General Election/UK Politics

[patto]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

So violent crime in Liverpool doesn’t get reported in the media?

Of course it does I’m not against that what I’m saying is when a stabbing occurs elsewhere I don’t see the BBC putting an article out within hours now I don’t know the full facts but what I saw was different to what the BBC reported in fact it came across as fake news if that’s the case someone should be held responsible for it. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, patto said:

Of course it does I’m not against that what I’m saying is when a stabbing occurs elsewhere I don’t see the BBC putting an article out within hours now I don’t know the full facts but what I saw was different to what the BBC reported in fact it came across as fake news if that’s the case someone should be held responsible for it. 

You realise that BBC news on "smaller" crime incidents is regionalised? BBC Merseyside wouldn't publish an article about a stabbing elsewhere in the country in any timescale, just like the Liverpool stabbing didn't appear on BBC Devon today. 

[patto]

6 hours ago, MikeO said:

You realise that BBC news on "smaller" crime incidents is regionalised? BBC Merseyside wouldn't publish an article about a stabbing elsewhere in the country in any timescale, just like the Liverpool stabbing didn't appear on BBC Devon today. 

Smaller crime ? I think if 7 youths attack a lone cyclist and stab him it would be major news especially as hes foreign. 
so we’ve gone down the road of classing stabbings as small crime and what if he dies. 

[StevO]

Unfortunately this seems to happen in most cities on a regular basis. As others have said, it’s a massive problem. 
 

I seem to remember probably five years ago there was calls for a ten year prison sentence if you are found to be carrying a knife, even if you’ve not used it. But it didn’t seem to gather momentum and I don’t think it went through. Shame. 

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, patto said:

Smaller crime ? I think if 7 youths attack a lone cyclist and stab him it would be major news especially as hes foreign. 
so we’ve gone down the road of classing stabbings as small crime and what if he dies. 

It happens so regularly in major cities that not all are reported by the media, in Greater London it’s a daily occurrence most deaths make the news but by no means all, it’s like it’s becoming an everyday event and not news worthy anymore in lots of our cities and towns. 
And the biggest majority of knife crimes are carried out by British Citizens and not foreign migrants or immigrants, longer jail sentences maybe the answer but I very much doubt it. 
Most stabbings in this country are gang related were kids as young as 11 and 12 are indoctrinated into these gangs. 
Imo poor parenting has a major issue to play where these parents let their kids out all hours without clue where they are or what they are doing, I understand a lot of these people are from deprived communities but that can be no excuse for giving up on your kids. 
Let's start with education at home and in the schools before we need the use of the courts and long jail terms as the solution because that’s a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, also any minor who as committed a knife crime under the age 16 or found in possession of a knife, the the parents should face consequences if it can be proven that they haven’t asserted any responsibility or control of their kids. 

[patto]

13 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It happens so regularly in major cities that not all are reported by the media, in Greater London it’s a daily occurrence most deaths make the news but by no means all, it’s like it’s becoming an everyday event and not news worthy anymore in lots of our cities and towns. 
And the biggest majority of knife crimes are carried out by British Citizens and not foreign migrants or immigrants, longer jail sentences maybe the answer but I very much doubt it. 
Most stabbings in this country are gang related were kids as young as 11 and 12 are indoctrinated into these gangs. 
Imo poor parenting has a major issue to play where these parents let their kids out all hours without clue where they are or what they are doing, I understand a lot of these people are from deprived communities but that can be no excuse for giving up on your kids. 
Let's start with education at home and in the schools before we need the use of the courts and long jail terms as the solution because that’s a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, also any minor who as committed a knife crime under the age 16 or found in possession of a knife, the the parents should face consequences if it can be proven that they haven’t asserted any responsibility or control of their kids. 

I think most knife crime is drugs related and agree parenting is a big problem. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, patto said:

I think most knife crime is drugs related and agree parenting is a big problem. 

Kids wanting to be hard is more of a problem than drugs. 
From my experience it’s not cool to take drugs as a teenager like it was 20 years ago. 

[Palfy]

16 hours ago, StevO said:

Kids wanting to be hard is more of a problem than drugs. 
From my experience it’s not cool to take drugs as a teenager like it was 20 years ago. 

