pete0 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Interesting stat this, but Koeman after less than a season gets slated for having a losing mentality in big games. It runs MUCH deeper than that and again people are slaughtering him for not turning it round in his first season. Fucking ridiculous!! https://twitter.com/efc_statto/status/848283657420910594 Just shows we should have sacked Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Just shows we should have sacked Moyes. I can't believebpeople are accusing Koeman of this after less than a season yet have said absolutrly fuck all about it before he arrived. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Criticised him before Christmas as we looked very poor even after spending cash in the summer. We lost yesterday but have been on a great run. Chelsea also lost! Koeman will be judged on how he comes back from this result, not this solitary result. It hurts, but it's a blip in a very good run. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Martinez wins - First year - Chelsea home, United Home and Away, Arsenal Home. Second Year - United Home. Third year - Chelsea Home, Man City Home, Chelsea Home (included cups) Koeman - Arsenal Home, Man City Home, (still have 3 matches against bigs to play) Not sure where it's coming from either pad. He's on par with Martinez and inherited a worse squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I wasn't overly keen on Koeman but to slate his entire Everton managerial career on yesterday is ridiculous. We look 10x healthier under him, than the previous loon. I have issues with some of his management style but even I can't ignore the difference he has made. 1 result. With Morgs, Seamus and Mori out, I wasn't expecting much. Big game players also didn't help (Ross, Rom) and a team full of kids? A loss was kind of inevitable. The way which we lost, is unexcusable but other factors didn't help. Not strictly Koemans fault. One game. Sibdane, markjazzbassist and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Koeman targeted Europe this season. We're bang on target. Our defensive record has improved, our attacking record has improved, we have more points with 8 games remaining than we have amassed over each of the previous 2 seasons. We've sold some very poor/average players (more will follow in the summer). We've signed some players who have significantly improved our starting xi and signed/promoted some excellent prospects for the future who have been given opportunities in the first team. I think he's had a pretty decent first 9 months personally. Yeah. Absolutely. Of course he has his faults...hasn't every living human being?!...but overall, I don't think you could realistically ask for more from his first 9 months. And to me, it doesn't matter if you didn't want him, didn't rate him, don't like him etc. Sometimes you have to just swallow your pride, put your hands up and admit he's doing a good job as it stands. It's not perfect but it's a shit load better than it was. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Played the kids? That's all we have! Walsh has stocked him with 19 year old hopefuls. We need a fucking bench and have needed it since moyes days. We have 11 solid but bad that its cast offs and young ins. Walsh needs to give him the players to implement his plans. Lookman Lewin Davies Pennington holgate all good and fun but we need players that can step in and not shit themselves (holgate only one that's proved he can). It wasn't a criticism, Mark. I think he played the wrong kids and system, but he was willing to see if local lads would provided the needed impetus vs the seniors. If anything he deserves credit for that. What he deserves slating for is his slow response to obvious problems on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 It wasn't a criticism, Mark. I think he played the wrong kids and system, but he was willing to see if local lads would provided the needed impetus vs the seniors. If anything he deserves credit for that. What he deserves slating for is his slow response to obvious problems on the field. The same people on here were critisising him for not playing kids, not giving youth a chance then when he does he has no balls for big games. It's unbelievable Matt. Everytime we lose he gets the blame. We are going to lose it's that simple he's not the messiah he's just a football manager and too many are massively over critical when we lose yet are on the missing list when we're playing really well. We've lost to Tottenham and Liverpool since January yet allssome want to do is find fault for losing to teams that have more money, pay higher wages and better squads than us. It really pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 The same people on here were critisising him for not playing kids, not giving youth a chance then when he does he has no balls for big games. It's unbelievable Matt. Everytime we lose he gets the blame. We are going to lose it's that simple he's not the messiah he's just a football manager and too many are massively over critical when we lose yet are on the missing list when we're playing really well. We've lost to Tottenham and Liverpool since January yet allssome want to do is find fault for losing to teams that have more money, pay higher wages and better squads than us. It really pisses me off. Which is an overreaction but he is to blame for both the losses this year, and a fair few last year. He is still slowly winning me over, but he's not without glaring faults. Think it's been said already, but he clearly approached this year as a litmus test and actually makes the 2 transfer windows look sensible; there were immediate issues which were addressed but I expect this summer to be a big transfer window. If we don't get 3-4 players to take us further I'll really start doubting the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I think 7th is what should be expected of him at the least. Arsenal have been poor this season so we should be fighting with them for 6th and this is where we are. Martinez was sacked for falling below that expected level so at least Koeman has got us back to where we should be as a minimum. In the cups we have been knocked out early so that's a big disappointment. In terms of the big games I am a little undecided. We definitely battle more but considering how well the City game went and the blueprint it laid, I was very disappointed by how we set up against Spurs and I was also surprised by how he used the players in the derby (as I have mentioned in the other thread). I don't see him as anything special from a tactical point of view but he will win us more points than he loses because bar an