Kalvin Phillips

[Hafnia]

41 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Personally I think he is already a very good midfielder and has all the tools in the box to go to the very top. He just isn’t a Dyche midfielder

I think he has been superb in the Euros , albeit he knows he was in the shop window so had extra incentive 

I honestly think he will thrive at Villa

https://x.com/cbeesleyecho/status/1812466366999388653?s=46&t=1wM_xvx1NFbXaZSqIaj30A

Yeah you tend to find number 6's look superb when they haven't got fires to put out. They  can just get the ball from centre half and pass it to the players who can hurt the opposition. 
 

I personally prefer a gana who seems to understand the urgency of getting the ball back rather than trying to look cool doing it 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Personally I think he is already a very good midfielder and has all the tools in the box to go to the very top. He just isn’t a Dyche midfielder

I think he has been superb in the Euros , albeit he knows he was in the shop window so had extra incentive 

I honestly think he will thrive at Villa

https://x.com/cbeesleyecho/status/1812466366999388653?s=46&t=1wM_xvx1NFbXaZSqIaj30A

Just realised this isn’t the Onana thread, not that it seems to matter anyway!

As for Phillips we just don’t know whether we are going to get the next Gareth Barry or the next Morgan Schniederlin but suppose a loan would be low risk as long as Coty are still paying a big percentage of his wages

[Shukes]

6 hours ago, Hafnia said:

I just think your appraisal is off. It's like you are judging a different player.  He's a very good number 6 who blocks passing routes - gets interceptions and tackles and passes "forward" - he actually looks to progress the ball. 
 

its like selling a players for £50m and replacing him with better for far far less and enabling us to buy pace in other positions. 

We’ll see won’t we. 
Selling Onana for 55.

Lets see if we pay anywhere near that for Phillips… or in fact if anyone does. 
 

To be honest Haf, 90% of the population of the country seem to see it the same as me… including commentators, media, and ex pros. A hand full on TT agree with you. So it could actually be that maybe… just maybe, your appraisal of the player is off

Heaven forbid 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

We’ll see won’t we. 
Selling Onana for 55.

Lets see if we pay anywhere near that for Phillips… or in fact if anyone does. 
 

To be honest Haf, 90% of the population of the country seem to see it the same as me… including commentators, media, and ex pros. A hand full on TT agree with you. So it could actually be that maybe… just maybe, your appraisal of the player is off

Heaven forbid 

Shukes - carragher, Keane, Neville have openly said "I don't know what he does". I'm aware that ex Everton players joe Parkinson in particular doesn't rate him. 

Tell me the people who say he's quality? I've not heard it. You get footy "aren't I clever" hipsters who seem to think his languid crab like football represents a viera waiting to get out.

Man United paid £80m for hoijlund - means nothing, it's all potential based on his physicality 

he should be a very good player but he isn't. He should be world class but he won't. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

. 
To be honest Haf, 90% of the population of the country seem to see it the same as me… including commentators, media, and ex pros. A hand full on TT agree with you. So it could actually be that maybe… just maybe, your appraisal of the player is off

Heaven forbid 

I think you e got it the other way around. 90% of the population and the media and ex pros think he’s a decent player, you and a hand full on TT agree with you. 

[Shukes]

9 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Shukes - carragher, Keane, Neville have openly said "I don't know what he does". I'm aware that ex Everton players joe Parkinson in particular doesn't rate him. 

Tell me the people who say he's quality? I've not heard it. You get footy "aren't I clever" hipsters who seem to think his languid crab like football represents a viera waiting to get out.

Man United paid £80m for hoijlund - means nothing, it's all potential based on his physicality 

he should be a very good player but he isn't. He should be world class but he won't. 

Those guys are pundits mate, do you think that’s because they are to good to be coaches/managers? Or maybe the opposite?

He is already a very good player, so you’re completely wrong there. 
He is still young and has the potential to become a better player….. so yes, you’re completely wrong again. 
 

Haf, it’s ok to be wrong sometimes mate. It’s like me with Phillips, I just don’t like the guy or rate him… so no matter what people say I don’t agree. I get that and understand that with myself. I accept it. 
You need to admit it to.

Oh ye, and read through this thread. Many people on here are saying he is a good player but isn’t anywhere near consistent enough yet. They aren’t saying he isn’t a good player.

Come on, you can do it, I believe in you. If I believe a young lad like Onana can grow then it’s only fair I have the same faith in you.

[Shukes]

8 hours ago, StevO said:

I think you e got it the other way around. 90% of the population and the media and ex pros think he’s a decent player, you and a hand full on TT agree with you. 

