Romey 1878 Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post c1982 Posted June 19 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted June 19 PSR deal - makes a lot of sense for all parties. I do think the negotiations went a little like this though… Everton: have you got a big fucker? Villa: yeah, have you got a fast fucker? Everton: yeah. Villa: want £10m towards PSR? Everton: yeah, you? Villa: yeah, sound. Who can we have? Everton: Dobbin. Villa: sounds a bit of a donkey but yeah go on then. Everton: who can we have? Villa: can’t pronounce his name but he’s dead big like. Everton: sound. Works for all parties and helps satisfy PSR. Matt, Haiku, Sev and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 55 minutes ago, c1982 said: PSR deal - makes a lot of sense for all parties. I do think the negotiations went a little like this though… Everton: have you got a big fucker? Villa: yeah, have you got a fast fucker? Everton: yeah. Villa: want £10m towards PSR? Everton: yeah, you? Villa: yeah, sound. Who can we have? Everton: Dobbin. Villa: sounds a bit of a donkey but yeah go on then. Everton: who can we have? Villa: can’t pronounce his name but he’s dead big like. Everton: sound. Works for all parties and helps satisfy PSR. I'm sure my brain isn't functioning after a long day at work, but how does this help both squads satisfy PSR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 Hmmm. So..... home grown talent = pure profit. If we sell a home grown player for £10m and Villa pay that over 5 years then it costs them £2m a year, do we get the full benefit of £10m on books straight away??? if so that would be a big loop hole. just looked and that indeed appears to be the case. So let's agree on a few more young players.... inflate the price amortise it over 5 years £15m - £3m cost £12m profit. We do a sale and they do a sale. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 24 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Hmmm. So..... home grown talent = pure profit. If we sell a home grown player for £10m and Villa pay that over 5 years then it costs them £2m a year, do we get the full benefit of £10m on books straight away??? if so that would be a big loop hole. just looked and that indeed appears to be the case. So let's agree on a few more young players.... inflate the price amortise it over 5 years £15m - £3m cost £12m profit. We do a sale and they do a sale. Everton (and Villa) using the stupid rules against the PL and it’s perfectly legal. If Chelsea can sell hotels back to themselves to circumvent PSR then I’m all for it. Matt, StevO, Hafnia and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 52 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Hmmm. So..... home grown talent = pure profit. If we sell a home grown player for £10m and Villa pay that over 5 years then it costs them £2m a year, do we get the full benefit of £10m on books straight away??? if so that would be a big loop hole. just looked and that indeed appears to be the case. So let's agree on a few more young players.... inflate the price amortise it over 5 years £15m - £3m cost £12m profit. We do a sale and they do a sale. Which is exactly why we sold cannon and simms…pure profit on books…..and why Chelsea are looking to sell Gallagher! Matt and RuffRob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 This still doesn’t make sense to me. PSR (I think) only factors in cash in and cash out. So you can amortize sales and buys however you want, but that doesn’t mean that selling homegrown players is any more beneficial other than you weren’t potentially amortizing the purchase of that player. Again, I’d love to be corrected, but I don’t get the logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patto Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, Matt Tiger said: This still doesn’t make sense to me. PSR (I think) only factors in cash in and cash out. So you can amortize sales and buys however you want, but that doesn’t mean that selling homegrown players is any more beneficial other than you weren’t potentially amortizing the purchase of that player. Again, I’d love to be corrected, but I don’t get the logic. Either way it’s a good deal for us I think we may of got the best of the deal. not sure Dobbin was gonna make it here so good luck to him at Villa. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted June 20 Author Report Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, Matt Tiger said: This still doesn’t make sense to me. PSR (I think) only factors in cash in and cash out. So you can amortize sales and buys however you want, but that doesn’t mean that selling homegrown players is any more beneficial other than you weren’t potentially amortizing the purchase of that player. Again, I’d love to be corrected, but I don’t get the logic. When you sell a homegrown player it’s pure profit. Say we sold Onana - you have to factor in the original fee (book price) - we probably still owe £20m or something and then we need to factor in the sell-on percentage to Lille and a much higher loyalty bonus so the