odd tactical fuck up, we do the basics pretty well and we work hard and that counts for a lot. Koeman has definitely grown on me. I like his no BS side, I think the players and staff will appreciate it but at the same time I don't think he is as great as he thinks he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 The same people on here were critisising him for not playing kids, not giving youth a chance then when he does he has no balls for big games. It's unbelievable Matt. Everytime we lose he gets the blame. We are going to lose it's that simple he's not the messiah he's just a football manager and too many are massively over critical when we lose yet are on the missing list when we're playing really well. We've lost to Tottenham and Liverpool since January yet allssome want to do is find fault for losing to teams that have more money, pay higher wages and better squads than us. It really pisses me off. Pisses me off too pad he's a great manager. We have a shit squad and he's worked wonders with them and the kids and people getting all in his grill. Everton fans are so fickle. I still maintain we could win the league and they'd find things to bitch about still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I wasn't overly keen on Koeman but to slate his entire Everton managerial career on yesterday is ridiculous. We look 10x healthier under him, than the previous loon. I have issues with some of his management style but even I can't ignore the difference he has made. 1 result. With Morgs, Seamus and Mori out, I wasn't expecting much. Big game players also didn't help (Ross, Rom) and a team full of kids? A loss was kind of inevitable. The way which we lost, is unexcusable but other factors didn't help. Not strictly Koemans fault. One game. Spurs away as well. Nothing worse than being beat before the team have even stepped in the pitch. It's Moyes all over again, small time mentality. He's paid even more, he should have the balls to go for more than a draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Which is an overreaction but he is to blame for both the losses this year, and a fair few last year. He is still slowly winning me over, but he's not without glaring faults. Think it's been said already, but he clearly approached this year as a litmus test and actually makes the 2 transfer windows look sensible; there were immediate issues which were addressed but I expect this summer to be a big transfer window. If we don't get 3-4 players to take us further I'll really start doubting the plan. I disagree, the players were shite in both games. Robles had a mare both times, if he's playing really well we don't lose and he's a genius. Fine margins Matt. Regardless of the system the players have to play well. They are equally responsible in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I disagree, the players were shite in both games. Robles had a mare both times, if he's playing really well we don't lose and he's a genius. Fine margins Matt. Regardless of the system the players have to play well. They are equally responsible in my eyes. He picks them, he prepares them. I'm not intending to imply it's down to him soley, but the setup yesterday was a complete cock-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 He picks them, he prepares them. I'm not intending to imply it's down to him soley, but the setup yesterday was a complete cock-up What was the alternative, play Barry? Look what happened last time. Most wanted 5 at the back there were people on here shouting for Pennington and the kids to be played. Another day, Coutinho has a bad game , Robles has a worldie and we win, it's all fine margins. The way we played yesterday we wouldn't of won regardless of formation. Yes he prepares them and he's prepared them brilliantly all 2017 bar 2 defeats against teams who are better than us. Sometimes you have to accept we lost to a better team instead of looking to lay blame. Everytime we get beat Koeman gets slaughtered for his tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 What was the alternative, play Barry? Look what happened last time. Most wanted 5 at the back there were people on here shouting for Pennington and the kids to be played. Another day, Coutinho has a bad game , Robles has a worldie and we win, it's all fine margins. The way we played yesterday we wouldn't of won regardless of formation. Yes he prepares them and he's prepared them brilliantly all 2017 bar 2 defeats against teams who are better than us. Sometimes you have to accept we lost to a better team instead of looking to lay blame. Everytime we get beat Koeman gets slaughtered for his tactics. I've said earlier you have to start Barry on about other games as Gana isn't disciplined enough. Likewise Jags can't do 3 at the back. First two goals were Gana's fault, everyone blaming the easy targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I've said earlier you have to start Barry on about other games as Gana isn't disciplined enough. Likewise Jags can't do 3 at the back. First two goals were Gana's fault, everyone blaming the easy targets. I'm not blaming anyone individually. The whole team was shite. Robles was awful for 2 of the goals but in reality the shots should never of gotten away. I've been saying for months I'm not sure about Gana at times but nobody is to blame on their own it was a dreadful team performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Everyone comes to this forum with opinions and prejudices, and I accept the fact that I am an occasional critic of Koeman (as some have pointed out), but there's a big difference between my criticism of Koeman and this weekend's criticism of Robles (in another thread). Robles was not the worst player on the field, and he wasn't the sole reason for any of the Liverpool goals. On the other hand, Koeman brought completely the wrong attitude and strategy to this game: It would have been a very different game if he'd gotten it right. I'm not disputing that Koeman has brought positives to the team, but he should not be immune from criticism. I stand by what I wrote earlier: he brings the wrong attitude to big games and gives opponents far too much respect. We could have, should have, beaten this weak Liverpool team, even with the injuries we've sustained recently. I've been a big proponent of bringing in more youngsters, and I give Koeman credit for his about-face in this area. It's wonderful to see Davis, Holgate, DC-L, Lookman, and Pennington playing, and long may that continue. We didn't lose yesterday, though, because of too many youngsters: We lost because of a wrong attitude and poor strategy, and that's Koeman's domain. Why, for example, throw Pennington