General Election/UK Politics

[Matt]

12 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You've completely missed the point. Going after the vulnerable when there are other ways to go is wrong.

What a party.

I don't believe they didn't know about the hole in the budget when they made their promises either because there were people saying that would be the case during the election.

It won't be one or the other, it'll be all the above because the hole is so big. It's also quite misleading to suggest that Labour is only going to target the weak/poor/vulnerable and ignore the rest. 

I've not missed the point mate. I know what's being driven at but a tweet even if it is from a Lord with a PhD isn't enough to ignore the bigger picture. We're all going to get fucked in the next couple of years. The phrasing of the tweet is very leading, I'm not passing judgement yet. 

[Romey 1878]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

It won't be one or the other, it'll be all the above because the hole is so big. It's also quite misleading to suggest that Labour is only going to target the weak/poor/vulnerable and ignore the rest. 

I've not missed the point mate. I know what's being driven at but a tweet even if it is from a Lord with a PhD isn't enough to ignore the bigger picture. We're all going to get fucked in the next couple of years. The phrasing of the tweet is very leading, I'm not passing judgement yet. 

We'll see.

They've been telling who they are the whole time, and I get you need to try and see the best in them because you voted for them, but you should probably start believing them.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

We'll see.

They've been telling who they are the whole time, and I get you need to try and see the best in them because you voted for them, but you should probably start believing them.

I voted for them because I thought they were the best alternative overall. I'm much more of a green/lib dem guy going on the politico checker, but none of them have the experience of running a country let alone a bankrupt one that's in a proxy war with a nuclear superpower. I expect Labour do a Dyche and stabilise things regardless of if the approach is ugly. How they do it will be judged on how successful they have been. 

If that's the sole approach they take I'll be right in the MPs face. But it won't be for the sole fact that the hole is enormous.

[Palfy]

I think Rom is coming from a standpoint that anyone who voted Labour or tactically voted for someone to stop the Tories winning a seat, are too blame for anything that goes wrong in the next parliament, and he isn’t because he voted Green. 
Get off your high horse mate accusing others whilst absolving yourself from any repercussions, criticism, or responsibility, what did your vote achieve in making a change nothing, at least those who voted Labour or tactically voted to stop the Tories, achieved the change that the whole nation required from every area of the country, to get rid of the scourge of the corrupt Tory regime, you should be thanking everyone who voted Labour and tactically not condemning them, unless of course you were happy with the Tories. 

[Romey 1878]

28 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I think Rom is coming from a standpoint that anyone who voted Labour or tactically voted for someone to stop the Tories winning a seat, are too blame for anything that goes wrong in the next parliament, and he isn’t because he voted Green. 
Get off your high horse mate accusing others whilst absolving yourself from any repercussions, criticism, or responsibility, what did your vote achieve in making a change nothing, at least those who voted Labour or tactically voted to stop the Tories, achieved the change that the whole nation required from every area of the country, to get rid of the scourge of the corrupt Tory regime, you should be thanking everyone who voted Labour and tactically not condemning them, unless of course you were happy with the Tories. 

No.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

No.

Why?

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Why?

Because that's not what he's said?

[Matt]

And even if that was what he's getting at, he's not wrong. I played my card now I have to see how the hand plays out. If Labour do go full Tory more than necessary they'll lose a generation of voters so I don't think they will.

[Palfy]

On 26/06/2024 at 00:08, Romey 1878 said:

I didn’t even need to hold my nose because I didn’t give my vote to Labour, so my conscience remains clean. 

Does that make those who voted Labour dirty in your opinion. 

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Does that make those who voted Labour dirty in your opinion. 

 

You really are a fucking idiot.

No, it doesn't.

[Romey 1878]

Now this is positive.

 

[Palfy]

14 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

You really are a fucking idiot.

No, it doesn't.

Mixed messages then. 

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Mixed messages then. 

Only to someone that doesn't realise it's an expression used when you do something that you don't really want to do.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Only to someone that doesn't realise it's an expression used when you do something that you don't really want to do.

What have you done that you didn’t want to do?

[Romey 1878]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

What have you done that you didn’t want to do?

I was saying that I didn't have to hold my nose while voting for Labour (which would have been something I didn't want to do) because I didn't vote for them in the end.

Do you understand now?

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I was saying that I didn't have to hold my nose while voting for Labour (which would have been something I didn't want to do) because I didn't vote for them in the end.

Do you understand now?

I get that now, the clean conscience bit through me

[Romey 1878]

24 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I get that now, the clean conscience bit through me

That must've hurt, I hear conscience has quite the bite on it.

[Cornish Steve]

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

I have six children, and I can tell you that the added cost per child after the first two does diminish. Why not compromise and have a progressive reduction after the first two?

[Matt]

55 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I have six children, and I can tell you that the added cost per child after the first two does diminish. Why not compromise and have a progressive reduction after the first two?