The problem isn’t so much the taking of the drugs but the selling of the drugs, which has created turf wars and violence between the different gangs who are protecting their patch or trying to infiltrate some other gangs turf. 
But you are right that there is a lot of kids who may not be in gangs or involved in drugs who carry knives because it makes them look and feel hard. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

The problem isn’t so much the taking of the drugs but the selling of the drugs, which has created turf wars and violence between the different gangs who are protecting their patch or trying to infiltrate some other gangs turf. 
But you are right that there is a lot of kids who may not be in gangs or involved in drugs who carry knives because it makes them look and feel hard. 

The selling is absolutely the problem and creates by government too. 

Prohibition has never worked. It only ever creates a black market. Just legalising weed alone would cripple crime and if taxed could fund a proper gang hunting division. It's so fucking simple and guaranteed to bring income that it's clearly full of faults

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

The selling is absolutely the problem and creates by government too. 

Prohibition has never worked. It only ever creates a black market. Just legalising weed alone would cripple crime and if taxed could fund a proper gang hunting division. It's so fucking simple and guaranteed to bring income that it's clearly full of faults

 

I’ll be honest I’m not against drugs for those who can afford them for recreational purposes, but when it becomes an addiction for those who can’t afford to pay for their addiction then it starts to become a problem on society through criminal activities. 
Legalising could help but there will always be a black market, we see that in tobacco and alcohol. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I’ll be honest I’m not against drugs for those who can afford them for recreational purposes, but when it becomes an addiction for those who can’t afford to pay for their addiction then it starts to become a problem on society through criminal activities. 
Legalising could help but there will always be a black market, we see that in tobacco and alcohol. 

Drugs are not affordable because they're on the black market exclusively. Legalise it/them and follow the tobacco and alcohol approach. 

Where's the black market for booze and tobacco?

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Drugs are not affordable because they're on the black market exclusively. Legalise it/them and follow the tobacco and alcohol approach. 

Where's the black market for booze and tobacco?

Where’s the black market for tobacco it was estimated that the value of smuggled tobacco by organised gangs was 2.3 billion pounds into the UK in 22-23

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Where’s the black market for tobacco it was estimated that the value of smuggled tobacco by organised gangs was 2.3 billion pounds into the UK in 22-23

Interesting. Not really a black market, it's just people getting around the tax thats supposed to put them off smoking and the government still takes in £10b from tobacco. But point taken. Imagine another £10b from weed in the kitty (half the supposed black hole in the budget). 

[StevO]

14 hours ago, Palfy said:

The problem isn’t so much the taking of the drugs but the selling of the drugs, which has created turf wars and violence between the different gangs who are protecting their patch or trying to infiltrate some other gangs turf. 
But you are right that there is a lot of kids who may not be in gangs or involved in drugs who carry knives because it makes them look and feel hard. 

Kids stab each other in situations that might have just been a fist fight when a lot of us were younger. It’s not always gangs, turf wars or criminal activity that leads to it. Very often it’s just kids having a fight only they carry knives, so it gets out of hand. 
 

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

Interesting. Not really a black market, it's just people getting around the tax thats supposed to put them off smoking and the government still takes in £10b from tobacco. But point taken. Imagine another £10b from weed in the kitty (half the supposed black hole in the budget). 

I think Palfy was referencing prohibition days for the black market. Though I may be wrong. 

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

Interesting. Not really a black market, it's just people getting around the tax thats supposed to put them off smoking and the government still takes in £10b from tobacco. But point taken. Imagine another £10b from weed in the kitty (half the supposed black hole in the budget). 

Weed and prostitution. 
 

Look the how the Dutch handle weed, and tax it. Not to mention the tourism it brings. 
Also how they handle prostitution.
I remember seeing when Australia legalised  it and they saw a massive drop in rape and abuse. They brought in tax dollars and a lot of women were able to work in a safer environment, and pay tax on their earnings. 

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7853gq38p1o

I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. The fucking Torys are the absolute scum of the earth. 

[Hafnia]

On 25/08/2024 at 21:57, StevO said:

Weed and prostitution. 
 

