General Election/UK Politics

[barryj]

 

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

So help me out here.... if I battered a police woman I get arrested - released and they review evidence and not charged with anything? At what stage do I go to magistrates??? Something not right here. They broke a policewoman's nose and were not charged? Come on, you get charged that very night normally. 

Black lives matters protesters climbed on the cenotaph and lit fire to the union flag - assaulted police, pulled down statues and starmer took a knee. At the stage where starmer called Southport protesters right wing thugs there had been no hotels set on fire or places of worship.  I understand this has since happened and is beyond appalling. 

I'm well aware of the issues we have with white people of this country blue - more than aware. There are some absolute vile people around - yet the majority of white people are good hard working people.  Starmer has divided the people with his out of touch reaction to recent events. 
 

his inability to deal with issues with equal measure is to his detriment. It's not whataboutery its inconsistency.   He's under no illusions - he needs to make sure he gets things right. 
 

I've been all for zero tolerance right across the board - right across the board being the point.  The reactions to these riots are absolutely right - call the animals and thugs out. The problem is they didn't do this before and that's what's causing it. 
 

just seen that extra powers to remove face coverings has been given..... why only now?! It's been needed for years, get facial recognition and all that stuff and have it in force in residential areas where kids are using knives to steal bikes.   Again..... why only now?! 
 

every single person who has punched kicked thrown things at police should be given an automatic custodial sentence. Again - let's see this across the board 

 

it's great that starmer has said he will get all the people involved - could he extend that to all the other crimes in the community like burglaries that don't even get solved? My mate left the police cos the call outs were not getting done. 

Police unfortunately get assaulted all to regularly and not everyone who assaults an officer gets remanded. You have to meet the remand criteria and the CPS will want medical evidence of the level of injury before deciding on the charge. This takes time. I can’t comment on individual cases but if the threshold is met they will get charged. I can promise you this isnt different to numerous similar cases whatever the race, sex or religion. 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, barryj said:

 

Police unfortunately get assaulted all to regularly and not everyone who assaults an officer gets remanded. You have to meet the remand criteria and the CPS will want medical evidence of the level of injury before deciding on the charge. This takes time. I can’t comment on individual cases but if the threshold is met they will get charged. I can promise you this isnt different to numerous similar cases whatever the race, sex or religion. 

But that doesn’t suit the agenda and narrative of those who see it as just an immigration or religious issue, that is prominently aimed at people of colour in this country. 
We have a great tradition of painting everyone with the same brush if they bear any resemblance to someone who has committed a heinous crime in this country, and more so if they come from a section of society made up of the above mentioned group. 
But you are right Barry the law is there to take control and prosecute where it can and everybody is equal in the eyes of the law, and yes things can occasionally go wrong as in any organisation, but the law and it’s officers and investigators need the time investigate, without another small group of extremists rioting in our streets as a ruse  for some form of justice and taking the law into their own hands.  

[Romey 1878]

This morning, a lot of people are experiencing fuck around and find out - losing jobs, getting arrested etc - and it is fucking glorious.

[Hafnia]

22 hours ago, barryj said:

 

Police unfortunately get assaulted all to regularly and not everyone who assaults an officer gets remanded. You have to meet the remand criteria and the CPS will want medical evidence of the level of injury before deciding on the charge. This takes time. I can’t comment on individual cases but if the threshold is met they will get charged. I can promise you this isnt different to numerous similar cases whatever the race, sex or religion. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-67949379.amp
 

so again... help me out a fan was arrested and falsely charged. No 2 week wait - clearly the cps didn't review the evidence before the police brought charges.  Not the same is it? The evidence showed  the police at fault in this instance. 

im telling you all quite clearly - the biggest issue in this country is two tier. I'm all for zero tolerance - it's not whataboutery - I want 3 strikes and out, I want national service for young offenders, I want facial recognition, I want non religious face coverings banned, I want bikes being licensed. 

starmer is opening 24 hour courts for the people already arrested and charged for the unrest - we had 2 men assaulting armed police in an airport and nothing?!  People rioted in Leeds and not a word said?????

This country ain't gonna improve till the government and police treat all people the same. 

 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

But that doesn’t suit the agenda and narrative of those who see it as just an immigration or religious issue, that is prominently aimed at people of colour in this country. 
We have a great tradition of painting everyone with the same brush if they bear any resemblance to someone who has committed a heinous crime in this country, and more so if they come from a section of society made up of the above mentioned group. 
But you are right Barry the law is there to take control and prosecute where it can and everybody is equal in the eyes of the law, and yes things can occasionally go wrong as in any organisation, but the law and it’s officers and investigators need the time investigate, without another small group of extremists rioting in our streets as a ruse  for some form of justice and taking the law into their own hands.  