Haha wasn’t that what I said? Other than I’m in that 90% as well.

I honestly go along with what most on here are saying. He is a good player but doesn’t have that consistency, and maybe he isnt what we need right now. And I can see him moving and doing very well. He performed very well on the world stage during these finals, where superstars like Bellingham forgot to turn up.

But I also see, it’s just how I view him that’s all. There’s no way I can be right or wrong as I cannot see what’s ahead for him, I can only guess.
So I don’t like when grown blokes tell me I’m wrong and try to pretend it’s factual…. So I do it back to them haha. 
It’s just a bit of fun  

[StevO]

Now I’m confused. Who are we talking about?

[Romey 1878]

It's happened again.

Love it!

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Those guys are pundits mate, do you think that’s because they are to good to be coaches/managers? Or maybe the opposite?

He is already a very good player, so you’re completely wrong there. 
He is still young and has the potential to become a better player….. so yes, you’re completely wrong again. 
 

Haf, it’s ok to be wrong sometimes mate. It’s like me with Phillips, I just don’t like the guy or rate him… so no matter what people say I don’t agree. I get that and understand that with myself. I accept it. 
You need to admit it to.

Oh ye, and read through this thread. Many people on here are saying he is a good player but isn’t anywhere near consistent enough yet. They aren’t saying he isn’t a good player.

Come on, you can do it, I believe in you. If I believe a young lad like Onana can grow then it’s only fair I have the same faith in you.

Shukes.  We won a higher percentage of games when he didn't play, we scored more goals and conceded less when he didn't play. 

now let's really put this into context - we weren't asking him to come into a high level team and perform at a level that elite prem players could only do.   We were asking him to come into a team where our midfield options were 35 year old Onana, inexperienced Garner or the pretty much finished Gomes with Ashley young as an emergency fill in. Yet the team did better without him. 
 

I'm well aware as to how football scouting works. Onana is the exact profile that Arsenal Wenger would go for - tall, athletic, physical. He would get them at 16-18 and mould them. Onana is 22 and looked like he was playing in pre season friendlies when he was actually in a relegation battle. 

so this "potential" you speak of..... he missed training, was late for training and the manager despite bringing in Steven Defour to mentor him had enough...... the one player to visibly be the fall guy from the 6-0 fall out was Onana. We won the 3 games in 1 week without him and looked together as a team. Says it all. 
 

To cap it off - I judge racehorses by watching them race, I'm not some pretentious "talent spotter" who thinks the parade ring is where you can spot a winner.  It seems the pretentious talent spotters see something in Onana that many of us haven't seen in the pitch. Being 6ft 4 and a good athlete means naff all if you have the heart and mind of a mouse. 

Back on to kalvin Phillips - maybe having Rodri in his position has made things a bit difficult, still he's done something more than Onana and that's having a good premier league season. 

 

[Shukes]

Haf.

I mean this respectfully. 
I judge you as being smart enough to know that changing a player and getting better results isn’t simply down to one player. Your also smart enough and knowledgable enough to know that results can also change without changing personnel. 
I really mean that respectfully as well. 
 

You’re using that along with FB users as a reason for Onana not being good enough. But like it or not, he was a first team player in our team. That’s not my opinion, it’s just the simple truth mate. But there were also ten other players on the pitch each time we lost. 
 

Have you done the same due diligence with all of our team by the way?

Who has the better win percentage last season between Branthwaite and Kean?

What about with or without Garner? One of your favourites.

If a player isn’t good enough, he won’t be good enough for anyone. He can’t be good enough for his national team and not for his club team. He may “ not fit “ into one of them, but if he is good enough, then that’s the end of the ability argument.

We all love to think we see things that others don’t, I do the same. But when someone hits with the …. Do it yourself then, I have to wind it in a bit. 
 

You may not like Onana, but he IS a premier league player, one of the elite. He is also an international player, one of the elite. Not for San Marino, but Belgium. He IS receiving interest from an Elite manager at Villa. Not an ex pro managing Runcorn, an elite manager at the very top managing one of the biggest football teams in England.

Again you can’t just say something and hope we all agree it’s true mate. Phillips has had a terrible season, much much worse than Onana. He has been directly at fault for giving away several goals, and I say directly as in he basically gave out assists. He has been absolutely awful. Now I am big enough to admit, that by itself that doesn’t mean he is a bad player. And I would love to be proven wrong as always if he comes here as I love the club before any player. I don’t rate McNeil, but have slowly grown to appreciate him. 
 

To end this debate, let’s let the player do his own talking shall we? If you’re right he will go to Villa and fail miserably. If Villa’s pretentious manager is right, he will go and be a success.