Because that contains the word compromise and politics is about winning (or at least lose less badly than the opposition).

[Romey 1878]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

Because that contains the word compromise and politics is about winning (or at least lose less badly than the opposition).

I believe there a hell of a lot of decent politicians that genuinely want to improve things for people. The problem is that none of them are ever allowed to get into a position of power so that they can make a difference.

It's all a con.

[Palfy]

Parents or a parent with multiple children who are struggling financially to give their kids a better life should get means tested support. But we have to make sure that any support goes to the children it was aimed at, this could be accomplished in many ways other than cash paid directly to the parent or parents, what concerns me with just dishing out cash is how do we monitor it to make sure the children it was aimed at benefit from it, and it isn’t spent on cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, or gambling sites, which we must be aware of because a very small minority will put their self’s before others even their own children, and that’s just the reality of the society we live in today. 
Personally I believe all help from the government should be means tested, and someone who has salary over a certain amount should not receive assistance, the same for pensions, I would for go my state pension and other benefits if my personal pension/ pensions meant I didn’t need the help of a state pension. 
I remember many years ago watching something on TV about people of means getting the same benefits as those who had nothing but the states help, this retired couple who were very wealthy made a point of saying that they go to village post office to draw their state pension then go into the pub and spend it all that day on drinks for themselves and their friends. 
We need to stop handing money to people just because it’s their right even though they don’t need it, let’s look after those in need first and last £12,579.00 is not needed by quite a few people as £70.00-80.00 a week isn’t too many more in child benefits. 

[patto]

On 30/07/2024 at 20:31, Palfy said:

Parents or a parent with multiple children who are struggling financially to give their kids a better life should get means tested support. But we have to make sure that any support goes to the children it was aimed at, this could be accomplished in many ways other than cash paid directly to the parent or parents, what concerns me with just dishing out cash is how do we monitor it to make sure the children it was aimed at benefit from it, and it isn’t spent on cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, or gambling sites, which we must be aware of because a very small minority will put their self’s before others even their own children, and that’s just the reality of the society we live in today. 
Personally I believe all help from the government should be means tested, and someone who has salary over a certain amount should not receive assistance, the same for pensions, I would for go my state pension and other benefits if my personal pension/ pensions meant I didn’t need the help of a state pension. 
I remember many years ago watching something on TV about people of means getting the same benefits as those who had nothing but the states help, this retired couple who were very wealthy made a point of saying that they go to village post office to draw their state pension then go into the pub and spend it all that day on drinks for themselves and their friends. 
We need to stop handing money to people just because it’s their right even though they don’t need it, let’s look after those in need first and last £12,579.00 is not needed by quite a few people as £70.00-80.00 a week isn’t too many more in child benefits. 

Means testing will only affect genuine people it won’t affect the corrupt we can’t keep up with them how can 4 people have 6.000 universal credit accounts and not be detected by our government they stole 50m over a period of 4 years allegedly. 
there is a reason the country is bankrupt but no one has the balls to solve it. 
if your going to means test let’s start at the top and make a law to take some of their money.  

[Hafnia]

Hasn't taken starmer long to make me dislike him.  

see the government have pivoted the awful murders of little girls in Southport into it being about controlling "the mob" who took to the streets.  Funny how one set of rioters are treated differently to others.  The underbelly of angry opportunists are always lurking ready to take advantage of a situation - always have been from every side. 

no one trusts people in power anymore cos they treat Joe Public as idiots and cannon fodder. 

Diversion tactics are the usual strategy of all governments.  They understand that the country is at the brink of civil unrest - this will have been known prior to the Manchester airport incident.   They have handled issues appallingly for some time now. 

country is the worse I've known it.  Devastating.  What happened on Monday is the most sickening thing I've seen since James Bulger was murdered. No words. My heart is broken for the poor families of those little girls. 

 

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Hasn't taken starmer long to make me dislike him.  

see the government have pivoted the awful murders of little girls in Southport into it being about controlling "the mob" who took to the streets.  Funny how one set of rioters are treated differently to others.  The underbelly of angry opportunists are always lurking ready to take advantage of a situation - always have been from every side. 

no one trusts people in power anymore cos they treat Joe Public as idiots and cannon fodder. 

Diversion tactics are the usual strategy of all governments.  They understand that the country is at the brink of civil unrest - this will have been known prior to the Manchester airport incident.   They have handled issues appallingly for some time now. 

country is the worse I've known it.  Devastating.  What happened on Monday is the most sickening thing I've seen since James Bulger was murdered. No words. My heart is broken for the poor families of those little girls. 

 

From what I'm reading, though, there's a lot of misinformation floating around and many activists stirring up trouble. The murderer is a British citizen, born in Britain. It doesn't take much to light the tinder laid by Reform UK suggesting immigrants are all evil.