But palfy - the police and government aren't disarming the excuse to riot from the idiots who just wanna be involved in something other than smoking weed, drinking Stella and being generally unpleasant people. These people aren't arsed about the cause of discontent - they just know it's there and say "gonna be a protest - let's get there and get it kicking off" - they aren't bothered in the slightest about reasons cos they are too thick - all they see is "different colour or police = enemy"
 

There is genuine and credible discontent in the country - it's all very well for us who live in unaffected areas to be all righteous and tut away.  Listen to people with an educated opinion and an ability to convey their observations - it's not difficult. There are enough independent stations and channels out there that allow people to call in and express their views. 

I played golf with a headmaster who moved away from Rochdale - lived there all his life. Has 2 little girls and based on what he knew (because of his role) he moved his family away from a place where he lived all his life.  That scandal and how it was handled will be one of the biggest regrets our government and police have. 
 

it's really easy to just point the finger at the scum cos it's quite evident what they are when you see them. The government knew there was a boiling point getting reached - starmer is tone deaf.  
 

"We hear you frustrations - will make things better. Go inside, let us work these problems, let us listen to all people's concerns. This is not the answer" - that would have been the message he should have spoken.  What he did was pour petrol on a bonfire. Couldn't believe it. 

[barryj]

6 hours ago, Hafnia said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-67949379.amp
 

so again... help me out a fan was arrested and falsely charged. No 2 week wait - clearly the cps didn't review the evidence before the police brought charges.  Not the same is it? The evidence showed  the police at fault in this instance. 

im telling you all quite clearly - the biggest issue in this country is two tier. I'm all for zero tolerance - it's not whataboutery - I want 3 strikes and out, I want national service for young offenders, I want facial recognition, I want face coverings banned, I want bikes being licensed. 

starmer is opening 24 hour courts for the people already arrested and charged for the unrest - we had 2 men assaulting armed police in an airport and nothing?!  People rioted in Leeds and not a word said?????

This country ain't gonna improve till the government and police treat all people the same. 

 

The incident happened on 4th March and he was cleared on 8th of January. I think you’ve just evidenced the contrary, to the point you were trying to prove? That’s a wait of just over 10 months. As I’ve said before the justice system takes time. 

[Hafnia]

51 minutes ago, barryj said:

The incident happened on 4th March and he was cleared on 8th of January. I think you’ve just evidenced the contrary, to the point you were trying to prove? That’s a wait of just over 10 months. As I’ve said before the justice system takes time. 

He was cleared in court but was charged immediately - the lads at Manchester airport haven't even been charged. 

when you are arrested for an offence like that you should be charged and the charge sheet details what you will be investigated for.  Why hasn't this happened? 
 

2/3 of charges are made by the police - and this likely sits in that bracket.

 

The CPS simply need to answer 1. Is there enough evidence to support a realistic convictiction

2.  Is it in public interest?

But I do not for one second think this is with the cps. If it does there should be charges but I believe like the riots - this assault on the police sits with the police themselves.

So if voilent rioters have already been charged - why haven't these lads???

are you starting to understand where I am with double standards? Lets get hardline with all criminals - absolutely but let's get things done equally so they can all whinge about how harshly they've been dealt with together in big giant prisons freshly built to make Britain a safer place - and not in the 10000 spaces made by releasing criminals early from overcrowded prisons 

 

 

 

[London Blue]

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

He was cleared in court but was charged immediately - the lads at Manchester airport haven't even been charged. 

when you are arrested for an offence like that you should be charged and the charge sheet details what you will be investigated for.  Why hasn't this happened? 
 

2/3 of charges are made by the police - and this likely sits in that bracket.

 

The CPS simply need to answer 1. Is there enough evidence to support a realistic convictiction

2.  Is it in public interest?

But I do not for one second think this is with the cps. If it does there should be charges but I believe like the riots - this assault on the police sits with the police themselves.