But me nor you are scouts Haf, we’re just guys with opinions… nothing more nothing less. But please, just accept…. You’re not right! And I’m not right. 

[Hafnia]

47 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Haf.

I mean this respectfully. 
I judge you as being smart enough to know that changing a player and getting better results isn’t simply down to one player. Your also smart enough and knowledgable enough to know that results can also change without changing personnel. 
I really mean that respectfully as well. 
 

You’re using that along with FB users as a reason for Onana not being good enough. But like it or not, he was a first team player in our team. That’s not my opinion, it’s just the simple truth mate. But there were also ten other players on the pitch each time we lost. 
 

Have you done the same due diligence with all of our team by the way?

Who has the better win percentage last season between Branthwaite and Kean?

What about with or without Garner? One of your favourites.

If a player isn’t good enough, he won’t be good enough for anyone. He can’t be good enough for his national team and not for his club team. He may “ not fit “ into one of them, but if he is good enough, then that’s the end of the ability argument.

We all love to think we see things that others don’t, I do the same. But when someone hits with the …. Do it yourself then, I have to wind it in a bit. 
 

You may not like Onana, but he IS a premier league player, one of the elite. He is also an international player, one of the elite. Not for San Marino, but Belgium. He IS receiving interest from an Elite manager at Villa. Not an ex pro managing Runcorn, an elite manager at the very top managing one of the biggest football teams in England.

Again you can’t just say something and hope we all agree it’s true mate. Phillips has had a terrible season, much much worse than Onana. He has been directly at fault for giving away several goals, and I say directly as in he basically gave out assists. He has been absolutely awful. Now I am big enough to admit, that by itself that doesn’t mean he is a bad player. And I would love to be proven wrong as always if he comes here as I love the club before any player. I don’t rate McNeil, but have slowly grown to appreciate him. 
 

To end this debate, let’s let the player do his own talking shall we? If you’re right he will go to Villa and fail miserably. If Villa’s pretentious manager is right, he will go and be a success.

But me nor you are scouts Haf, we’re just guys with opinions… nothing more nothing less. But please, just accept…. You’re not right! And I’m not right. 

Shukes - you mention branthwaite?  I'll summarise it as simply this - without him we get relegated.  Had the best defensive stats of any English defender last year.  Above all he passed the eye test.  
 

You say Onana was a first team player for us?  So was Ashley young sooooo - thing is Onana wasn't a first team player when we won 3 games in a week but he was in the game we lost 6-0. 
 

he plays for Belgium? So what?! A side that got knocked out early doors.  Kalvin Phillips played in a World Cup semi final and euros final and Pep bought him..... 

James Garner? What about him. Solid, £15m player, can do a job in several positions, disciplined..... I'm not messing my trousers calling him an elite player as though he's gonna be an elite player.  Better all round player than Onana but if he got above his stations and passed match winning pennos to the keeper and touted himself to the press I'd take £50m for him as well and laugh my head off.  Maybe garner needs to do unnecessary pirouettes in midfield and wave his arms around a bit and kiss the badge (whilst trying to engineer a move out). 
 

What I'm right about mate is he's done absolutely nothing in the game - further to that the business end results = points on the board strongly suggest we do better without him.

dunno.... maybe it's the fact that he plays footy at snail pace tempo and allows teams to get back in shape whilst doing an elegant pass sideways to Harrison to boost his pass completion stat

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Shukes - you mention branthwaite?  I'll summarise it as simply this - without him we get relegated.  Had the best defensive stats of any English defender last year.  Above all he passed the eye test.  
 

You say Onana was a first team player for us?  So was Ashley young sooooo - thing is Onana wasn't a first team player when we won 3 games in a week but he was in the game we lost 6-0. 
 

he plays for Belgium? So what?! A side that got knocked out early doors.  Kalvin Phillips played in a World Cup semi final and euros final and Pep bought him..... 

James Garner? What about him. Solid, £15m player, can do a job in several positions, disciplined..... I'm not messing my trousers calling him an elite player as though he's gonna be an elite player.  Better all round player than Onana but if he got above his stations and passed match winning pennos to the keeper and touted himself to the press I'd take £50m for him as well and laugh my head off.  Maybe garner needs to do unnecessary pirouettes in midfield and wave his arms around a bit and kiss the badge (whilst trying to engineer a move out). 
 

