General Election/UK Politics

[Matt]

 

 

[Cornish Steve]

I'm delighted that Cornwall switched from having 100 percent Conservative MPs to 0 percent Conservative MPs. What bothers me, though, is the high percentage of votes in Cornwall won by Reform UK. I'm guessing all those English second home owners, who choose to vote in Cornwall instead of where they live, wanted an alternative to the Conservatives but couldn't bring themselves to vote for Labour or Liberal Democrats. In the next election (if we don't change the law about second home voting), I would expect them to return to the Conservative fold.

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

There is no money though so taxes are going up again. That's not a labour issue, any party would have to after half a trillion was spaffed up the wall. 

It's about time taxes did go up. Either we choose to be selfish and cut public services to the bone by cutting taxes, or we demonstrate humanity to the sick and needy by contributing to public services by raising taxes. A lot of nonsense is spouted about "waste"; in reality, most public services are run well. Personally, I hope Labour raise taxes significantly and do it quickly.

[Matt]

40 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's about time taxes did go up. Either we choose to be selfish and cut public services to the bone by cutting taxes, or we demonstrate humanity to the sick and needy by contributing to public services by raising taxes. A lot of nonsense is spouted about "waste"; in reality, most public services are run well. Personally, I hope Labour raise taxes significantly and do it quickly.

You've not lived here for a while have you

I'm all for raising taxes for those that can afford it. My worry is how they calculate that because I bet you it'll still be the middle class who carry the financial burden.

 

[Romey 1878]

Reform have 5 seats now.

[Gwlad]

The most ironic appointment is Rayner as Housing Secretary.

[Gwlad]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's about time taxes did go up. Either we choose to be selfish and cut public services to the bone by cutting taxes, or we demonstrate humanity to the sick and needy by contributing to public services by raising taxes. A lot of nonsense is spouted about "waste"; in reality, most public services are run well. Personally, I hope Labour raise taxes significantly and do it quickly.

I presume you vote in the US elections, not UK.

[StatesideToffee14]

Saw that Truss was first former UK PM to lose their seat in nearly 90 years. 

[Cornish Steve]

6 hours ago, Gwlad said:

I presume you vote in the US elections, not UK.

I'm not a US citizen, so I cannot vote in the US.

I learned just today that the British government has changed its rules. It seems, I am now eligible to vote in all British elections - whoohoo!! It used to be that, if you'd lived outside the country for 15 years, you were ineligible to vote - which was a very arbitrary rule. Now I can register to vote in future elections, and you can be sure I'll begin the process this evening. My wife and two oldest children are also eligible to vote in UK elections.

The irony was extreme when the former rule was in place since the prime minister need not be a British citizen. Andrew Bonar Law, for example, was a Canadian citizen when becoming British prime minister. In other words, a non-citizen from Canada, Belize, Guyana, Barbados, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cyprus, Brunei, Australia, New Zealand, Zambia, Ghana, Gabon, Nigeria, Tuvalu, Fiji, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea or a host of other countries could become prime minister but millions of British citizens like me who live overseas were blocked from voting.

[Romey 1878]

I'm not sure why someone that doesn't live here and won't be here to feel the consequences of their vote should get a vote to be honest, but hey ho.

[Matt]

27 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I'm not sure why someone that doesn't live here and won't be here to feel the consequences of their vote should get a vote to be honest, but hey ho.

That was my mindset whilst I was abroad. But then the fuckwits in charge refused to let me defend my EU citizenship along with millions of others so now my mentality is if you've got a passport you get a vote. 

[Romey 1878]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

That was my mindset whilst I was abroad. But then the fuckwits in charge refused to let me defend my EU citizenship along with millions of others so now my mentality is if you've got a passport you get a vote. 

Fair enough, I still don't agree but I do understand.

Edit - I do think people living abroad should have had a say in the referendum because that would have impacted them and is slightly different to having a vote in a GE.

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Fair enough, I still don't agree but I do understand.

