Summer Transfer Window

[Cisk]

2 minutes ago, London Blue said:

2017–	Everton	8	(0)
2018	→ Sevilla (loan)	13	(0)
2018–2019	→ Real Sociedad (loan)	24	(0)
2019–2020	→ Valladolid (loan)	24	(3)

 

Epically bad, we are talking Bret Angel levels of failure. 

What 8 games.......

 

How many did Bergkamp fail to score in before he 'worked'

 

Not saying Sandro is a Bergkamp but is he worth giving another shot at least?

[London Blue]

21 minutes ago, Cisk said:

What 8 games.......

 

How many did Bergkamp fail to score in before he 'worked'

 

Not saying Sandro is a Bergkamp but is he worth giving another shot at least?

Look at the loan spells.

3 Goals in 69 games, there are probably goalkeepers out there with a better scoring record than Sandro.

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

You have assessed them very well, but the point was you can sell and people will buy, Bills response was we are the proof of that

So why hasn’t anyone tried to buy them from us?

[Shukes]

Sandro isn’t playing as a striker though.  It saying he is any good, just that goal stays are not a way to judge him. 
Whenever I have read reports about his latest loan, it seems he is doing pretty good and is effective in his wide role. 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Sandro isn’t playing as a striker though.  It saying he is any good, just that goal stays are not a way to judge him. 
Whenever I have read reports about his latest loan, it seems he is doing pretty good and is effective in his wide role. 

1 assist in 24 games last season,  not the stats of a poor wide player let alone an effective one.

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, StevO said:

So why hasn’t anyone tried to buy them from us?

Probably because he is on a £100k a week!

I remember watching him a few times in the U20 World Cup and he looked like he would have a future but at the same time, and looking back in hindsight, he didn't do much. Technically sound, worked hard and was strong enough against U20 defenders but I don't remember him having a shot or being in a position to shoot. I don't remember him beating a man or being particularly quick or anything like that either.

When he came here, again he looked lively to start with but then we found out he couldn't hit a barn door and he wasn't strong or smart enough at his age in this league to play up up front.

How on earth he got those crazy wages I have no idea.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Probably because he is on a £100k a week!

I remember watching him a few times in the U20 World Cup and he looked like he would have a future but at the same time, and looking back in hindsight, he didn't do much. Technically sound, worked hard and was strong enough against U20 defenders but I don't remember him having a shot or being in a position to shoot. I don't remember him beating a man or being particularly quick or anything like that either.

When he came here, again he looked lively to start with but then we found out he couldn't hit a barn door and he wasn't strong or smart enough at his age in this league to play up up front.

How on earth he got those crazy wages I have no idea.

Exactly mate. Lots of players on fat contracts. Either pay them off (very expensive) or sell them to someone who is willing to match their wages (not finding too many buyers). It’s become very difficult to move these lads on. 

[chicagoblue]

19 hours ago, London Blue said:

2017–	Everton	8	(0)
2018	→ Sevilla (loan)	13	(0)
2018–2019	→ Real Sociedad (loan)	24	(0)
2019–2020	→ Valladolid (loan)	24	(3)

 

Epically bad, we are talking Bret Angel levels of failure. 

Valladolid have sold Salisu and have cash burning a whole in their pocket, fingers crossed they want him back.  3 in 24 isn't abysmal if he's playing from a wide position and especially if his job is more to make runs and occupy the opposition (pure speculation, haven't watched him once since 2017)

--

Just watched the youtube of his Valladolid goals.  Two actually decent strikes, third a poachers goal.

--

More info, reported in the Echo a couple months ago

However, despite scoring three goals in 13 starts for the La Liga club, their director Miguel Ángel Gómez has cast doubt over a potential permanent move over the price the Blues have apparently set on their man.

He told Cadena Ser [via SportWitness ]: "Sandro belongs to Everton, and you have already seen published that they intend to transfer him for around 5-6 million.

 

[RuffRob]

6 hours ago, Bailey said:

Probably because he is on a £100k a week!

I remember watching him a few times in the U20 World Cup and he looked like he would have a future but at the same time, and looking back in hindsight, he didn't do much. Technically sound, worked hard and was strong enough against U20 defenders but I don't remember him having a shot or being in a position to shoot. I don't remember him beating a man or being particularly quick or anything like that either.

When he came here, again he looked lively to start with but then we found out he couldn't hit a barn door and he wasn't strong or smart enough at his age in this league to play up up front.

How on earth he got those crazy wages I have no idea.

crazy wages where being dished out left right and centre because we where (and still are) a fairly average team, desperately wanting to break in to the big time. Players knew it, selling clubs knew it - so we where properly mugged off on a lot of the signings and in all honesty Moshiri can only have himself to blame - we always here the term that signing is a 'statement of intent' - but its the same as saying 'we have got lots of money and are willing to spend it'.