What I'm right about mate is he's done absolutely nothing in the game - further to that the business end results = points on the board strongly suggest we do better without him.

dunno.... maybe it's the fact that he plays footy at snail pace tempo and allows teams to get back in shape whilst doing an elegant pass sideways to Harrison to boost his pass completion stat

I'm mostly with you on Onana but Shukes has quite clearly said he sees something there and he's listened to the criticism but doesn't agree.  It's not a matter of right or wrong, just arrived at a point where it's agree to disagree I think.

[Shukes]

To finish on your last comment that he’s done absolutely nothing Haf. 
He plays for Everton fc that’s a massive achievement, one he should be proud of. 
 

He also plays for his national team. He is also the target for a 54m transfer, with a sell on clause. We also had our best season points wise for a long time if you count the deducted points as well.

But yes, he was nowhere near as successful as Phillips last season was he.

So sorry mate, but yet again, you’re not right…. You’re very wrong. 
 

Haf, me and you see football in different ways. It’s good we do as it allows us to verbal spar. But we can always go to far to the point where we won’t accept each others opinions. I think we’re at the point mate and I do t want it to go further… so let’s take it to another thread and argue about someone else.

What do you think of a proposed DCL sale?

[Hafnia]

56 minutes ago, Shukes said:

To finish on your last comment that he’s done absolutely nothing Haf. 
He plays for Everton fc that’s a massive achievement, one he should be proud of. 
 

He also plays for his national team. He is also the target for a 54m transfer, with a sell on clause. We also had our best season points wise for a long time if you count the deducted points as well.

But yes, he was nowhere near as successful as Phillips last season was he.

So sorry mate, but yet again, you’re not right…. You’re very wrong. 
 

Haf, me and you see football in different ways. It’s good we do as it allows us to verbal spar. But we can always go to far to the point where we won’t accept each others opinions. I think we’re at the point mate and I do t want it to go further… so let’s take it to another thread and argue about someone else.

What do you think of a proposed DCL sale?

Saying he's done something cos he's played for us? We've had loads of underwhelming players who have played for us mate which is why we have battled relegation.  Tony Thomas and Steve simonsen played for us - does that mean they shouldn't have been sold? No.

The model I subscribe to is buy low - sell high. 

Kalvin Phillips fits the profile of Arteta or Pienaar - players who performed to a high level and were sold for good money to a big club where they struggled.  They came to Everton where they showed their levels.  If Kalvin Phillips was at his Leeds levels then he wouldn't be getting loaned out by city. 
 

funny isn't it - people say Onana doesn't suit dyche ball and is a great signing for Villa - but apparently kelvin Phillips can't be afforded the same consideration. Funny that 

onana has strong rodwell vibes - not done anything of note but seems to have people rate him cos he looks elegant and athletic.  Like I say - it's not synchronised swimming.... I quickly grew out of players who tried to look nice on the ball when we had John Collins.

Dcl? Sell.... we offered him a contract and he said he wants to leave. So the option is 1. Don't sell and he leaves on a free and big wages  2. Actively sell and reinvest 

 

[RuffRob]

There is obviosely something about Onana, becasue at times he looks really good, but also other times he looks a little disinterested in a Everton shirt shall we say. He could go either way or just stay the same at another club. There is a risk/reward to any club buying him at the money they are paying. 

Putting the fee we are looking to get in to perspective (talk of £50m + £5M add ons) - I think Lukaku is the only player we have sold for more, possibly Richarlison at a very similar fee.  We have never paid anywhere near this sort of fee for a player.  We are getting pretty good money for him - Fair money.

Onana leaving will leave a hole in the squad - but its not a chasm by any means - as we managed with out him pretty well in the games he didn't play. Money banked for team strengthening is of more value this season. 

Phillips on loan for a season may best part fill that gap temporary for a season. (as long as we are not paying his whole wages) 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

I'm mostly with you on Onana but Shukes has quite clearly said he sees something there and he's listened to the criticism but doesn't agree.  It's not a matter of right or wrong, just arrived at a point where it's agree to disagree I think.

Shukes was telling me that 90% of the population and pundits see Onana as a good player..... that's where this all came from. 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Saying he's done something cos he's played for us? We've had loads of underwhelming players who have played for us mate which is why we have battled relegation.  Tony Thomas and Steve simonsen played for us - does that mean they shouldn't have been sold? No.

The model I subscribe to is buy low - sell high. 

Kalvin Phillips fits the profile of Arteta or Pienaar - players who performed to a high level and were sold for good money to a big club where they struggled.  They came to Everton where they showed their levels.  If Kalvin Phillips was at his Leeds levels then he wouldn't be getting loaned out by city. 
 

funny isn't it - people say Onana doesn't suit dyche ball and is a great signing for Villa - but apparently kelvin Phillips can't be afforded the same consideration. Funny that 

onana has strong rodwell vibes - not done anything of note but seems to have people rate him cos he looks elegant and athletic.  Like I say - it's not synchronised swimming.... I quickly grew out of players who tried to look nice on the ball when we had John Collins.