Edit - I do think people living abroad should have had a say in the referendum because that would have impacted them and is slightly different to having a vote in a GE.

Oh if we'd been allowed to defend the citizenship that was allowing us to live our lives how we wanted, I would never have wanted a GE vote since I wasn't living here. The country wouldn't be in quite as much of a shitshow either ironically. But people believed lies over and over and those most affected were blocked from having a say. Can you tell I'm still a bit bitter?

But yeah, GE should be about the people paying tax in the country. The referendum should never have happened in a parliamentary democracy but at the very least the 3m+ expats should've been allowed to have their say.

[Romey 1878]

37 minutes ago, Matt said:

Oh if we'd been allowed to defend the citizenship that was allowing us to live our lives how we wanted, I would never have wanted a GE vote since I wasn't living here. The country wouldn't be in quite as much of a shitshow either ironically. But people believed lies over and over and those most affected were blocked from having a say. Can you tell I'm still a bit bitter?

But yeah, GE should be about the people paying tax in the country. The referendum should never have happened in a parliamentary democracy but at the very least the 3m+ expats should've been allowed to have their say.

Mate, I hold grudges so I can fully appreciate your bitterness .

[Cornish Steve]

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I'm not sure why someone that doesn't live here and won't be here to feel the consequences of their vote should get a vote to be honest, but hey ho.

There are many reasons, not least of which are the fact that (i) citizens of other countries can vote in their country of citizenship, and (ii) for years I've been eligible to vote nowhere.

1) Britain's foreign policy affects me greatly. The Brexit vote was mentioned, but there are many other matters. As someone who's traveled to over 80 different countries on business, I needed a visa in comparatively few of them. Leaving the EU changed that to some extent. Other policies could mean I have to pay a hefty visa fee when traveling.

2) I've traveled to both Russia and Ukraine many times. Clearly, Britain's policy in this area affects me quite a bit.

3) Some British policies can make life difficult or even dangerous for me when traveling to some countries. Those of us living outside the country have a unique perspective on this.

4) Britain has reciprocal agreements with other countries when it comes to retirement. Contributions made when working years ago in Britain can be accessed from other countries, and vice versa. Any change in such policies could affect me substantially.

5) I have savings and investments in Britain. Monetary policies affect me, and so do tax and reciprocal tax policies.

6) The EU funded initiatives designed to protect and strengthen Cornish culture, such as language initiatives and bilingual signs. The Tory government cut such funding. Clearly, I support parties that recognize regional cultures - not just my own but Welsh, Scottish, Manx, etc.

7) British policy in Ireland affects me to some extent, both when I travel on business (and I visit company offices there) and for other reasons.

8 ) What if I'm detained overseas when traveling on business? I once had a colleague to whom this happened, and he immediately called the foreign office of his native country. They arranged his release and flew him out safely. As a British citizen, I want to be sure we have a government that stands up for its people overseas.

9) All six of my children are British citizens (some of them dual citizens). At least two of them have expressed an interest in living in Britain, so I have a clear interest in British domestic policies in the event they choose to do so.

10) Who is eligible to be a British citizen? My two children born there are British citizens. My other four children are citizens because I was born there. Britain defines different categories of citizenship, and the meaning can have big implications to those of us living overseas. (BTW, some countries, like Britain, define citizenship based on the father's nationality while others define citizenship based on the mother's nationality. This is why, in some rare cases, people born in international waters can claim no citizenship and struggle all their lives to settle anywhere. It's an outlier case, I know, but British policies can sometimes have a dramatic affect on the lives of those not living in the country.)

11) Britain has always been a nation of travelers. For centuries, we've traveled to other countries to establish business, which ultimately benefits Britain. It also brings a more international perspective than seen with other countries. As long as we're British citizens, we retain ties to our country and should have a say in its government.

12) The final example I'd give is how all of us as British citizens help to define British culture. Do we have a heart to help the needy? What about legal immigrants? Migrants? Defence? Standing up to aggression? If ever Britain faces a situation similar to the 1930s, I want to make clear that, as a Briton, I support freedom and will reject appeasement. Such decisions affect all of us, not just those living at "home".