So if voilent rioters have already been charged - why haven't these lads???

are you starting to understand where I am with double standards? Lets get hardline with all criminals - absolutely but let's get things done equally so they can all whinge about how harshly they've been dealt with together in big giant prisons freshly built to make Britain a safer place - and not in the 10000 spaces made by releasing criminals early from overcrowded prisons 

 

 

 

Haff you cam rant and rage at supposed double standards that simply are not there. As others have said, each case is assessed on its merits by the cps and when/if the threshold is passed a charging decision is made. Sometimes this takes hours, sometimes months. Given the number of witnesses at the airport incident it would not surprise me if the cps wanted statements from all of them before making a decision. 

The police make very few charging decisions, by law the vast majority have to be made by the cps as they are the legal experts and a fresh set of eyes to make sure that anyone being charged has enough evidence to secure a conviction. This is a fact Haff.

There is a great article below I hope you read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx66dkx3wlo

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

Haff you cam rant and rage at supposed double standards that simply are not there. As others have said, each case is assessed on its merits by the cps and when/if the threshold is passed a charging decision is made. Sometimes this takes hours, sometimes months. Given the number of witnesses at the airport incident it would not surprise me if the cps wanted statements from all of them before making a decision. 

The police make very few charging decisions, by law the vast majority have to be made by the cps as they are the legal experts and a fresh set of eyes to make sure that anyone being charged has enough evidence to secure a conviction. This is a fact Haff.

There is a great article below I hope you read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx66dkx3wlo

Not ranting and raving. 

so how have numerous people been charged with violent disorder for the riots over past few days and the people at the airport haven't?

Tell me what is different? - violence on police - captured on Video, arrested and charged. 

I understand you are a company man but trust me when I tell you that as someone who has a close relative who is an inspector, best mate a detective sergeant, and knows numerous others pretty well - I have had this conversation many times and more than one has stated their discomfort with the direction the force is heading. 

Telling me there isn't two tier is bollocks? You wanna tell me why detective maggie Oliver had to resign to expose the force failing in the Rochdale scandal, you ever read the report? - like I said I know a headmaster who moved his whole family from the area, people knew but police did nothing. 

Ever read the one about Telford??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-62149438

more failings.  So please don't tell me there isn't a two tier approach 

my expectation is "I don't give a shit what you look like or what community you belong to - whether you are that bbc newsreader or member of a gang from whatever origin - you are getting done". 

[London Blue]

Yes Haff I have, it was shocking failures by the Police and council. But there was an investigation the failings highlighted and recommendations implemented. As the report also states Operation Challce saw 7 men arrested for those heinous crimes.

Everyone can find failings, but there simply is not the evidence to prove a two tier approach. There are mistakes and failings as people and organisations make errors and we learn from them. 

You are ranting Haff as despite being told numerous times why it can take time for charging decisions, you continue to vainly search for events and incidents to back up your baseless theories. Post hoc ergo proptor hock is something I would urge you to look up.

You can believe the evidence or continue to read Spiked and listen to GB news without seeking balance from other news sources. All you get is an ever angrier echo chamber looking for conspiracies that are not there and twisting events to suit your own inflammatory version of reality. 

 

[Palfy]

Just been watching the news the residents, relatives and friends of those caught up in the Southport murders and attempted murders, everyone of them condemned the riots that have taken place over the country, I take my hat off to them, you would think that they would have had more of an axe to grind than most  but none of it.

Those who think that rioting is the answer are the problem not the cure, justice will be done to the murderer of those innocent young lives through the law of this country, which works and we are all blessed to live in country that up holds law and order, there are millions up on millions of people in the world who would dearly love to live in a society like ours, with the safety of our police and judiciary system looking after their rights and freedoms.

And those who get arrested for committing crimes during the riots, I hope they are charged and given the maximum sentence allowed for their actions, and for those caught carrying out arson attacks that could have endangered the lives of others they should receive a life sentence.  

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

Yes Haff I have, it was shocking failures by the Police and council. But there was an investigation the failings highlighted and recommendations implemented. As the report also states Operation Challce saw 7 men arrested for those heinous crimes.

Everyone can find failings, but there simply is not the evidence to prove a two tier approach. There are mistakes and failings as people and organisations make errors and we learn from them. 

You are ranting Haff as despite being told numerous times why it can take time for charging decisions, you continue to vainly search for events and incidents to back up your baseless theories. Post hoc ergo proptor hock is something I would urge you to look up.

You can believe the evidence or continue to read Spiked and listen to GB news without seeking balance from other news sources. All you get is an ever angrier echo chamber looking for conspiracies that are not there and twisting events to suit your own inflammatory version of reality. 

