nyblue23 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 You don't really rate the standard of the Spanish and German league above the premier do you? Â Not just biased here either but haven't numerous experts broke it down and put the mid table standard far above those leagues. Meaning that the top teams face a higher standard week in week out, in the premier league? Or maybe I'm wrong. Beat me to it as I only have one hand to type. Goddamn stitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Beat me to it as I only have one hand to type. Goddamn stitches. Have you punched the wall due to no streams of the match too haha. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Demonstrating a misunderstanding of these coefficients. The best 6 or so teams in Spain and Germany have performed better in European competition over the last several years than the best 6 or so teams in England. That does not mean that the leagues as a whole are better or that the competition that Hart faces against 19 other premier league teams is inferior to the competition Bravo or Neuer face day in/day out in their respective leagues. There are only so many Dortmunds, Wolfsburgs, and teams from Madrid. Basically the above Mark  The premier league is the most competitive how you can say its third rate is bewildering tbh mate, I get you don't rate him highly but all the above doesn't back up your opinion imo I don't think he's a world beater myself but he's better than what we've had for some time in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Have you punched the wall due to no streams of the match too haha. The other hand will be stitched up soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 of course i believe those leagues are better, i'm not english! just like with hart, it's a bunch of homers who can't be objective. Â middle and bottom table i don't see much difference. top table i see a lot of difference with the german and spanish teams better than the premier league teams. just cause the league has the best marketing and most money doesn't mean its the best product. Â then there's european performances, again the win goes to german and spanish sides. look at both CL and Europa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 I think that's argument over to be honest. Â Ok back to Hart, he's an Improvement and that should be our goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Anyone recall Hart having a worldie other than one against Barca? Â De Gea pulls out the stops at an almost unbelievable rate, most Prem keepers will pull out a few games and win you points. When I've watched Hart he probs has a deficit when it come to gaining /losing goals. Stek has already helped us get 3 points with his saves, with stops I doubt Hart would have made. Â Bar one of those stops I would have expected any half decent keeper to have made them. Â Hart kept City in the game against Bayern either last season or the season before and I have seen him pull off plenty of outstanding stops. Personally I don't think there is a whole lot of difference in the top keepers with shot stopping, its everything else where they differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 De Gea was dire in 2014 and has had plenty of howlers e.g. PSG when nearly every United fan wanted his head in a plate  All players have stinkers every so often some are highlighted more than others, his most highlighted poor stint was the Euro's were he was pretty piss poor but he certainly wasn't the only high profile player to do that I argued he should've been keeper of the season in his first year. Not as many mistakes as you'd think, just everyone got in the newspapers and replayed on sky. He made more saves that you think he shouldn't have got to than anyone else. His class shines through. Hart doesn't come close to being a top keeper. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 De Gea makes as many mistakes with his decision making as Hart does with his shot stopping. EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 I argued he should've been keeper of the season in his first year. Not as many mistakes as you'd think, just everyone got in the newspapers and replayed on sky. He made more saves that you think he shouldn't have got to than anyone else. His class shines through. Hart doesn't come close to being a top keeper. He was dire in his first season its not only well remembered and documented by many the man himself admits to his rough and poor first season there plus the same logic applies or could be applied to Hart, I'm not his biggest fan but people need to take the blinkers off when saying he's poor shit crap etc and applying the above logic to one keeper when it clearly applies to the other also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 of course i believe those leagues are better, i'm not english! just like with hart, it's a bunch of homers who can't be objective. Â middle and bottom table i don't see much difference. top table i see a lot of difference with the german and spanish teams better than the premier league teams. just cause the league has the best marketing and most money doesn't mean its the best product. Â then there's european performances, again the win goes to german and spanish sides. look at both CL and Europa. Its not a biased opinion because I'm English so drop that one Mark its the most competitive and entertaining league in my eyes purely because it is imo even more so in recent years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Its not a biased opinion because I'm English so drop that one Mark its the most competitive and entertaining league in my eyes purely because it is imo even more so in recent years  do you watch la liga and bundesliga regularly? didn't think so Edited August 23, 2016 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 He was dire in his first season its not only well remembered and documented by many the man himself admits to his rough and poor first season there plus the same logic applies or could be applied to Hart, I'm not his biggest fan but people need to take the blinkers off when saying he's poor shit crap etc and applying the above logic to one keeper when it clearly applies to the other alsoHis errors were well documented. I got laughed at for saying he'll be the best keeper and should have been in the team of the year. You can't argue with the first one, and I'll trust myself over the rats in the media. Guess the same applies to Hart. Why have 3 managers in a row wanted