There are other reasons, but twelve are enough for now. You wrote that "someone that doesn't live here won't be here to feel the consequences of their vote." I may not feel the same consequences that you do, but you won't feel many of the consequences I face - just as the needs of inner London are quite different from the needs of the Scottish highlands. We're all British citizens, though, and all our respective needs should be noted, respected, and addressed.

I can understand to some extent that those with dual nationality might have conflicting interests, although the US allows dual citizens to vote, for example. In my case, I'm a British citizen only. A debate on that topic would be interesting, but it's irrelevant to both of us for now.

It's also a bit awkward trying to determine in which constituency I "live". I'm facing that already as I apply for voting rights. How can I "prove" where I last lived? What is the definition of "live"? Does owning property in a location mean I "live" there? This matter can be resolved, though, just as it can be for the homeless, for travelers, and for those who live in multiple locations within Britain.

The better long-term solution, however, is to allow citizens living overseas to vote for their own MPs. Why not have a block of new MPs, for example, who represent Britons living in different regions of the world? That makes the most sense since they can represent our interests just as much as today's MPs look after the interests of their local constituents. An MP representing the North Cornwall constituency, for example, has little understanding of my needs as a Brit living overseas and maybe little interest. Like every other citizen, my MP should represent my unique interests.

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9dn8erg3zo

Wonder if we can sue the cunts for the near half billion they've wasted on this ridiculous idea. 

 

[MikeO]

 

[MikeO]

 

[Romey 1878]

There are people saying that many of the Reform candidates didn't even exist.

What the actual fuck?!

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

There are people saying that many of the Reform candidates didn't even exist.

What the actual fuck?!

If that were true then I would have expected the Tories would be calling for a revote, when you consider reform took thousands of Tory votes in hundreds of constituencies. 

[Matt]

 

 

[Romey 1878]

Meanwhile, they voted to keep the two child benefit cap despite it being something that Kid Starver previously said he'd scrap.

[Matt]

37 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Meanwhile, they voted to keep the two child benefit cap despite it being something that Kid Starver previously said he'd scrap.

Well yeah, Tory lite.

[Romey 1878]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well yeah, Tory lite.

Not even lite, just Tory.

The whole thing looks even worse after the party punished the Labour MP's that voted to scrap it.

Imagine punishing MP's for voting on behalf of their constituents, like they're supposed to. Imagine punishing MP's for voting to help take families out of poverty.

It's fucking abhorrent and I feel even better about not giving my vote to the party.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Not even lite, just Tory.

The whole thing looks even worse after the party punished the Labour MP's that voted to scrap it.

Imagine punishing MP's for voting on behalf of their constituents, like they're supposed to. Imagine punishing MP's for voting to help take families out of poverty.

It's fucking abhorrent and I feel even better about not giving my vote to the party.

True. Tory lite Vs 10 years ago, but the Conservatives went so far right that yeah, Labour is now the right wing party.

For me, they're still a step in the right direction and that's all I can keep telling myself. They got my vote because I cannot trust the electorate after Brexit. But they don't get it next time unless they actually improve things and by that I mean basically stabilise the country. 

 

[patto]

The thing is how many children do you Pay for and is there any evidence it will filter through to the children.

[Matt]

 Tory light is forced into being full on Tory but this time actually because of the government and not a global crash. 

[Romey 1878]

 

[Matt]

Because they've found a £22b hole in the budget so all their promises and policies arent worth shit. However that's no different to if that wasn't the case since policies are more about winning power than anything else.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Because they've found a £22b hole in the budget so all their promises and policies arent worth shit. However that's no different to if that wasn't the case since policies are more about winning power than anything else.

You've completely missed the point. Going after the vulnerable when there are other ways to go is wrong.

What a party.

I don't believe they didn't know about the hole in the budget when they made their promises either because there were people saying that would be the case during the election.