profit is minus these. If we sell Dobbin for, let’s say £10m, it can be £10m (minus loyalty bonus) on the 23/24 accounts but for Villa, they may spread that £10m over 5 years so it’d be £2m a year on the accounts and vice versa with this Tim lad - that’s an easy way to show £8m in the 23/24 accounts. That’s my understanding anyway. StevO, Matt and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, c1982 said: When you sell a homegrown player it’s pure profit. Say we sold Onana - you have to factor in the original fee (book price) - we probably still owe £20m or something and then we need to factor in the sell-on percentage to Lille and a much higher loyalty bonus so the profit is minus these. If we sell Dobbin for, let’s say £10m, it can be £10m (minus loyalty bonus) on the 23/24 accounts but for Villa, they may spread that £10m over 5 years so it’d be £2m a year on the accounts and vice versa with this Tim lad - that’s an easy way to show £8m in the 23/24 accounts. That’s my understanding anyway. Need to totally abuse it. Get Villa to send 10 youth players to us on a free - we sell them back at a price totalling £100m. Amortised cost to them is £20m a season but £100m hits the books and we do the opposite to give both clubs a psr boost with no net financial implications. London Blue and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 7 hours ago, c1982 said: When you sell a homegrown player it’s pure profit. Say we sold Onana - you have to factor in the original fee (book price) - we probably still owe £20m or something and then we need to factor in the sell-on percentage to Lille and a much higher loyalty bonus so the profit is minus these. If we sell Dobbin for, let’s say £10m, it can be £10m (minus loyalty bonus) on the 23/24 accounts but for Villa, they may spread that £10m over 5 years so it’d be £2m a year on the accounts and vice versa with this Tim lad - that’s an easy way to show £8m in the 23/24 accounts. That’s my understanding anyway. This seems like an incredibly poor way of doing business unless everyone is confident this FFP structure is going away altogether. Consistently booking the profits from sales today and the cost of incomings over the term of the contract is a one way ticket to financial ruin, frankly. To be clear, cash wise it doesn’t matter, but from an accounting standpoint the books will be an absolute nightmare very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 16 hours ago, Matt Tiger said: This still doesn’t make sense to me. PSR (I think) only factors in cash in and cash out. So you can amortize sales and buys however you want, but that doesn’t mean that selling homegrown players is any more beneficial other than you weren’t potentially amortizing the purchase of that player. Again, I’d love to be corrected, but I don’t get the logic. That’s not correct. Cash in and out is just your own cash flow. How they appear on your books is what matters for PSR. When you sell a player you can put all of the sale in immediately, minus any amortisation remaining. When you buy a player you can amortise. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 7 hours ago, Matt Tiger said: This seems like an incredibly poor way of doing business unless everyone is confident this FFP structure is going away altogether. Consistently booking the profits from sales today and the cost of incomings over the term of the contract is a one way ticket to financial ruin, frankly. To be clear, cash wise it doesn’t matter, but from an accounting standpoint the books will be an absolute nightmare very quickly. You can spread the payments of a sale over the lengths of the contract if you want to, the same as you do when you buy a player. But in this scenario it’s using the rules to get out of a hole you’re in right now. That’s all. These rules have forced clubs hands into doing these things. Hafnia and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 London Blue and Matt 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: Emery has the vision and tactical knowledge to see that Dobbin has the ability to be a very good player, why don’t we? Oh yeah we have Dyche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Palfy said: Emery has the vision and tactical knowledge to see that Dobbin has the ability to be a very good player, why don’t we? Oh yeah we have Dyche Or this is the best way around PSR... StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, Palfy said: Emery has the vision and tactical knowledge to see that Dobbin has the ability to be a very good player, why don’t we? Oh yeah we have Dyche I take it you think the lad we're bringing in from Villa is shit then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Shame he didn't get more minutes but this is best for the club. Wiggytop and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 7 hours ago, Palfy said: Emery has the vision and tactical knowledge to see that Dobbin has the ability to be a very good player, why don’t we? Oh yeah we have Dyche It’s either to get around PSR from a convenient point of view, or this money takes away some pressure