 

Not ranting at all... repeating my assertion that there is a two tier approach. There is - you won't convince me with words, just in the same way that someone who works for McDonald's will never convince me that they use the best of beef for the quarter pounders. 

Do we need to have more costly enquiries to establish the psychology behind two tier policing isn't necessarily out of corruption but out of fear - and that people lacking in moral bravery are putting their families and pensions first? It's not beyond comprehension that it's normal for an average person to think that way. 

Stop trying to defend when you need to improve - my wife is a long standing nurse and has become a sister not because of promotion but to actually try and improve what she considers poor nursing standards. she is strong enough, fair enough and has an abundance of integrity to be able to say "not good enough". She calls out double standards - will argue against seniority and will tell long standing friends if they aren't up to scratch.   Does she get offended when nurses are criticised? No - she thinks standards have slipped since she started. 
 

don't tell me black is white - i know more than enough to base my opinion without looking at the huge uplift in disciplinaries amongst the Met. There are some top officers out there and I'm sure you are one of them - but please do not tell me that things ain't two tier. 

Not twisting any events - I'll leave MSM to do that. I'm able to form opinions based on what I know. Not what I hear from news feeds - actual police officers mate. Not ones who want to tell you all is fluffy and pure in their world.  You seem to assume I use alternative news sources ..... far from it. Horses mouth mate. 
 

33000 met officers - 60 a month predicted to get the sack over next 2 years. 1000 currently under investigation? Imagine goodison park - with 33000 and 1000 of those in attendance weren't fit to be in attendance.   Quite a large proportion. 
 

you keep saying it takes time.... why have 2 lads who broke a policewomans nose and attacked an officer from behind not been charged but those in riots been charged already??? Please tell me "why" - not some take longer. Comparative crimes - violence on police and two caught on camera not charged. Why?  - not "it takes time" 

At least you can't grab my phone off me like "sir mark" - your gaffer - not setting a good example there. Wouldn't go as far as calling it far right behaviour but vandalism none the less 

Update:- he apologised for trying to move the microphone out of his path and it ending on the floor. yeah alright mate. Just one of those type of Ronaldo type accidents. 
 

final comment on it:- I hate riots, sickening and vile, the country is a mess. The government and police need to take responsibility for their part in understanding the discontent in the country. Till they do things ain't gonna improve. Scum will always be there ready to take advantage and sadly the failing of the government have created the vacuum. They need to look at themselves as much as the people they are arresting. 

[KinL]

No two-tier policing? 

[KinL]

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, KinL said:

No two-tier policing? 

What offences were there that needed policing in that situation exactly?

Did the video stop before they started chucking bricks and setting stuff of fire?

[KinL]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

What offences were there that needed policing in that situation exactly?

Did the video stop before they started chucking bricks and setting stuff of fire?

Did they treat the other lot like this before they started throwing bricks and setting stuff on fire? No doubt you'll be ignoring all the Muslim violence that's online that's been getting dished out to lone White people though. The point is Mike, they all need to be treated the same, taken off the streets and jailed. Scum is scum, regardless of skin colour and religion. Do you think that cunt Starmer is telling the police to ask the White rioters to please go and drop their weapons off at the church?

[KinL]

Is this OK?

[MikeO]

7 minutes ago, KinL said:

Did they treat the other lot like this before they started throwing bricks and setting stuff on fire? No doubt you'll be ignoring all the Muslim violence that's online that's been getting dished out to lone White people though. The point is Mike, they all need to be treated the same, taken off the streets and jailed. Scum is scum, regardless of skin colour and religion. Do you think that cunt Starmer is telling the police to ask the White rioters to please go and drop their weapons off at the church?

Just asked a simple question.

If Tommy Robinson's muckers tried to engage the police in calm conversation about their grievances before kicking off I'm sure you can find a video of it.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

. 

I understand you are a company man but trust me when I tell you that as someone who has a close relative who is an inspector, best mate a detective sergeant, and knows numerous others pretty well - I have had this conversation many times and more than one has stated their discomfort with the direction the force is heading. 

 

Probably not the time and place for a laugh and a joke but this really reminded me of a kid from our primary school who would often say shit like “my dads a copper so I know the law”

My Sister is a judge, I actually studied law too (20 years ago). I won’t be passing an opinion. 
 

LB deals with this stuff daily, I’m not sure second hand anecdotal evidence will be as accurate as his actual area of expertise. You know some police, he is the police!  

[KinL]

How about this one?

 

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, KinL said:

How about this one?