rid? markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 The top 3 in Spain are streets clear, but only Bayern are ahead of the others in Germany, maybe with Dortmund if they spring back to life this season. Â I would say our results in Europe last season would back that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 His errors were well documented. I got laughed at for saying he'll be the best keeper and should have been in the team of the year. You can't argue with the first one, and I'll trust myself over the rats in the media. Guess the same applies to Hart. Why have 3 managers in a row wanted rid? Â Then why haven't 3 managers in a row got rid and still played him week in week out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Â Then why haven't 3 managers in a row got rid and still played him week in week out? or spent stupid money to replace him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Hart would be an upgrade but it's not worth it for his price -- especially if it's just a loan. He's better than average, but his wages/price tag are greatly inflated. Â As far as which leagues are better... Spain and Germany have some better teams (Barca, both Madrids; Bayern, BVB), but England has the most parity by far. Teams in other leagues can afford to rotate their squads regularly and put more focus on European competition. Â I'd be curious to see how injuries come into play since the English League is far more physical. Edited August 23, 2016 by TonkaRoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Â Then why haven't 3 managers in a row got rid and still played him week in week out? The last two both dropped him, and their latest has given him the Niasse treatment. See a link I put in here already confirming they wanted rid. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just watched Youtube video of him and I didnt realise how good he was at coming off his line and with his positioning. The amount of great saves he has made by closing the angle and spreading himself was impressive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 His save percentage is average at best, and three managers in a row don't rate him. I find it difficult to see how anyone can argue he's worth pursuing. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 The last two both dropped him, and their latest has given him the Niasse treatment. See a link I put in here already confirming they wanted rid. De Gea was also dropped.. Cech was dropped... Courtois was dropped... Â So after 6 transfer windows why wasnt a new keeper bought? Â Pep also said that the door wasnt closed for him. They have likely bought a new keeper as Hart expressed a desire to leave if he wasnt first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) De Gea was also dropped.. Cech was dropped... Courtois was dropped...  So after 6 transfer windows why wasnt a new keeper bought?  Pep also said that the door wasnt closed for him. They have likely bought a new keeper as Hart expressed a desire to leave if he wasnt first choice. Different circumstances, De Gea was looking for a move, not performance related like Hart. Not moved most likely because he's English. Edited August 23, 2016 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) De Gea was also dropped.. Cech was dropped... Courtois was dropped... Â So after 6 transfer windows why wasnt a new keeper bought? Â Pep also said that the door wasnt closed for him. They have likely bought a new keeper as Hart expressed a desire to leave if he wasnt first choice. Â they have been bought. caballero and pantillimon and now bravo. pantillimon isn't great, neither is caballero, hence he still has a job. bravo is good, he's gone. Edited August 23, 2016 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Â they have been bought. caballero and pantillimon and now bravo. pantillimon isn't great, neither is caballero, hence he still has a job. bravo is good, he's gone. They were never expected to be number 1 keepers and never were. Â If he was bad as you and Pete make out he would have been shipped on years ago, especially given the money they have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 And it's not only the transfer fee that's an issue: If we start paying stupid wages, we'll set a precedent we'll soon regret. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 They were never expected to be number 1 keepers and never were. Â If he was bad as you and Pete make out he would have been shipped on years ago, especially given the money they have! Their defense has carried him. His save percentage says it all. Â I used to drink in Salford with a few City Fans and Hart was their biggest moan. Always gets beat by low shots to his left apparently, doesn't position himself well enough and isn't quick enough to get down to make the save. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Please tell me you didn't work out what names would be needed to get to £30m? No. Genuinely, that is his real name.  I was shocked too. Check his Wiki page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Hi shots. Low shots. One on ones. Cross claims. Check how he positions himself and spreads himself. Willing to take the ball on any body part Inc face. He's not as bad as people think...how many can remember these saves? Â https://youtu.be/-z_nOWpgaG4 Â https://youtu.be/AOqGsSmflz0 Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016  do you watch la liga and bundesliga regularly? didn't think so How would you know? Did I reply? There's no need to be an presumptuous tit Mark as you were with your prior post  I try and watch as much footie as I can but kids working permanent nights etc hampers it but I know and see enough to form my opinion  Fact of the matter is comparing players from other leagues is at the best of times very sketchy and I'm not a big believer in stats painting a true picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 How would you know? Did I reply? There's no need to be an presumptuous tit Mark as you were with your prior post  I try and watch as much footie as I can but kids working permanent nights etc hampers it but I know and see enough to form my opinion  Fact of the matter is comparing players from other leagues is at the best of times very sketchy and I'm not a big believer in stats painting a true picture  don't believe in stats and don't watch the other leagues but you are sure they aren't better. convincing argument paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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