to sell Branthwaite. If he signs for Villa I’ll be shocked if he gets 10 games in the prem. I’ll be less shocked if he goes out on loan. Matt, Wiggytop, dunlopp9987 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Shame in my opinion but it seems a good solution financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: I take it you think the lad we're bringing in from Villa is shit then? I don’t know why you would think that I haven’t mentioned him, but if I had to give an opinion on him I couldn’t don’t no much about him to be honest. But it will be interesting to compare how their careers develop with their moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 All the best to lad. Shame to see him go but needs must situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Palfy said: I don’t know why you would think that I haven’t mentioned him, but if I had to give an opinion on him I couldn’t don’t no much about him to be honest. But it will be interesting to compare how their careers develop with their moves. Well for Emery to want Dobbin you think that means he has the ability to be a very good player and is a stick to beat Dyche with, so if he wants to let Tim go then that must mean he doesn't think he's very good and we're buying a dud no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 6 hours ago, StevO said: It’s either to get around PSR from a convenient point of view, or this money takes away some pressure to sell Branthwaite. If he signs for Villa I’ll be shocked if he gets 10 games in the prem. I’ll be less shocked if he goes out on loan. I'd say it's both. StevO and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 9 hours ago, Palfy said: I don’t know why you would think that I haven’t mentioned him, but if I had to give an opinion on him I couldn’t don’t no much about him to be honest. But it will be interesting to compare how their careers develop with their moves. Cos you can't pronounce his last name ... na na na nana ... there... Palfy and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: Well for Emery to want Dobbin you think that means he has the ability to be a very good player and is a stick to beat Dyche with, so if he wants to let Tim go then that must mean he doesn't think he's very good and we're buying a dud no? I do think he has the ability to be a very good player, and I do think that Emery recognises that and can see his potential, and maybe Emery thinks he’s got the better end of the deal but you will have to ask him that. Reading about Tim from all accounts he wanted to leave Villa whether it was to us or someone else for more playing time, so unless we sell Onana and put him above Gana, Doucoure, and Garner we will have potential bought another Lookman who won’t be happy warming the bench with his arse, unless of course you think he’s that good he will be an automatic starter then happy days we’ve bought ourselves a happy player. The comment about Dyche was tongue in cheek hence the imogi, but if I was asked who I believe is the better manager between the 2 of them it would be Emery all day long, I have said since most of the time Dyche has been here he’s not the manager for this club or any club that has desires on getting amongst the top teams, he’s good at fighting poverty but doesn’t know how to achieve austerity. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 21 hours ago, Palfy said: I have said since most of the time Dyche has been here he’s not the manager for this club or any club that has desires on getting amongst the top teams, he’s good at fighting poverty but doesn’t know how to achieve austerity. You have? I must have missed that. MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 23 hours ago, Palfy said: I do think he has the ability to be a very good player, and I do think that Emery recognises that and can see his potential, and maybe Emery thinks he’s got the better end of the deal but you will have to ask him that. Reading about Tim from all accounts he wanted to leave Villa whether it was to us or someone else for more playing time, so unless we sell Onana and put him above Gana, Doucoure, and Garner we will have potential bought another Lookman who won’t be happy warming the bench with his arse, unless of course you think he’s that good he will be an automatic starter then happy days we’ve bought ourselves a happy player. The comment about Dyche was tongue in cheek hence the imogi, but if I was asked who I believe is the better manager between the 2 of them it would be Emery all day long, I have said since most of the time Dyche has been here he’s not the manager for this club or any club that has desires on getting amongst the top teams, he’s good at fighting poverty but doesn’t know how to achieve austerity. Considering we've been living in the dregs of the league and skint, by your own definition he's the right guy for the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: You have? I must have missed that. Where you been then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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