 

After the way I’ve seen people of colour treated the last few days, if I was one of them I’d also be rounding up my mates to try to protect ourselves too. You attack people they attack back. 
 

But the shit that’s gone on for the last few days right across the country was not provoked. It was absolute cowardly rioting and looting. And before I hear the word protest, there wasn’t protest, there was violence. And before I hear Southport, it was fuck all to do with that. These cunts used the death of kids for their own excuse to go and kick off. 

[StevO]

I can’t believe Turning Point UK is being used as an example on TT either. More right wing pieces of shit. 

[StevO]

 

[London Blue]

Haff, I'm not going to keep repeating the same factual information again and again. As others have said these violent idiots have been using the murder of 3 girls to commit racially motivated violent crime, and others have been giving them cover by shouting "two tier Britain". 

There is Inequality in our country based on income, education and health, but none of this is the fault of people of any faith or culture. It is the fault of previous governments failure to overcome them with the right policies. To blame a group of people and attack them is just wrong. To use the death of children to mask racist behaviour is just sick.

The facts have been pointed out, you can believe them or not, but they will remain facts.

Anyone who uses groups like Turning Point as their evidence is not worth replying too.

[Hafnia]

24 minutes ago, StevO said:

Probably not the time and place for a laugh and a joke but this really reminded me of a kid from our primary school who would often say shit like “my dads a copper so I know the law”

My Sister is a judge, I actually studied law too (20 years ago). I won’t be passing an opinion. 
 

LB deals with this stuff daily, I’m not sure second hand anecdotal evidence will be as accurate as his actual area of expertise. You know some police, he is the police!  

Do you want me to detail exact names and relationships with the people I know? They aren't lids.....  by that I'm not talking scouse terminology. 

It's not anecdotal - I spent many nights in London with many members of the met, been on lads holidays the lot. My best mate has 30 years under his belt across 2 different forces on both sides of the fence. I also have a very close friend who left on principle ........ I hear how other police officers operate, how politics plays a huge part. 

So as much as blue will tell us all is super - I know it's not.  Why - you reckon the police are all equal and perfect in how they operate?
 

He is the police? Ffs - mate he works for them. Since when does that mean you get the honest opinion. Work with loads of people who think the people who pay your wages are great. 

[Hafnia]

20 minutes ago, StevO said:

I can’t believe Turning Point UK is being used as an example on TT either. More right wing pieces of shit. 

Isn't anything that isn't far left - right wing nowadays? Is that you sir keir???

[London Blue]

Whatever Haff, whatever  

[KinL]

10 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Haff, I'm not going to keep repeating the same factual information again and again. As others have said these violent idiots have been using the murder of 3 girls to commit racially motivated violent crime, and others have been giving them cover by shouting "two tier Britain". 

There is Inequality in our country based on income, education and health, but none of this is the fault of people of any faith or culture. It is the fault of previous governments failure to overcome them with the right policies. To blame a group of people and attack them is just wrong. To use the death of children to mask racist behaviour is just sick.

The facts have been pointed out, you can believe them or not, but they will remain facts.

Anyone who uses groups like Turning Point as their evidence is not worth replying too.

Is the video real or fake, why should it matter where it came from if it happened? In all honesty, I don't even know what turning point is, I never usually get involved in politics of any kind, but it showed up on X along with other clips of the riots.

[StevO]

 

[Hafnia]

32 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Haff, I'm not going to keep repeating the same factual information again and again. As others have said these violent idiots have been using the murder of 3 girls to commit racially motivated violent crime, and others have been giving them cover by shouting "two tier Britain". 

There is Inequality in our country based on income, education and health, but none of this is the fault of people of any faith or culture. It is the fault of previous governments failure to overcome them with the right policies. To blame a group of people and attack them is just wrong. To use the death of children to mask racist behaviour is just sick.

The facts have been pointed out, you can believe them or not, but they will remain facts.

Anyone who uses groups like Turning Point as their evidence is not worth replying too.

Wow. You been reading your briefs from your boss. 

who has said these riots are because of the vile murders of the babies? I find it distasteful to use those poor babies as a means to shame thugs. Let the families grieve, why are press asking their friends about riots? 

Riots have sadly been a long time in the making, tensions were high before that animal murdered the girls.  Really got your finger on the pulse haven't you blue.

people are sick and tired of not being listened to about legitimate concerns. Being gaslighted by the new government kicked this off. 
 

when did I use turning point as evidence? Get it right