Look the how the Dutch handle weed, and tax it. Not to mention the tourism it brings. 
Also how they handle prostitution.
I remember seeing when Australia legalised  it and they saw a massive drop in rape and abuse. They brought in tax dollars and a lot of women were able to work in a safer environment, and pay tax on their earnings. 

I'm interested in the use of psychedelics - never tried them but the potential in treating all sorts from ptsd, depression, adhd, ocd means our government needs to lift restrictions to enable the medical world to treat people with these issues.

been reading up on people micro dosing mushrooms - it's clearly happening with people growing them and having no option but treating themselves..... there will be risks so why not alleviate them and ensure people take them in right settings/purity/dose? 

anyone had any experience with this? I've seen people go on retreats abroad etc 

 

[Hafnia]

I watched a Michael pollan film on Netflix - "changing your mind".   Some scenes were absolutely heartbreaking and eye opening. People having guided trips and revisiting unresolved trauma going back to when they were babies. One man felt like all his issues went away.... one man with crippling ocd was cured, he said he felt his brain was rewired. 
 

I've long believed that nature holds many cures 

[patto]

Labour are a disgrace the answer to every question seems to be 22 billion black hole but it’s ok for MPs to claim nearly 4K on heating their second homes. 
it’s time to do away with the House of Lords also that’s another disgrace. 

[Matt]

35 minutes ago, patto said:

Labour are a disgrace the answer to every question seems to be 22 billion black hole but it’s ok for MPs to claim nearly 4K on heating their second homes. 
it’s time to do away with the House of Lords also that’s another disgrace. 

How are Labour a disgrace for a second economic blackhole created by the Torys?

[StevO]

6 hours ago, patto said:

Labour are a disgrace the answer to every question seems to be 22 billion black hole but it’s ok for MPs to claim nearly 4K on heating their second homes. 
it’s time to do away with the House of Lords also that’s another disgrace. 

You don’t think the people that created the 22 billion black hole could be a problem?

[patto]

Of course the Tory’s are responsible for the 22 billion black hole but they aren’t in power now. 
Starmer and his party can’t just keep harping on about the 22 billion black hole every time they are asked a question. 
it’s the bus passes next why not stop giving billions away to other countries. 

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, patto said:

Of course the Tory’s are responsible for the 22 billion black hole but they aren’t in power now. 
Starmer and his party can’t just keep harping on about the 22 billion black hole every time they are asked a question. 
it’s the bus passes next why not stop giving billions away to other countries. 

You do understand that undoing a £22b deficit will take years right? You can't have a government correct the 2 crashes caused by the Torys (Sunak 2008 and Truss 2022) over 2 decades in 2 months.

This fucking country is so impatient, though it's a relief to see it's not just Evertonitis. Wonder why we can't have nice things? Because people don't want the accept the fact that necessary, ugly, hard work cannot be over and done with in weeks and months when scars and surgeries are required that take 3+ years minimum.

[Matt]

That was a lot of corrections, life without caffeine is hard

[patto]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

That was a lot of corrections, life with caffeine is hard

It’s no use going on about the 22 billion black hole and then making it bigger by giving billions away every year. 

[Matt]

11 minutes ago, patto said:

It’s no use going on about the 22 billion black hole and then making it bigger by giving billions away every year. 

The "giving away" is part of the budget, so it's not making any deficit larger. The "giving away" is also hugely important for the country's well being too (something else Sunak chopped whilst flying around in helicopters) and it's a target we've rarely achieved.

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/uk-aid-explainer-what-is-it-where-does-it-go/

A decent high-level summary 

[Romey 1878]

The Tory's were still blaming Labour after 14 years so I think we can allow Labour to still be mentioning the Tory's after a couple of months.

[patto]

Regardless of what’s going on he has confirmed one thing that he is a blatant liar on all levels the whole government are corrupt not only Labour the lot of them all in it to line their own pockets.

they don’t care about the people one iota 

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, patto said:

Regardless of what’s going on he has confirmed one thing that he is a blatant liar on all levels the whole government are corrupt not only Labour the lot of them all in it to line their own pockets.

they don’t care about the people one iota 

The government runs the country. The people are secondary to that and always will be.