Finn balor Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Serious question, because I'm not as tactically aware as most (which I'm happy to admit). Why is a "number 10" suddenly such an important addition? We had pretty much the same personnel in 13/14 so managed a record points total without one so why is the position now seen as the panacea for us? And who was the last good one we had? This is in no way a facetious point, I really don't the answers. Do you know what? i work with a lad who coaches at Fc United. You know the club that wanted to go back to Uniteds roots? they get 4 thou at a home game in the conference.He gets lads turning up for a trial and he asks what their position is. He reckons all these kids turn up saying im a number 10, and he fucks them off saying there is no such thing! it is a fashion statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Serious question, because I'm not as tactically aware as most (which I'm happy to admit). Why is a "number 10" suddenly such an important addition? We had pretty much the same personnel in 13/14 so managed a record points total without one so why is the position now seen as the panacea for us? And who was the last good one we had? This is in no way a facetious point, I really don't the answers. We played with a faster pace the first season so it wasn't as much of a problem. We need someone to get in the pockets and link up the midfield to Lukaku. We had Cahill to push back the opposition and flick on the ball forward just not as fancy as the type of player who we need to do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Serious question, because I'm not as tactically aware as most (which I'm happy to admit). Why is a "number 10" suddenly such an important addition? We had pretty much the same personnel in 13/14 so managed a record points total without one so why is the position now seen as the panacea for us? And who was the last good one we had? This is in no way a facetious point, I really don't the answers. Its not sudden. We need someone to feed our goalscorer. 1st season, with a new dynamic, we were unknown to a degree; defensive resilience on top of fast attacking play based on new believe after being so predictable and sussed for 10 years. Then, Martinez stepped up his ideal of being "Spain 2008"; he did a gentle introduction to his philosophy to full blow "this is how I want to play". He wants to control possession more than he did in the first season, which was almost a Holloway approach of "we'll out score you, bring it". It was quick and confident initially which went to "Fuck! I don't want the ball! But the boss says 'keep the ball' errrrrrr, you have it!" = panic and then mistakes. We need that someone who is actually capable of linking up play, with the ideal of building from the back and can facilitate and chance creation to the person bought to put it in the net. We don't have that, so we're asking that big lad up front to do the job as if Walter Smith and Joe Walker are still in charge. Martinez is 5-7 years behind the game or a purist to boring football. The future is pressure football. Vault me. mike that season barry was playing that role in my opinion. he was the more advanced of the 2 DCM and he was threading passes to all the midfielders and striker orchestrating the attack. Barkley was ACM and he also played a bit of this role, he drove the ball forward to pass or take a shot himself. So my answer is both those players gave us the closest to the "10 role". Mirallas led the team with assists so an argument could be made for him as well, but i stand by my assertion. the reason we need it so badly now is due to the style of football we play post 2013/2014. mccarthy and barry seem to have been ordered to just sit and defend, with mccarthy now being tasked to push forward. barry is the better passer and has better vision, so this limits us. also ross has been instructed not to run with the ball (seemingly so) and just make quick touch passes to the other players. this means all the space he used to create which made other players open is now gone and so there are no open passes or open players because he's not pulling them off their man. honestly with moyes i felt like pienaar was our 10. he would link up with everyone in the box and was the creative force attacking and being positive in the box. he cut inside and didn't just stay on the left. the year he was gone was similar to last year in that we just lacked that creative impetus in the final third. someone to take the ball and either pass it off or drive it in to attack. Sorry dude. Stopped paying much attention after that statement. Barry has never played a more advanced role past the centre cirlce. Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Do you know what? i work with a lad who coaches at Fc United. You know the club that wanted to go back to Uniteds roots? they get 4 thou at a home game in the conference.He gets lads turning up for a trial and he asks what their position is. He reckons all these kids turn up saying im a number 10, and he fucks them off saying there is no such thing! it is a fashion statement. Then he has clearly never heard of link up play or youth development... Edited August 11, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Sorry dude. Stopped paying much attention after that statement. Barry has never played a more advanced role past the centre cirlce. matt i wasn't using 10 in the traditional sense as in positioning. i just meant barry was more creative passing wise and that version of him spurred us on in attack. they come in all different sizes, they don't just have to be david silva in an ACM position. busquets sits back and he still creates. don't know if that makes sense or not. Edited August 11, 2015 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Then he has clearly never heard of link up play or youth development... this is a lad who has been at the club since its started. They have come from nowhere. He has seen the club rise from shit sunday league players who now waltz in with a cv and an agent claiming to be a number 10. so where does your smug comment stand now matt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 this is a lad who has been at the club since its started. They have come from nowhere. He has seen the club rise from shit sunday league players who now waltz in with a cv and an agent claiming to be a number 10. so where does your smug comment stand now matt?smug? Not at all, though I see it being disrespectful so I apologise. Agents claiming a player is something he's not is one thing, a player coming I saying that's what he wants to be and being turned away is another. I've got family turned away from Everton and Liverpool because if that, so maybe I took it too personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 this is a lad who has been at the club since its started. They have come from nowhere. He has seen the club rise from shit sunday league players who now waltz in with a cv and an agent claiming to be a number 10. so where does your smug comment stand now matt? My mate helped set up FC United. They've come a long way in a very short time, now even owning their own ground! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Mike0 has a point... the 'number 10 as playmaker' is a bit of a throw back to 4-4-2, the nippy lad with good feet who played off the target man. Beardsley springs to mind as a classic example. It's also been a typical number in sides who play an advanced 'pivot' player a la Riquelme. In our 4-2-3-1 set up, it means the guy who plays in the middle of the 3. But to be fair, the number on the shirt nor the position on the field determines who a playmaker is. In sides that play 4-3-3, there's no such thing as a 'traditional number 10', so a team like Barca has had Xavi who sits deep, Iniesta who cuts in from the left, and Messi who is a winger/forward - you'd call all of them 'playmakers', none of them a 'number 10'. What we're after is a player who can pass, dictate tempo, spot a killer ball and chip in with goals, regardless of whether they operate deep or high, box-to-box or either side. The kind of player we all hope and dream Barkley will become, essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 It's quite simple.... We're looking for someone to play in the hole.... Where Barkley is currently playing.... That's our 10.... How hard is that to take in lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) To me in Martinez's first season the playmaker was very much Barry but from a deep position. The Center Backs would split, Barry would come back and pick the Ball up from Deep and then we would look to play it quickly down one wing or the other. Usually a pass to an advanced winger with the fullbacks then overlapping to receive the ball and either cross or cut in to shoot/short pass to edge of box. This then seemed to get sussed by the opposition by pressing us high up the pitch, forcing in to mistakes at the back and in defensive midfield. Barry also seemed to lose the ability to pick a pass from the back in season 2 as well. The few games that Darren Gibson either started in place of Barry or replaced him as sub last year I thought he picked this role up very well and we looked a lot better. Since getting sussed, Martinez seems to have pushed the playmaker role up the pitch to the AM/No.10 role and on to Ross, which has seemed to result in slower build up play and less overlapping by the Fullbacks. Unfortunately I just don't think this is Ross's best position. I think he plays I'm hoping that Martinez is looking for a more creative No.10 so that we can set ourselves up to play both ways, depending on how the opposition are set-up. If we are pressed high up the pitch, we look to play up to the 10 to exploit the space left behind the players pressing us. If we're not being pressed high up the pitch we look to play more from deep via the wings and overlapping fullbacks with Ross playing instead of Barry. If we are to continue playing the way we do currently we most definitely need a full on creative no.10 to play in the hole and they are rarer than rocking horse poo. Edited August 11, 2015 by Trigger Chach and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Personally you have a central attacking midfielder or you have a second striker. I must admit this number 10 thing is football manager bollocks. It's just years ago in continental football the skillful players wore number 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 #10 used to be the left inside forward. Due to tactical changes #8 was pulled back, of course the context was different but I guess it was just more logical that #10 was higher up the pitch than #8. The number has been worn by quite a few great players, including Maradona. And lest we forget, even in England the norm was that #9 was the big, bulky forward and #10 was the nippy one if the team played with that sort of pairing. Today it just refers more or less to the CAM (more FM bollocks). Current football tactics seem to suggest two forwards is just too many. You give up too much in the midfield. Some teams like Barca even play without a recognized striker (the 4-6-0 formation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think Number 10 is just an attacking midfielder who's primary role is to connect the play from midfield to the forwards (however many that may be). We do need someone to provide the ammo, no question. Sibdane and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 My problem with the the whole shaqiri deal to stoke is, that it's not the fact we didn't sign him, I think he could be trouble, it's the lack of ambition by our board! Bloody Stoke for Christs sake!! Everybody harps on about people saying everton are not a big club, well gentleman that lack of ambition goes to prove beyond doubt that we aren't a big club anymore! It's all very good trying to get the finances stable but we are being left behind, Bill needs to find someone to buy the club and quick, otherwise we are in deep shit! Not owning much money is not going to keep us in the premiership, it's all about the money these days and no matter how many of us hate Utd, Chelsea, Man City, arsenal, Spurs etc etc they get trophies by spending cash, those who don't get fuck all, those like us who spend next to nothing get relegated and my fear is last season was a warning, in a few seasons time it could well be a reality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Yeah, but if you refer to that player as "we need an attacking midfielder who's primary role is to connect the play from midfield to the forwards (however many that may be)" every time it would be pretty awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/news/30556.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/news/30556.html We're not buying anyone else are we! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 If wedon't there will be riots. I think we'll get Evans and Lennon and that'll be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 We're not buying anyone else are we! Notice how it's a couple of signings now? It's very much got the feel of last January - we all know we need to make signings but nothing happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Notice how it's a couple of signings now? It's very much got the feel of last January - we all know we need to make signings but nothing happens. I've never been so worried, before we've gotten away with it with a few good signings, but I feel it's changed, good players are going to middle of the road teams and we aren't seeming to buy anyone! We won't compete in a season or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Notice how it's a couple of signings now? It's very much got the feel of last January - we all know we need to make signings but nothing happens. On top of that low league positions will make the good players leave. It's a vicious cycle of events. It needs sorting and getting rid is the only way to go for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 If we don't sign three players, and Stones goes, I expect a very different Everton to emerge from the rubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 He said three signings again in the pre-Southampton press conference :jump for joy: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 He better hurry up, he's only going to make the back lash worse if he doesn't get them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 He better hurry up, he's only going to make the back lash worse if he doesn't get them! It'll be Lennon a cb and a young 10 on loan I think. One will defo be a loan imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Pad you got me excites now. Anyone know if there is any truth in the Kagawa rumour? That would be a great signing for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Where did the Kagawa mention come from? Haven't seen anything on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Where did the Kagawa mention come from? Haven't seen anything on this... Check Twitter Transfer Rumours in Rumourama section. It's 99.99% bullshit I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiediow Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think it will be Evans, Lennon & Pato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.