Romey 1878 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 After having their scrotum's tickled with feathers by Martinez for three years, this is exactly what they needed to change their mentality. Maybe because they had it that way for so long is why Koeman is going so hard at it and when he's shifted the poor mentality fully he won't be quite as "harsh". The damage that Martinez did to us shouldn't be underestimated. Yesterday is an example that the mentality has shifted in a big way - if yesterday had happened under Martinez we'd have completely capitulated, Martinez wouldn't have changed anything and at best got a point out of the game, and likely would have gone on to lose it. Instead, Koeman changed things tactically, the players dug in and calmed down. The patience we showed in the build-up to our fourth goal was unreal considering the way we'd been panicking before then - I think it was 21 passes without Bournemouth touching it. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 You just don't say "Jagielka will be moved out." He's the team captain, a loyal servant, a man with pride. With that one statement, he demoralized and sent the message "I don't want you here." Basic common sense, really, not to do that. Did he actually say that though? Because what I've read is that he said Jags has spoken to him about being unhappy about not starting, Koeman says he understands this as Jags is captain. He refuses to say if he'll leave or not, depends on interest depends on Jags himself. A week later he says he's no leaving. They've spoke, Jags knows the need to fight for his place, Koeman wants the competition, Jags will stay. Sounds to me like it was up to the player...probably like it was with most of the outgoings. Stay and fight or leave and play. Nothing wrong with that. Koeman isn't here as a PR man. He's here to turn around a team of failing players. Which approach is working best do far, the previous one or the present one? Football isn't the office. PC doesn't come into it. To me, someone who says something that isn't true is more damaging than someone who just tells the truth. Romey 1878 and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Did he actually say that though? Because what I've read is that he said Jags has spoken to him about being unhappy about not starting, Koeman says he understands this as Jags is captain. He refuses to say if he'll leave or not, depends on interest depends on Jags himself. A week later he says he's no leaving. They've spoke, Jags knows the need to fight for his place, Koeman wants the competition, Jags will stay. Sounds to me like it was up to the player...probably like it was with most of the outgoings. Stay and fight or leave and play. Nothing wrong with that. Koeman isn't here as a PR man. He's here to turn around a team of failing players. Which approach is working best do far, the previous one or the present one? Football isn't the office. PC doesn't come into it. To me, someone who says something that isn't true is more damaging than someone who just tells the truth. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Did he actually say that though?. Yes. He said exactly that. Let me see whether I can find the article. He was very blunt about Jagielka leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 After having their scrotum's tickled with feathers by Martinez for three years, this is exactly what they needed to change their mentality. Maybe because they had it that way for so long is why Koeman is going so hard at it and when he's shifted the poor mentality fully he won't be quite as "harsh". The damage that Martinez did to us shouldn't be underestimated. Yesterday is an example that the mentality has shifted in a big way - if yesterday had happened under Martinez we'd have completely capitulated, Martinez wouldn't have changed anything and at best got a point out of the game, and likely would have gone on to lose it. Instead, Koeman changed things tactically, the players dug in and calmed down. The patience we showed in the build-up to our fourth goal was unreal considering the way we'd been panicking before then - I think it was 21 passes without Bournemouth touching it. Spot on. He probably could have made the change a bit earlier but it was definitely the right thing to do and you could see straight away that the players were more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Yes. He said exactly that. Let me see whether I can find the article. He was very blunt about Jagielka leaving. Ready when you are. MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 I don't mind anyone saying ..stay and fight or leave and play....but he didn't say that did he. What he said was that there is no stay and fight, your not good enough so I don't want you. Loving the run, but still would prefer the whole Niasse thing to have never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 After having their scrotum's tickled with feathers by Martinez for three years, this is exactly what they needed to change their mentality. Maybe because they had it that way for so long is why Koeman is going so hard at it and when he's shifted the poor mentality fully he won't be quite as "harsh". The damage that Martinez did to us shouldn't be underestimated. Yesterday is an example that the mentality has shifted in a big way - if yesterday had happened under Martinez we'd have completely capitulated, Martinez wouldn't have changed anything and at best got a point out of the game, and likely would have gone on to lose it. Instead, Koeman changed things tactically, the players dug in and calmed down. The patience we showed in the build-up to our fourth goal was unreal considering the way we'd been panicking before then - I think it was 21 passes without Bournemouth touching it. Absolutely. When they scored two unanswered goals I had flashbacks of the 3-3 result from last year -- that's what I was expecting. Glad to be proven wrong. Now I realize our side is more than capable of holding a lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Yes. He said exactly that. Let me see whether I can find the article. He was very blunt about Jagielka leaving. I can't find the article I read at the time, but here's one in the Daily Fail. What I read in this one, though, is quite different from what I read in another at the time. Maybe it revolves around the double meaning of "could leave": "can leave" versus "might leave". I read it as the former, but maybe he meant the latter. With such ambiguity, it's not right for me to accuse Koeman of stating that Jagielka "would" leave. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4136962/Everton-s-Koeman-open-moves-Deulofeu-Jagielka.