into a tough position in the derby? Why not play Mirallas for at least half the game? Why not change things around the moment it was clear Liverpool had our formation sussed? Why not yell and scream and make clear that anything less than 100% effort is unacceptable? Koeman's been decisive against lesser teams, so why not in a derby? Yes, he deserves most of the blame in an eminently winnable game. I fear the same will happen against United - a team that couldn't even beat West Brom at home - but here's hoping he proves me wrong and takes the game to them. Edited April 2, 2017 by Cornish Steve MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Everyone comes to this forum with opinions and prejudices, and I accept the fact that I am an occasional critic of Koeman (as some have pointed out), but there's a big difference between my criticism of Koeman and this weekend's criticism of Robles (in another thread). Robles was not the worst player on the field, and he wasn't the sole reason for any of the Liverpool goals. On the other hand, Koeman brought completely the wrong attitude and strategy to this game: It would have been a very different game if he'd gotten it right. I'm not disputing that Koeman has brought positives to the team, but he should not be immune from criticism. I stand by what I wrote earlier: he brings the wrong attitude to big games and gives opponents far too much respect. We could have, should have, beaten this weak Liverpool team, even with the injuries we've sustained recently. I've been a big proponent of bringing in more youngsters, and I give Koeman credit for his about-face in this area. It's wonderful to see Davis, Holgate, DC-L, Lookman, and Pennington playing, and long may that continue. We didn't lose yesterday, though, because of too many youngsters: We lost because of a wrong attitude and poor strategy, and that's Koeman's domain. Why, for example, throw Pennington into a tough position in the derby? Why not play Mirallas for at least half the game? Why not change things around the moment it was clear Liverpool had our formation sussed? Why not yell and scream and make clear that anything less than 100% effort is unacceptable? Koeman's been decisive against lesser teams, so why not in a derby? Yes, he deserves most of the blame in an eminently winnable game. I fear the same will happen against United - a team that couldn't even beat West Brom at home - but here's hoping he proves me wrong and takes the game to them. Couldn't even beat West Brom who beat Arsenal last game and are 8th in the league. Same West Brom we destroyed at Goodison. It doesn't always work out the way it's supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 On the other hand, Koeman brought completely the wrong attitude and strategy to this game: It would have been a very different game if he'd gotten it right. You have hindsight to help you, with the players available what could Koeman have done to win that match? And please don't say play Mirallas, he's not so good that he alone would have changed things. And he definitely would not have helped with those defensive blunders and Robles being leadfooted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Tactics and team selection was all wrong, Pennington was thrown to the lions and should never have been on the pitch and Koeman should take the blame he should have played 4-3-3. Robles Holgate..Jags..Williams..Baines Davies..Gueye..Barry Barkley...Mirallas .....Lukaku..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Barry was shocking at GP against them. We practically played with ten men when they had the ball as he couldn't catch anyone. And are you suggesting Davies providing cover for Holgate? Those two against Mane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Don't forget we were short of some top players, the more experienced players should have played, i think it was a disgrace to throw Pennington into a derby game. The middle three would become five with Ross and Mirallas, the three midfielders of redshite tore us apart. A bad bad game for Koeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Koeman has a lot to answer for. Selection was poor... the subs were wrong. Shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Square pegs, round holes. - Jagielka shouldn't play in a 3. - Holgate Rwb - Gana dcm - DCL left wing It was like David Moyes was back in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Square pegs, round holes. - Gana dcm Where would you play statistically the most effective defensive midfielder in the league then? MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Where would you play statistically the most effective defensive midfielder in the league then?He's not played there most the time it's Barry. Gana is a centre mid. I'd play him there, as third choice behind McCarthy and Davies. Edited April 2, 2017 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 He's not played there most the time it's Barry. Gana is a centre mid. I'd play him there, as third choice behind McCarthy and Davies. The man who has made more tackles than any other player in the league this season should be 3rd choice?! Even after an injured player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 He's not played there most the time it's Barry. Gana is a centre mid. I'd play him there, as third choice behind McCarthy and Davies. He's played there alongside Barry and more recently Schneiderlin all season. Defensive midfielder/ball winning midfielder whatever you want to call it he's our most effective player at regaining possession. Chelsea are built on the solidity of their defence and the work Matic and Kante do. Where I don't see our defensive unit as comparable to theirs yet I don't think the Schneiderlin and Gueye partnership is a million miles behind Matic and Kante. We obviously don't have the quality of Hazard, Pedro and Willian either!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 He's played there alongside Barry and more recently Schneiderlin all season. Defensive midfielder/ball winning midfielder whatever you want to call it he's our most effective player at regaining possession. Chelsea are built on the solidity of their defence and the work Matic and Kante do. Where I don't see our defensive unit as comparable to theirs yet I don't think the Schneiderlin and Gueye partnership is a million miles behind Matic and Kante. We obviously don't have the quality of Hazard, Pedro and Willian either!!! So if Barry and Schneiderlin aren't in the pitch, who does their role? It was meant to be Gana not that anyone could tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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