Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I don't think anyone has accused anyone here of racism etc. The point is that only far right parties are celebrating it. At least, that's how I've read it. Brave is a bit strong, Romey. I'm glad the people voted and a change is coming, I'm just angry at / scared by the result. But, I agree with you that politics brought it upon itself and now there will be massive repercussions. There is a collective fear from a lot of people of what's to come. I apologise for getting so emotional about it, and like I've said elsewhere I respect the opinions of those who stuck to their guns and voted the way they felt fit, even if I strongly (perhaps too much) disagree. I just don't think either side made this decision based on any concrete evidence, pretty sure that's my biggest gripe. Johnsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The slogan on the bus was very misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The slogan on the bus was very misleading.it was, and it doesn't help that UKIP promised £3b more into the NHS, yet before the ballot boxes are packed up Farage is back peddling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Can I just be clear that my lengthy post about racism, bigotry, xenophobia dtc wasn't aimed at this forum. Hence, I didn't quote anyone! It was a general statement based on what I have been reading and seeing all day. I've been off work today so have spent far too much time reading news, social media, watching news, debating etc. In between doing my house chores before my Scottish wife got home...or she would beat me up. Also, I did my research! I always do. I spent hours upon hours reading about the history of the EU, the origins, the treaties, unemployment rates, GDP'S, imports/exports, payments, populations...all sorts of shit. And all from sources not associated with in or out. Here's to the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 it was, and it doesn't help that UKIP promised £3b more into the NHS, yet before the ballot boxes are packed up Farage is back peddling. Plus the fact that UKIP have zero say when it comes to NHS funding. I just hope that someone in a position of power (Gove, Duncan-Smith, Johnson) actually comes out and says something to discredit Farage, but it's not happened yet and I don't think it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Lukakus fault.... ....runs. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Can I just be clear that my lengthy post about racism, bigotry, xenophobia dtc wasn't aimed at this forum. Hence, I didn't quote anyone! It was a general statement based on what I have been reading and seeing all day. I've been off work today so have spent far too much time reading news, social media, watching news, debating etc. In between doing my house chores before my Scottish wife got home...or she would beat me up. Also, I did my research! I always do. I spent hours upon hours reading about the history of the EU, the origins, the treaties, unemployment rates, GDP'S, imports/exports, payments, populations...all sorts of shit. And all from sources not associated with in or out. Here's to the future! Good post Newty. About the Future: *the following is purely speculation and personal opinion* I think Matt called it earlier in this thread. There are a million things that need to be (re-)negotiated, and that can't happen within the timespan of two years. Switzerland and the EU barely managed in 20 years of time. The EU will give the UK the Norway-deal : access to the single market, in exchange for a fee, and without a seat at the table. During the following years after that, probably some stuff can be re-negotiated without the two years time limit. Unless the Brexit sets into effect the exit of other member states, and the whole thing falls apart. But as the exit scenario doesn't seem to get a lot of traction, apart from extremist parties, on the continent I think that the much less likely option. Longer term future: personal hope: the EU asserts itself more and proves how and why it is still the greatest political project ever undertaken and a definite positive in todays world, the UK will want to join again at some point. Given the massive number of young people that wanted to remain, the future generations of UK citizens might be open to it. Edited June 24, 2016 by holystove MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 it was, and it doesn't help that UKIP promised £3b more into the NHS, yet before the ballot boxes are packed up Farage is back peddling. Like MikeO says, UKIP can't promise anything, they are not in government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Lukakus fault.... ....runs. Be fair, he's only 23. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Like MikeO says, UKIP can't promise anything, they are not in government. true, and we know that, but I imagine lots of voters won't. Reading lots about people who voted out but never expected the vote to count for shit and are already regretting it. Done now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I'm getting really ticked off by the US media, which are labeling Leave voters as ignorant racist bigots. CNN is calling the vote xenophobic. The Washington Post and others claim that 10% or less of the electorate knew what they were voting for. There have been articles flying around everywhere about Britons today searching on Google for "what is the EU", etc. I thought it was just the elite in Britain that was upset, but it seems it's the elite in Britain, in Europe, and in the US that are now launching a smear campaign. So be it. They scream for democracy and worship democracy - until we vote for what they don't want. Then we're all ignorant bigots. Note too how the BBC has a map at its website showing how voters with no degree voted. Funny that they don't reveal how voters with a degree voted, and I'm guessing they voted the very same way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Imagine what'll be like when Trump gets in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Imagine what'll be like when Trump gets in! Supreme Leader Trump will control the media and jail anyone who says anything bad about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Supreme Leader Trump will control the media and jail anyone who says anything bad about him. thats a full time job in itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I'm getting really ticked off by the US media, which are labeling Leave voters as ignorant racist bigots. CNN is calling the vote xenophobic. The Washington Post and others claim that 10% or less of the electorate knew what they were voting for. There have been articles flying around everywhere about Britons today searching on Google for "what is the EU", etc. I thought it was just the elite in Britain that was upset, but it seems it's the elite in Britain, in Europe, and in the US that are now launching a smear campaign. So be it. They scream for democracy and worship democracy - until we vote for what they don't want. Then we're all ignorant bigots. Note too how the BBC has a map at its website showing how voters with no degree voted. Funny that they don't reveal how voters with a degree voted, and I'm guessing they voted the very same way! Disagree; firstly a decent proportion of leave voters were/are xenophobic/racist/bigots. If they'd have all stayed at home the vote would have been remain. No question. Not suggesting that all out voters are of that opinion but it's an undeniable fact imo; out won because of them, not because of people like John (though I still blame him :shaking fist:). Disagree with your last para also; London, where a large proportion of people with degree level education work, voted in big time. Johnsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Disagree with your last para