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 I remember an prematch interview where Koeman said he can go if the offer was right for the club and player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 I don't mind anyone saying ..stay and fight or leave and play....but he didn't say that did he. What he said was that there is no stay and fight, your not good enough so I don't want you. Loving the run, but still would prefer the whole Niasse thing to have never happened. We are not on about Niasse. That did happen yes, regretfully. Koeman arrived and flexed his muscles, made an impact, sent a message. Most of us found the Niasse treatment, or what we know of it, a bit 'urgh'. We are talking about Jags. And he didn't speak the same about Jags. There is no article. All the articles are of the same quotes. You will not find one which quotes Koeman saying that Jags will be sold/got rid of/sent to slaughter/is not wanted. It just didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 I can't find the article I read at the time, but here's one in the Daily Fail. What I read in this one, though, is quite different from what I read in another at the time. Maybe it revolves around the double meaning of "could leave": "can leave" versus "might leave". I read it as the former, but maybe he meant the latter. With such ambiguity, it's not right for me to accuse Koeman of stating that Jagielka "would" leave. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4136962/Everton-s-Koeman-open-moves-Deulofeu-Jagielka.html There's is no article Steve. No where does Koeman say anything close to 'Jags will be moved out'. You've read it in the mindset that when ever Koeman speaks about players, he's a nasty naughty man! You've had a bit to say about how he speaks, it seems to be an irritation to you, to the point that you aren't reading things as they are written...instead you are reading what you want to read! On Jags, pre game conference, he says... "He is not happy because he is not starting and that's a good signal," said Koeman. "What you need to do as a player is fight and make it difficult for the manager. "I don't know [if he will leave this month], it's all about if there is interest for Jag. Of course the last few weeks he did not start but he is important - he is the captain of the team." A week or so later, he says... No. No, No, because we need more than 11 players, Koeman said. I spoke to Phil and he accepts it we spoke about his position and the need to fight like everybody who is not involved or starting because we need competition. We have a lot of competition in the midfield. We need competition with defenders and we need competition with front players. I understand its difficult hes the captain but we like to keep him because he can play an important role to the end of the season. I see nothing at all wrong with this. Apart from Niasse, he's had this approach with all the players who have left. He ain't the big bad Wolf that you think he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 I think he has been clear and consistent with the players. I guess that they can't really ask for more than that if they aren't playing every week. I know I would. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 nutmegwolf203 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 We are not on about Niasse. That did happen yes, regretfully. Koeman arrived and flexed his muscles, made an impact, sent a message. Most of us found the Niasse treatment, or what we know of it, a bit 'urgh'. We are talking about Jags. And he didn't speak the same about Jags. There is no article. All the articles are of the same quotes. You will not find one which quotes Koeman saying that Jags will be sold/got rid of/sent to slaughter/is not wanted. It just didn't happen. Sorry mate, SteveO mentioned them both. Was only talking about Niassegate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Sorry mate, SteveO mentioned them both. Was only talking about Niassegate. Ah no, no worries. Just a harmless debate with good old Cornish...I can only handle one at a time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/764872/Ronald-Koeman-Everton-Manager-Barcelona-Agent-Guido-Albers It begins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 if your manager and some players are rumoured to go to a "bigger" club, you're doing it right. Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Ron has got it wrong though, he's described clown-shoes as follows "is a really good talker". Sorry Ron, listen to the collosal twats lies for 12 months and get back to me. The support that could spot the raging divot early enough had to swallow his shite for near three years. Dante's eighth circle of hell right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I think it was more of a sarcastic dig at him than a compliment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I agree with Matt. It translates to "he talks a lot of shit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I was being ironic and making a point that leads elsewhere. Sar-chasm. Clearly wasn't clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sorry, I've just re-read your post and still can't see it. Maybe it's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sorry, I've just re-read your post and still can't see it. Maybe it's just me. It's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sorry, I've just re-read your post and still can't see it. Maybe it's just me. me neither... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Let it go man, he's gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sorry, I've just re-read your post and still can't see it. Maybe it's just me. No its really not just you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I was being ironic and making a point that leads elsewhere. Sar-chasm. Clearly wasn't clear. Please just get the help you need, every time someone mentions Martinez you have flashbacks and start shouting "Don't panic" like a Toffeetalk version of Cpl Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Please just get the help you need, every time someone mentions Martinez you have flashbacks and start shouting "Don't panic" like a Toffeetalk version of Cpl Jones. His apologists require reminding that the cost of a successful future is vigilance today. Never again should Everton be allowed to be sullied by such a conman. Keep your forgiveness, I'll carry the reminders on your behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 His apologists require reminding that the cost of a successful future is vigilance today. Never again should Everton be allowed to be sullied by such a conman. Keep your forgiveness, I'll carry the reminders on your behalf. Is our current optimism just down to Koeman?, or did Martinez have anything to do with it? Lukaku...ahem...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.