[Zoo 2.0]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Hasn't taken starmer long to make me dislike him.  

see the government have pivoted the awful murders of little girls in Southport into it being about controlling "the mob" who took to the streets.  Funny how one set of rioters are treated differently to others.  The underbelly of angry opportunists are always lurking ready to take advantage of a situation - always have been from every side. 

no one trusts people in power anymore cos they treat Joe Public as idiots and cannon fodder. 

Diversion tactics are the usual strategy of all governments.  They understand that the country is at the brink of civil unrest - this will have been known prior to the Manchester airport incident.   They have handled issues appallingly for some time now. 

country is the worse I've known it.  Devastating.  What happened on Monday is the most sickening thing I've seen since James Bulger was murdered. No words. My heart is broken for the poor families of those little girls. 

 

The events on Monday made me for the first time in my life seriously consider the prospect of emigration, I've never felt so disconnected from the country in which I live and as a father feel an overwhelming amount of responsibility to give my children the best life possible - I don't see the UK improving anytime soon and despite being somewhat pleased the Tories finally left, Labour (from what I've seen) have been despicable.

The UK is absolutely fucked, and is heading towards Civil War on the streets.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

From what I'm reading, though, there's a lot of misinformation floating around and many activists stirring up trouble. The murderer is a British citizen, born in Britain. It doesn't take much to light the tinder laid by Reform UK suggesting immigrants are all evil.

Yeah you are right Steve.... having parents coming to our country from a place where the murder rate is 4 times greater than the USA has absolutely no influence on a child's upbringing.

Talking absolute crap. For someone who likes to categorise English people so willingly you suddenly think cultures don't exist?

the lefty bingo card is brimming tonight... the 17 year old "boy" had autism...... ah right - are they gonna do a sequel to Rainman now with Dustin Hoffman going on a murder spree? - or is that just another bit of woke deflection by a government who have failed. 

absolutely disgusting, ASD seemingly being used as a card to explain a person committing savagery to babies? They have tried the lot to deflect the anger. 
 

For the record - immigration isn't the issue, having people exist in our country who should be/or are on watch lists and aren't prevented is.  There will be more to come from this - be under no illusions about that. The reaction of the government and MSM makes that very clear. 

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Yeah you are right Steve.... having parents coming to our country from a place where the murder rate is 4 times greater than the USA has absolutely no influence on a child's upbringing.

Talking absolute crap. For someone who likes to categorise English people so willingly you suddenly think cultures don't exist?

the lefty bingo card is brimming tonight... the 17 year old "boy" had autism...... ah right - are they gonna do a sequel to Rainman now with Dustin Hoffman going on a murder spree? - or is that just another bit of woke deflection by a government who have failed. 

absolutely disgusting, ASD seemingly being used as a card to explain a person committing savagery to babies? They have tried the lot to deflect the anger. 
 

For the record - immigration isn't the issue, having people exist in our country who should be/or are on watch lists and aren't prevented is.  There will be more to come from this - be under no illusions about that. The reaction of the government and MSM makes that very clear. 

So how many generations does it take for a citizen to become a "real citizen"? One, two, three? Does it depend on where their ancestors lived - Europe, Africa, Asia, Commonwealth country? The guy is a British citizen born in Britain. Why is the murder rate in the country of his parents at all relevant if he never lived there? From what I've read, he was born and raised in Britain.

Yes, this is a terrible atrocity. Thank goodness Britain has severe restrictions on guns since it could have been worse. But let's not raise suspicion that anyone whose parents or grandparents were born outside Britain (specifically in a country where skin colour is different) is a suspected murderer. That's a Trump trope.

Four of my six children were born in the US, a country where mass shootings are through the roof. Does that mean if my children, who are British citizens, should choose to live in Britain, they'll be viewed as possible murderers? Probably not since they're white and no-one would know.

What we absolutely must avoid is creating a society in which we view those different from us with constant suspicion.

[Hafnia]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

So how many generations does it take for a citizen to become a "real citizen"? One, two, three? Does it depend on where their ancestors lived - Europe, Africa, Asia, Commonwealth country? The guy is a British citizen born in Britain. Why is the murder rate in the country of his parents at all relevant if he never lived there? From what I've read, he was born and raised in Britain.

Yes, this is a terrible atrocity. Thank goodness Britain has severe restrictions on guns since it could have been worse. But let's not raise suspicion that anyone whose parents or grandparents were born outside Britain (specifically in a country where skin colour is different) is a suspected murderer. That's a Trump trope.

Four of my six children were born in the US, a country where mass shootings are through the roof. Does that mean if my children, who are British citizens, should choose to live in Britain, they'll be viewed as possible murderers? Probably not since they're white and no-one would know.

What we absolutely must avoid is creating a society in which we view those different from us with constant suspicion.