Now I am not going to Moshiri bashing as in the longer term I think he will be great for the club - New stadium, financial backing, I believe he genuinely wants Everton to be a long term and successful project. He just got over excited in the first couple of years (his intentions where good) made a few unfortunate choices in terms of people he brought in to help spend his millions - but all credit to him he has got money in to the club and has spent it!! I don't know how much comes out of his own pocket - but think he has learnt pretty fast that chucking millions at players will not yield a quick up turn in success unless you can afford to do this year after year after year. He has maybe learnt to now leave transfer strategy to footballing people.

As we are still an average team we will still have to pay a little over the odds for 'in-demand' player - its just the market. Just look at Hojbjerg wanting to go to Spur over us, as they have a greater chance of CL football etc. this is not and argument over signing of Hojbjerg, just an illustration of how the only edge we might have over signing in demand player is offering contracts they find difficult to turn down. It's a horrible catch 22. 

Man City and Chelsea where fortunate when they where took over by multi billionaire - there where able to pump in massive money year after year until they moved from average teams to contenders to the top team in the country. I remember them having some stinkers of transfers, but it didn't matter as they just bought more to replace them. But few can do it this way, maybe PSG the only other example of this. 

Think we are just going to have to try and grow a little more organically than maybe we first hoped. I am still optimistic we will become more competitive, just might take a little more time than many of us hoped.  

 

 

 

[London Blue]

Evolution not revolution. 

[c1982]

Here’s a good little thread on Allan/Gabriel and the complications...

*for anyone not au fait with Twitter, you need to click on the first to read the rest of the thread in Twitter.

[markjazzbassist]

thanks, seems like a soap opera.  i know the owner of napoli is a nut, go figure we want half their squad.

[Btay]

I trust brands completely in these situations. Would love it if we delay Napoli’s finances to buy Gabriel long enough to swoop in for a double announcement of Gabriel and Allan.

[Bailey]

I feel like the Gabriel deal is a balls up on our part. For the sake of a few million on a player they clearly believe was worth the money. If that deal had gone through, there wouldn't be a problem with the Allan deal.

Having said all that, its all paper talk anyway so could all be bollocks.

[Hafnia]

33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I feel like the Gabriel deal is a balls up on our part. For the sake of a few million on a player they clearly believe was worth the money. If that deal had gone through, there wouldn't be a problem with the Allan deal.

Having said all that, its all paper talk anyway so could all be bollocks.

At the time....the season was up in air and we were potentially £20m short on income due to no tv money.  It was the right thing to do.  Otherwise we would have been financially screwed if the season ended a d we bought him for top wack. 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

At the time....the season was up in air and we were potentially £20m short on income due to no tv money.  It was the right thing to do.  Otherwise we would have been financially screwed if the season ended a d we bought him for top wack. 

Really? Its not like we pulled out of the deal, we just tried to negotiate the price down. Paying a few extra million wasnt going to hurt us. I dont deny that trying to knock a few quid off wasnt a financially astute thing to do but if the player is someone we are already invested in and clearly want then surely its worth stumping up the cash and getting the deal done rather than trying to save a couple of million which is pennies by football standard.

[Hafnia]

19 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Really? Its not like we pulled out of the deal, we just tried to negotiate the price down. Paying a few extra million wasnt going to hurt us. I dont deny that trying to knock a few quid off wasnt a financially astute thing to do but if the player is someone we are already invested in and clearly want then surely its worth stumping up the cash and getting the deal done rather than trying to save a couple of million which is pennies by football standard.

The issue is that other teams are interested now, Napoli have a gentleman's agreement and we will only get him if napoli withdraw.  The issue isn't money - unless of course we pay over the odds and make them change their stance. 

At the time when we could have done the deal at an agreed price - it was a risk with regards to not getting season finished and tv money. 

[c1982]

This stat points to a massive problem for us...

 

[Matt]

Henderson bottom 3?!

[markjazzbassist]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Henderson bottom 3?!

he's not a great player, he's a yard dog.  i've said his repeatedly and told how great captain england is.  he's a guy that loves the limelight and to strut around like a pecock with his chest puffed out.  i can't stand him.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

he's not a great player, he's a yard dog.  i've said his repeatedly and told how great captain england is.  he's a guy that loves the limelight and to strut around like a pecock with his chest puffed out.  i can't stand him.

Oh I don’t rate him either but was surprised to see him so low on the list considering the couple of medals he’s picked up in the last couple of years 

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Henderson bottom 3?!

Its only because Liverpool press a lot more as a pack than most teams so you would expect there to be a lot more sharing around of the turnovers and tackles. Same with City. Not to mention they have the most possession in the league and therefore its less likely they will make more tackles and interceptions. If anything its a surprise Fabinho is so high! 

Its also worth questioning how important individual stats like this are. The majority of players on that list play for sides that at some point were threatened with relegation or were relegated. 

No one player in a team is a tasked with just intercepting or tackling and therefore I think these stats are more important in the context of the team totals especially when then compared with possession. 

