EFC-Paul Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I'd be happy if he was purely a back up to Kenny being given a chance, with the extra load of games we could do worse for a squad filler Romey 1878 and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Yeah, it's tough to say if Kenny is ready or not, but I think I'd prefer to give him a chance over Cuco. ...or if they split time then that would be okay too. I just don't want to stop the development of our young players (and for him to get pushed even further down the pecking order once Coleman is back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 this one makes sense if the Pickford deal includes a Kenny loan to sunderland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 this one makes sense if the Pickford deal includes a Kenny loan to sunderland. It does but I'd like us to do better than this lad as a starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 I'm okay with this as experienced back-up to Kenny rather than Holgate playing out of position at right-back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Holgate is struggling at U-21 level. Back up to Kenny, not in the way of, i'm OK with it. Although Cuco is shite (for a prem footballer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 I'd rather go to Soton for Cedric, the player that kept him out the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 smart move, he's on a free, no risk at all, if he does OK it will have been worth it while seamus is out. holgate isn't a RB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Holgate is struggling at U-21 level. Back up to Kenny, not in the way of, i'm OK with it. Although Cuco is shite (for a prem footballer). I thought he played really well at the U21 championships, he was at fault for 2 of the goals but they were fantastic headers and he should have had help. He is more of a CB so he needs game time there. I think he will be a quality player for us if he gets the game time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Decent option on a free as long as he's cover with the extra games and hopefully a push on a few fronts this time around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 I thought he played really well at the U21 championships, he was at fault for 2 of the goals but they were fantastic headers and he should have had help. He is more of a CB so he needs game time there. I think he will be a quality player for us if he gets the game time. Yeah thought he looks alright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 I'd rather go to Soton for Cedric, the player that kept him out the team. Anyone in their right mind would but he'd cost £20m plus when we've got one of the best right backs in the country in Coleman already, who'll be back in the new year and a player who has earned a shot at a first team spot after a great season in the u23s and his World Cup performances in Kenny... Martina would be very much a squad player. Soares would be a key 1st team signing in a position which we're quite well stocked in. nyblue23, markjazzbassist and nutmegwolf203 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Deffo agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 No no no. Don't buy back ups, don't buy squad players. If they aren't good enough to start week in week out then they shouldn't be brought in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 No no no. Don't buy back ups, don't buy squad players. If they aren't good enough to start week in week out then they shouldn't be brought in. Ok so we'll have either 11 players, then, or a bunch of players who aren't happy here because they know they should be starting somewhere else. That's not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 No no no. Don't buy back ups, don't buy squad players. If they aren't good enough to start week in week out then they shouldn't be brought in. Illogical mate, we aren't Barcelona who can have decent talent sat on their arse and keep them happy We need subs/squad players and it's in an area we will hopefully be fine in soon enough once Coleman comes back and Kenny is up to speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Ok so we'll have either 11 players, then, or a bunch of players who aren't happy here because they know they should be starting somewhere else. That's not how it works. Yeh that's exactly how it works. Look at Mirallas or McCarthy. We're brought into the first team, now they may or may not be surplus and may want to leave if they aren't playing because someone else has come in ahead of them. Martinez taught us to not buy back ups. It doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Illogical mate, we aren't Barcelona who can have decent talent sat on their arse and keep them happy We need subs/squad players and it's in an area we will hopefully be fine in soon enough once Coleman comes back and Kenny is up to speed You are being illogical. Why buy players who aren't deemed good enough to play week in week out in the number 1 spot? How does that push the current number 1? Why would you want players who have the mentality that they are happy to be on the bench? Always buy either players to replace the first teamers or youngsters who can make the grade with time. Otherwise you are reducing the quality of the pool of players and the mentality of the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 I agree with Bailey. We're looking at the next step. And the next step is to have players compete in every position. I'm sick of us having players that don't need to perform. Let them earn their place. Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Yep. I'm down with Bailey on this one. We don't need to buy squad fillers anymore...we have a capable U23 set up that can step in when needed. Buy as much quality as we can...keep it as competitive as possible. Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) I agree with Bailey. We're looking at the next step. And the next step is to have players compete in every position. I'm sick of us having players that don't need to perform. Let them earn their place. Yep. I'm down with Bailey on this one. We don't need to buy squad fillers anymore...we have a capable U23 set up that can step in when needed. Buy as much quality as we can...keep it as competitive as possible. Edited June 29, 2017 by Lowensda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 I agree with Baileys logic. In actuality it's hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) we don't have the finance and turnover to keep top players on the bench. Edited June 29, 2017 by markjazzbassist nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) You are being illogical. Why buy players who aren't deemed good enough to play week in week out in the number 1 spot? How does that push the current number 1? Why would you want players who have the mentality that they are happy to be on the bench? Always buy either players to replace the first teamers or youngsters who can make the grade with time. Otherwise you are reducing the quality of the pool of players and the mentality of the group. No I'm not and as said we are not Barcalona or a team that can buy those kinds of players and them be happy to play second fiddle Do you think we are a side that can buy a player equal or better than say Baines then him or them be happy to fight it out each week whilst paying big wages? I'd love to be able to do it Bailey as we all would but as Steve and Mark say it's a damn sight easier said than done and we don't have the financial clout and draw... It's being realistic Edited June 29, 2017 by EFC-Paul markjazzbassist and nyblue23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 No I'm not and as said we are not Barcalona or a team that can buy those kinds of players and them be happy to play second fiddle Do you think we are a side that can buy a player equal or better than say Baines then him or them be happy to fight it out each week whilst paying big wages? I'd love to be able to do it Bailey as we all would but as Steve and Mark say it's a damn sight easier said than done and we don't have the financial clout and draw... It's being realistic I didn't say it was easy to do but it should always be the aim. In reality the Baines situation is an easy one as we DO need a top class replacement for Baines. We maybe have a year left to bed someone in. Either a young lad comes in with the aim that he is ready this time next year, or you buy someone to relegate Baines to the bench and Baines becomes the understudy. Why would you buy or pay wages to someone not as good as Baines, who will never be better than the current Baines when you want to win as many games of football as you can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 we don't have the finance and turnover to keep top players on the bench. I think we will have both this year. Lots of games (hopefully) and lots of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 I didn't say it was easy to do but it should always be the aim. In reality the Baines situation is an easy one as we DO need a top class replacement for Baines. We maybe have a year left to bed someone in. Either a young lad comes in with the aim that he is ready this time next year, or you buy someone to relegate Baines to the bench and Baines becomes the understudy. Why would you buy or pay wages to someone not as good as Baines, who will never be better than the current Baines when you want to win as many games of football as you can? He was just an example, I wouldn't want to but it's a likely reality Our RB situation is an different case as we have Kenny coming through and Coleman being injured so we can't rely on Kenny to play so many games off the bat it would be daft to slash a large sum on a RB to have potentially three vying for one spot Realistically it won't happen hence to first response and I'll bet you a large wedge it won't anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 I'm all for buying 1st teamers in priority positions when needed but this is different - Martina will be no more than a stop gap. His signing is likely to give Kenny more opportunities and not cause a needless situation when Coleman returns from injury. Why spend silly sums of money on a player who in reality will only have a limited career here? I'd personally rather use the £20m+ it would cost for a right back of Coleman's quality to spend on another goal scorer or centre back - positions we are lacking. nyblue23 and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Yeh that's exactly how it works. Look at Mirallas or McCarthy. We're brought into the first team, now they may or may not be surplus and may want to leave if they aren't playing because someone else has come in ahead of them. Martinez taught us to not buy back ups. It doesn't work. No team in the Prem is stocked with starters on their bench. Even Barcelona, Bayern, Real Madrid and Napoli have guys who fill roles. We're talking about professional footballer egos here. And the two guys you mention concede my point. They're not happy to sit on the bench, therefore don't play well and don't fulfill their roles when they come on as subs. Team chemistry matters. People fulfill the roles that they've been assigned. You can't buy a bunch of top players, tell them they're all going to start, sit half of them and still win games. That is decisively not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 I might be wrong but I think the point is that you don't 'aim' to buy a squad filler as such, you 'aim' for the highest quality possible. You don't need 22 of the highest quality, but get maybe 15 or 16. This is quite a big failure in the Premiership for me. Teams buy in a few of 'squad fillers' then don't give any younger lads a chance. Clubs have already spent a fortune nurturing the young lads, why then fill their squad place with a relatively cheap import who can't do any better of a job than the young lad? That's my angle anyway. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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