Dcl? Sell.... we offered him a contract and he said he wants to leave. So the option is 1. Don't sell and he leaves on a free and big wages  2. Actively sell and reinvest 

 

Fucking you can’t help it can you haha! 
 

You have this strange opinion on your head that people who rate him or think he has potential, think that die to his athleticism and build. But your opinion is obviously made up from your observations. Funny that.

Absolute bollocks mate. Absolute bollocks. 
 

And who isn’t giving Phillips the same consideration? Seems you are? In fact, I think I’m the only one so far who isn’t rating him haha. 

[Shukes]

33 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Shukes was telling me that 90% of the population and pundits see Onana as a good player..... that's where this all came from. 

And I stand by that. His international manager picks him. Dyche picks him. His previous club picked. We paid a good sum for him. 
He will stay in the premier league, you know the elite league. 
He had a 55m offer in for him. 
Most on here are saying he has ability and potential, but some feel he hasn’t the attitude, and others feel he just doesn’t fit our team. 
 

Honestly Haf, not many are making him out to be a bad player, you seem to be a minority. You’re making out he is just built like a footballer and that’s fooling everyone!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2024/07/15/everton-ready-tanner-tessmann-loan-after-inter-milan-transfer-development/

This has nothing to do with Kalvin Phillips either but hey ho

[StevO]

So, who's good and who's bad, Onana or Phillips? Because i'm still so confused.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

So, who's good and who's bad, Onana or Phillips? Because i'm still so confused.

James Garner.

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

James Garner.

You mean Gana?

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

You mean Gana?

At this point, who knows? Could be Maggie Gueye.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Shukes was telling me that 90% of the population and pundits see Onana as a good player..... that's where this all came from. 

Because they do. Presumably because 90% also don't watch him week in, week out.

Regardless of what we think of him, he is going places. But for now, or at least for us, he's been static and thats been detrimental to us. But he's still a premier league player, national player so he has a lot going for him. Both sides of the argument are valid.

[Shukes]

So is this Phillips guy any good then? And are we actually in for him, or is it press just jumping on the Onana sale and presuming we’re back in for him.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Fucking you can’t help it can you haha! 
 

You have this strange opinion on your head that people who rate him or think he has potential, think that die to his athleticism and build. But your opinion is obviously made up from your observations. Funny that.

Absolute bollocks mate. Absolute bollocks. 
 

And who isn’t giving Phillips the same consideration? Seems you are? In fact, I think I’m the only one so far who isn’t rating him haha. 

Calm down Shukes..... don't blow a gasket mate.

im offering the "potential" shout cos that can be the only thing that people see.  You reckon he was performing to a high level?  I know for a fact he wasn't.

tell me what he gave us? Maybe then you could tell me something I couldn't see.   All I can recall last year was him allowing dunk a clear run for a headed equaliser, turning away to allow palace to score and of course the penalty. Sure there may have been a couple of goals but nothing that stands out.

ben Godfrey contributed more mate. 

[Romey 1878]

7 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So is this Phillips guy any good then? And are we actually in for him, or is it press just jumping on the Onana sale and presuming we’re back in for him.

It wasn't even the press, it's all on @c1982this one!

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

And I stand by that. His international manager picks him. Dyche picks him. His previous club picked. We paid a good sum for him. 
He will stay in the premier league, you know the elite league. 
He had a 55m offer in for him. 
Most on here are saying he has ability and potential, but some feel he hasn’t the attitude, and others feel he just doesn’t fit our team. 
 

Honestly Haf, not many are making him out to be a bad player, you seem to be a minority. You’re making out he is just built like a footballer and that’s fooling everyone!

Dyche dropped him for 3 crucial games mate... he trusted a 35 year old  and a £15m kid to do a job vs Liverpool. 
 

Never said he's a bad player - but he's never a £50m player.  Stop taking it personally mate - he doesn't give a shit about Everton why you arsed about him? Walked round st James park and Stamford bridge when we were in shit street.... threw a tantrum cos he got taken off.  Never turned up to training and had a problem with lateness.

have a watch of the Newcastle game and watch him vs Jacob Murphy.... absolutely disgraceful.  Dyche near exploded. 
 

but yeah he gets picked for Belgium..... who are now a shadow of the side they used to be. 

[StevO]

Haf, I think Shukes has dropped it mate.