also; London, where a large proportion of people with degree level education work, voted in big time. Then lets see some proper regression analysis. Leave: city versus rural. Leave: degree versus no degree. Leave: employer versus unemployed. Then we would know just how strong is each factor. There's only one reason the BBC shows a correlation between Leave and no degree, and we all know what that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Then lets see some proper regression analysis. Leave: city versus rural. Leave: degree versus no degree. Leave: employer versus unemployed. Then we would know just how strong is each factor. There's only one reason the BBC shows a correlation between Leave and no degree, and we all know what that is. No response to the rest of the post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I voted for leave. I admit it and I am not ashamed to admit it. I had me reasons and I am not a bigot, I am not a racist. I am lucky enough to have had a decent education (albeit as a mature student.) I do not vote Tory nor do I vote labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I voted for leave. I admit it and I am not ashamed to admit it. I had me reasons and I am not a bigot, I am not a racist. I am lucky enough to have had a decent education (albeit as a mature student.) I do not vote Tory nor do I vote labour. No issues with people like you Rubes, fair play, looked at the facts and made a decision and you won. (But now you have to live with the consequences and they'll be all your fault ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 No issues with people like you Rubes, fair play, looked at the facts and made a decision and you won. (But now you have to live with the consequences and they'll be all your fault ) Fist time ever I voted for a winning side to be honest mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Good post Newty. About the Future: *the following is purely speculation and personal opinion* I think Matt called it earlier in this thread. There are a million things that need to be (re-)negotiated, and that can't happen within the timespan of two years. Switzerland and the EU barely managed in 20 years of time. The EU will give the UK the Norway-deal : access to the single market, in exchange for a fee, and without a seat at the table. During the following years after that, probably some stuff can be re-negotiated without the two years time limit. Unless the Brexit sets into effect the exit of other member states, and the whole thing falls apart. But as the exit scenario doesn't seem to get a lot of traction, apart from extremist parties, on the continent I think that the much less likely option. Longer term future: personal hope: the EU asserts itself more and proves how and why it is still the greatest political project ever undertaken and a definite positive in todays world, the UK will want to join again at some point. Given the massive number of young people that wanted to remain, the future generations of UK citizens might be open to it. No doubt there is a lot to be done. The 2 year countdown doesn't begin until we 'hand in our notice' so to speak. We might not do that for a few years yet. It could take 10 years to actually leave. There should be no panic. Only calm, logical heads are needed right now. A good number of countries have already come out and said they do not want to lose their relationship with the UK. They do not want to lose any trade with the UK. At the end of the day, it's just business. And everyone wants a slice of the cake. The UK does not want to lose its relationship with Europe. There is no point in cutting off the nose to spite the face. I do feel that you may be underestimating the feelings of normal every day people in other European countries by seemingly constantly referring to extremist parties. There are several EU countries with pretty aweful unemployment rates etc full of people looking at this situation thinking 'why can't we....'. And they won't all be right wingers. As for the young people element. Again, more media spin. This is based on surveys of, say, upto 2000 people in the lead up to the vote and hold no real significance. Furthermore, I'm only 34. I have many working years left in me. I am also the future of this country. Why is so much emphasis put on such a small banded age group (I think its 18-24 year olds)?! Because a small survey made it convenient for the media to create another story. Pure headline grabbing again. I appreciate what the experts have to say. But that knowledge is based on learnings from what you know now. What happens in the future, rewrites the history that we learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 No response to the rest of the post? There are extremists of all kinds, and we can't blame them for an outcome. They're a fact of life. We must vote for what we believe in and not be worried about the spin put on votes by others. If you wish to assign blame, then what about the people who didn't bother to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Disagree; firstly a decent proportion of leave voters were/are xenophobic/racist/bigots. If they'd have all stayed at home the vote would have been remain. No question. Not suggesting that all out voters are of that opinion but it's an undeniable fact imo; out won because of them, not because of people like John (though I still blame him :shaking fist:). I agree. I think there was an element of racism/xenophobia/extreme right wing views with the OUT vote. But a small amount compared to the overall vote. Equally, within the IN vote there will I have been a lot of 'well, I don't know, so I'm staying in'. In my view, both votes are pretty useless. If both sets had stayed at home, the result would have been the same. The problem at the moment is that 17 million people are being labelled in the same category. And that's causing more ill feeling than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I am not an extremist either, but if you say so I will put a bomb in your tuna and cucumber butties box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The stay in vote has just gone upto 14?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The stay in vote has just gone upto 14?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 It's all Rubes' fault :shaking fist: rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 There are extremists of all kinds, and we can't blame them for an outcome. They're a fact of life. We must vote for what we believe in and not be worried about the spin put on votes by others. If you wish to assign blame, then what about the people who didn't bother to vote? I blame them also. Just had a deep discussion with Josh about it and he's far more angry than me. We all know people who never watch the news, never read a paper, who would have been completely oblivious to the fact that the referendum even took place. Never been one for compulsory voting but maybe it's something that needs looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The rebel vote. I hate how football clubs are all about TV money and entertainment than sport, run by the elite that we have no say in it. We could try and solve the issues, but fuck it let's just vote out of football all together (there's too many foreign players any way). Cheers lads, no footy for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I blame them also. Just had a deep discussion with Josh about it and he's far more angry than me. We all know people who never watch the news, never read a paper, who would have been completely oblivious to the fact that the referendum even took place. Never been one for compulsory voting but maybe it's something that needs looking at. think it's obligatory in Australia, good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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