[Palfy]

If you only rate players by stats then you get false readings, a player’s ability is based just as much on the things you can’t quantify. 

[StevO]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

he's not a great player, he's a yard dog.  i've said his repeatedly and told how great captain england is.  he's a guy that loves the limelight and to strut around like a pecock with his chest puffed out.  i can't stand him.

Don’t like the guy either, but I’d take him over every single one of our midfielders. 
I’ve seen him think he can play the hard man, and think he can play Hollywood passes. But one thing I’ve never seen from him? I’ve never seen him give up in a game. Sadly I’ve seen that too often from too many of our players. 
I don’t like Henderson, but I’ve got massive respect for him. 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Don’t like the guy either, but I’d take him over every single one of our midfielders. 
I’ve seen him think he can play the hard man, and think he can play Hollywood passes. But one thing I’ve never seen from him? I’ve never seen him give up in a game. Sadly I’ve seen that too often from too many of our players. 
I don’t like Henderson, but I’ve got massive respect for him. 

Exactly we have no one in our team who can match what he offers Liverpool.  

[Shukes]

14 minutes ago, StevO said:

Don’t like the guy either, but I’d take him over every single one of our midfielders. 
I’ve seen him think he can play the hard man, and think he can play Hollywood passes. But one thing I’ve never seen from him? I’ve never seen him give up in a game. Sadly I’ve seen that too often from too many of our players. 
I don’t like Henderson, but I’ve got massive respect for him. 

I used to think he was overrated, until watching the last minute of a dead rubber match, and he was still fighting in injury time. I started taking a bit more note of him then. 
 

Another player that’s head and shoulders above anything we have.

[c1982]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

Its also worth questioning how important individual stats like this are. The majority of players on that list play for sides that at some point were threatened with relegation or were relegated. 

No one player in a team is a tasked with just intercepting or tackling and therefore I think these stats are more important in the context of the team totals especially when then compared with possession. 

It’s relevant to us as it shows how we desperately lack any bite in midfield - we’re not a team that dominates possession and actually, you see the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U, teams who regularly dominate possession, in there with a couple of players each. If you can’t get the ball back - you’re not going to do very well. Man C are the exception to the rule as they significantly dominate possession so regularly. For anyone who watches Everton, these stats won’t be surprising as it’s clear as day that we lack any dominance in midfield - a big factor being that when we lose the ball, we simply don’t win it back!

[Bailey]

5 minutes ago, c1982 said:

It’s relevant to us as it shows how we desperately lack any bite in midfield - we’re not a team that dominates possession and actually, you see the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U, teams who regularly dominate possession, in there with a couple of players each. If you can’t get the ball back - you’re not going to do very well. Man C are the exception to the rule as they significantly dominate possession so regularly. For anyone who watches Everton, these stats won’t be surprising as it’s clear as day that we lack any dominance in midfield - a big factor being that when we lose the ball, we simply don’t win it back!

So if all teams make 100 tackles and interceptions but one team has one person make 50 and the other 10 the other 50 and then the other side has 10 people with 10 each then only one player will make that list. 

Similarly if one side plays aggressively and makes 100 tackles and interceptions and the other sits back and soaks up opposition possession and only makes 50 tackles and interceptions then they are also less likely to make that list. 

What also happens if alĺ of our other midfielders are the next players on the list? Would that change your view? 

[c1982]

5 minutes ago, Bailey said:

So if all teams make 100 tackles and interceptions but one team has one person make 50 and the other 10 the other 50 and then the other side has 10 people with 10 each then only one player will make that list. 

Similarly if one side plays aggressively and makes 100 tackles and interceptions and the other sits back and soaks up opposition possession and only makes 50 tackles and interceptions then they are also less likely to make that list. 

What also happens if alĺ of our other midfielders are the next players on the list? Would that change your view? 

You do watch us don’t you?!?! Who have we got putting the tackles in and winning back possession? It’s clearly our biggest problem - this shows it a little more! If we still had Gana then he’d be high up that list, likewise McCarthy. The fact is, we’ve really missed that ‘ball-winner’ in midfield - whether it be 1 player or shared amongst 2 or 3.

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, c1982 said:

You do watch us don’t you?!?! Who have we got putting the tackles in and winning back possession? It’s clearly our biggest problem - this shows it a little more! If we still had Gana then he’d be high up that list, likewise McCarthy. The fact is, we’ve really missed that ‘ball-winner’ in midfield - whether it be 1 player or shared amongst 2 or 3.

I think we have enjoyed more possession under Ancelotti percentage wise than when we had Gana in the team, our problems have been that when we’ve had the ball we’ve had no one in midfield who knows how to use it. 
We don’t create or move it forward with any confidence from the middle, most of our possession is playing it sideways or backwards in our own half, I don’t particularly think it’s a midfield ball winner we lack although you wouldn’t not want one, it’s someone who can get us playing once we have the ball.