. 
Rafa isn’t the only problem, but he’s very much one of them. 

[Palfy]

18 minutes ago, StevO said:

Yerry Mina and DCL aren’t going to change much for us. 
Rafa isn’t the only problem, but he’s very much one of them. 

A team is the sum of it’s parts and when we have all the parts in the right place at the same time we can then make a better judgment. Let’s get as close as possible to having DCL, Richarlison, Gray, Townsend, Doucoure, Allan, Coleman, Mina, Keane and Godfrey on the pitch at the same time, when we had more of the key players playing at the beginning of the season the results were far better, but hopefully Benitez has learnt from the Chelsea game that we have a few young lads who can be trusted to come in and cover the senior players, instead of shoe horning players into positions they don’t play and playing players who shouldn’t be in an Everton shirt. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

I like Potter but he gets very upset when the crowd boo, so he can never be an Everton manager.

They haven't won in 11 games themselves, so he's hardly doing well.

[Harv]

On 16/12/2021 at 12:36, Aidan said:

I'm not sure what people think Rafa is going to do in a couple of transfer windows with absolutely nothing to spend. It might not be too bad if we could offload some of the dross we have at the club - but we all know thats not going to happen.

Very true and that scenario would be the case for who ever was at our particular wheel.

As you rightly point out, if we can't spend. Next best unload a couple, need to hang on to some. Just to put a side out as awful as they are.

We are well and truly snookered for this season and may be next.

I'll go and pour a drink.

Cheers.

 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, Harv said:

Very true and that scenario would be the case for who ever was at our particular wheel.

As you rightly point out, if we can't spend. Next best unload a couple, need to hang on to some. Just to put a side out as awful as they are.

We are well and truly snookered for this season and may be next.

I'll go and pour a drink.

Cheers.

 

I honestly don't see the mid term the future of this club being particularly enjoyable for fans.

[Romey 1878]

8 hours ago, RPG said:

This season is all about survival. Next season will be about stability and developing a playing style. Meanwhile, the big 6 will have spent several hundred million and catching them becomes even harder.

Ah yes, the this season is a write off and next season will be a building season statement... Don't know how long we've been saying that one for .

[Bill]

The only chance we have of getting anywhere near the top 4 is if the top 6 piss off into this new super league they're trying form.

[StevO]

11 hours ago, RPG said:

This season is all about survival. Next season will be about stability and developing a playing style. Meanwhile, the big 6 will have spent several hundred million and catching them becomes even harder.

Probably a couple of grand spent on season tickets, travel, sky sports, BT sports, for survival (hopefully) and stability (doubt it). This is a horrible addiction. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, RPG said:

Contentious to raise these names in the same post, I know, but many people wanted Howard Kendall sacked in 1983.

Im glad you didn’t actually put their names in the same sentence. That would be upsetting. 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, RPG said:

We have been saying it ever since Moyes left (one good season with Martinez aside) and ever since we sacked new managers who didn't deliver immediately. If Benitez is sacked then, yes, I think we will continue saying it for the next 5 years and next 2 or 3 managers who come and go in that time frame. Now that we have Benitez I think we are stuck with each other and that may be no bad thing. Before we can properly judge Benitez we have to let him assemble his own squad and see how they gel. We are in the mess we are in right now precisely because we have failed to fully do that with any manager since Moyes.

Contentious to raise these names in the same post, I know, but many people wanted Howard Kendall sacked in 1983.

Just because we've fucked up in the past doesn't automatically mean we should stick with it this time.

I firmly believe he will never take us anywhere but backwards, and I just hope we don't leave it until it's too late to get shut of him just because we've gone through a few managers in the past.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Ah yes, the this season is a write off and next season will be a building season statement... Don't know how long we've been saying that one for .

Is that Benitez fault we’ve been saying that for 6 years and 5 managers if you don’t include Benitez. Let’s  sack Benitez I’m sure there’s managers queuing up to come here, not because they think they can achieve something but because they can get a 3-4 year contract worth between 18-24 million and have it paid up in a year

[Gwlad]

Watched his presser. Gives intelligent and well thought out answers to the usual formulaic questions.

[MikeO]

17 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

Watched his presser. Gives intelligent and well thought out answers to the usual formulaic questions.

Apologies but I'm going to have to hate you for ever if you use the word (it isn't one) "presser" ever again

[StevO]

8 hours ago, MikeO said:

Apologies but I'm going to have to hate you for ever if you use the word (it isn't one) "presser" ever again

But you’re ok with formulaic? Too early in the morning for words like that. 

[Gwlad]

On 23/12/2021 at 23:33, MikeO said:

Apologies but I'm going to have to hate you for ever if you use the word (it isn't one) "presser" ever again

TBF (sorry) I was trying to be wiv the kids.

[MikeO]

8 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

TBF (sorry) I was trying to be wiv the kids.

Feel the need, but kids are overrated, best ignored in my opinion.

[DownUnderToff]

Removing initial unconstructive comment...

I fail to see anything beneficial that Benitez has done or brought as manager.  Only improvements I've seen have been through the "forced" playing of young players.

[plaidharper]

6 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

Just fuck off Benitez.

Remember when he said the second half of the season would be better and we would be competing?

What a joke.