A person could step off a boat immediately and be a citizen - by that I mean they embrace our culture. They respect our laws, they are treated the same way as others, they don't come with anger.  We have 20th generation white people I don't consider citizens - scum who don't contribute, just take and add to an increasingly lawless feral society. 

we need to get real - we have a big enough problem dealing with indigenous crime let alone trying to understand the intentions of behaviours of the many unvetted people entering the country in huge numbers.  

The reality is that the people who run our country are weak - one rule for one different rules for others. BLM protests in lockdown - statues torn down, 100s of people arrested, lockdown breached.  Did we have pm going on tv condemning the protests and bringing in new laws despite the protests likely spreading covid also? No - starmer took a knee. 

You are chatting some unbelievable shite if you don't think how and where someone's parents were brought up doesn't matter.  I'll give you an example right now - our country. Take a couple of uneducated, unemployable, disrespectful,  rough arse 18 year old kids and you tell me how you think their children are gonna be?

I worked with a fella who was born and raised in South Africa - he left South Africa cos of the violence.  Let's say one thing quite clearly - he was not to be messed with, he would have absolutely no problem getting a gun and using it. Not talking about him playing the hard man - to him it would be normal, dog eat dog. Didn't need to be like that now cos he was in the UK.... 

yeah let's not view other people with constant suspicion Steve - well done. Virtue signaller of the day right there.  Let me know if you ain't gonna view a white teenage kid with his face covered with a north face snood any more or less than you would if you seen a person of ethnicity staring you down. 

you see Steve - I'm about society in general, I'm not arsed about looking virtuous - to me scum is scum. Comes in many shapes, colours and nationalities. I'm just not stupid enough to believe that there aren't risk factors involved in accepting unvetted people from countries where their people have a genuine hatred for western society. Maybe you just don't watch the news enough or give a shit unless it involves fkn Cornwall. 
 

I mean... let's be honest - the way it's going many of us will be looking at places like Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, the mad thing is - we couldn't get in there. 

[patto]

16 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

The events on Monday made me for the first time in my life seriously consider the prospect of emigration, I've never felt so disconnected from the country in which I live and as a father feel an overwhelming amount of responsibility to give my children the best life possible - I don't see the UK improving anytime soon and despite being somewhat pleased the Tories finally left, Labour (from what I've seen) have been despicable.

The UK is absolutely fucked, and is heading towards Civil War on the streets.

My first choice would be Poland although the EU is trying to force them to take immigrants but I don’t see it happening. 
just find a country that doesn’t pay Benefits instantly. 
I think any country by Poland….Lithuania Latvia…..I believe Georgia is quite good. But it is a big decision to leave home either way. 
if I was younger I would be gone. 

[patto]

4 hours ago, Hafnia said:

A person could step off a boat immediately and be a citizen - by that I mean they embrace our culture. They respect our laws, they are treated the same way as others, they don't come with anger.  We have 20th generation white people I don't consider citizens - scum who don't contribute, just take and add to an increasingly lawless feral society. 

we need to get real - we have a big enough problem dealing with indigenous crime let alone trying to understand the intentions of behaviours of the many unvetted people entering the country in huge numbers.  

The reality is that the people who run our country are weak - one rule for one different rules for others. BLM protests in lockdown - statues torn down, 100s of people arrested, lockdown breached.  Did we have pm going on tv condemning the protests and bringing in new laws despite the protests likely spreading covid also? No - starmer took a knee. 

You are chatting some unbelievable shite if you don't think how and where someone's parents were brought up doesn't matter.  I'll give you an example right now - our country. Take a couple of uneducated, unemployable, disrespectful,  rough arse 18 year old kids and you tell me how you think their children are gonna be?

I worked with a fella who was born and raised in South Africa - he left South Africa cos of the violence.  Let's say one thing quite clearly - he was not to be messed with, he would have absolutely no problem getting a gun and using it. Not talking about him playing the hard man - to him it would be normal, dog eat dog. Didn't need to be like that now cos he was in the UK.... 

yeah let's not view other people with constant suspicion Steve - well done. Virtue signaller of the day right there.  Let me know if you ain't gonna view a white teenage kid with his face covered with a north face snood any more or less than you would if you seen a person of ethnicity staring you down. 

you see Steve - I'm about society in general, I'm not arsed about looking virtuous - to me scum is scum. Comes in many shapes, colours and nationalities. I'm just not stupid enough to believe that there aren't risk factors involved in accepting unvetted people from countries where their people have a genuine hatred for western society. Maybe you just don't watch the news enough or give a shit unless it involves fkn Cornwall. 
 

I mean... let's be honest - the way it's going many of us will be looking at places like Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, the mad thing is - we couldn't get in there. 

People that can afford to leave will leave just a matter of time if you have a home to sell you are on a winner especially if you are a tradesman.