Board/Owners Related Stuff

[Romey 1878]

 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Bingo. Selling our morals for an owner who can buy us success apparently.

I’m hoping it’s because we have uncovered unfair rules and unjust charges in our own investigation and that we’re doing the right thing and making a stand so others don’t get treated as badly.

That is my hope anyway haha.

[Romey 1878]

The Manoukian bid seems like the best deal for the club currently, with it being an all equity bid, but whether its the best bid for Moshiri will more than likely be the deciding factor in whatever deal is accepted.

Hopefully the two can be the same thing.

[Sev]

As long as it isn't mancunian

[Hafnia]

44 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

The Manoukian bid seems like the best deal for the club currently, with it being an all equity bid, but whether its the best bid for Moshiri will more than likely be the deciding factor in whatever deal is accepted.

Hopefully the two can be the same thing.

Textor apparently been jibbed off.  

cam someone please explain this all equity piece?  What is the significance. 

Is all equity meaning they will buy all his shares? 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Hence why I don’t want a Middle Eastern owner. 

[RuffRob]

The sad reality is that two of the clubs with the fullest trophy room over the past 20 years or so are Chelsea and Man City. Liverpool, Arsenal and even to a degree Man Utd (in last 10 years at least) look that their success with evny.  

Prior to the 'money' coming in to these clubs, there would be little arguement that Everton FC was by far the bigger club of the three.

The limitation of Goodison Park has held us back in being turned in to a behemoth of global football - that will all change in less than a season time now.  

It plain to see this is having a significant impact on the parties that are now showing an interest in buying us. The closer we get to the stadium being finished and us still being a Premiership club then the 'risk' in buying Everton rapidly diminishes.

What money can do it give you the leg up that is needed to be able to get you dine at the top table. Look at the revenues that Man City and Chelsea are both able to now self generate all based on success that was initially bought.  

Is it selling your morals or simply the harsh reaility of what is needed to build the next generation of both a local and global fan base? becasue it is this 21st century fanbase that help drive the revenues needed to be a club at or around the top of the tree.

We need to become the next premier league club that it becomes 'fashionable' to support. Once you get a supporter its generally for life!!! Man City being the massive global club it now is has been 15years in the making with a fuck load of money thrown at it. 

On the back of a new stadium complex, if Man City can do it from being the second team in a city, then there is no reason Everton couldn't do it, especially if Man City's upcoming hearing does help relax some of the current overly strict financial rules.

 

 

[Romey 1878]

We did our bit for the league when the sly 6 tried to destroy it and then the league turned around and targeted us to protect themselves from the government.

So, quite frankly, fuck them.

[Goodison Glory]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Textor apparently been jibbed off.  

cam someone please explain this all equity piece?  What is the significance. 

Is all equity meaning they will buy all his shares? 

Not really Haf. Anyone buying the club is going to buy all of Moshri's shares.

All equity just means the prospective bidder is saying they don't need to borrow to raise the funds needed to buy the club. Three factors usually come into a sellers mind when comparing competitive bids; the price (obviously)...but assuming the offers are similar then speed and risk come into it - someone who needs to raise funding through borrowing probably can't complete the deal as quickly and has a risk for the deal to fall through.

the best way I can think to explain would be if you were selling your house and you had 3 offers of a similar amount, but one needed to sell their house first, the other didnt need to sell but needed a mortgage and the 3rd could you pay you without needing to sell or needing a mortgage. You would prob go for the latter.

In our case, the latter is Makounian. 

 

[Hafnia]

9 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

Not really Haf. Anyone buying the club is going to buy all of Moshri's shares.

All equity just means the prospective bidder is saying they don't need to borrow to raise the funds needed to buy the club. Three factors usually come into a sellers mind when comparing competitive bids; the price (obviously)...but assuming the offers are similar then speed and risk come into it - someone who needs to raise funding through borrowing probably can't complete the deal as quickly and has a risk for the deal to fall through.

the best way I can think to explain would be if you were selling your house and you had 3 offers of a similar amount, but one needed to sell their house first, the other didnt need to sell but needed a mortgage and the 3rd could you pay you without needing to sell or needing a mortgage. You would prob go for the latter.

In our case, the latter is Makounian. 

 

Makes perfect sense! Cheers. 
The opposite of a leveraged buyout. 
 

I don't like the idea of a takeover being funded against stadium so makes perfect sense to me. 

[patto]

I’m no wizard on finance but apparently we pay 30m a year for our debts if say Bell and Downing are successful and pay off the debt that 30m becomes theirs or could charge a lower rate making it better for the club. 
or restructure the loan over a longer period 

[Hafnia]

18 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

We did our bit for the league when the sly 6 tried to destroy it and then the league turned around and targeted us to protect themselves from the government.

So, quite frankly, fuck them.

I'm going to enjoy Man City bloodying the nose of the premier league. 
 

ultimately city need to face punishment for being cheats but it's like watching 2 bullies in school having a scrap..... you want them both to get a broken nose and look embarrassed. 

[Sev]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

The sad reality is that two of the clubs with the fullest trophy room over the past 20 years or so are Chelsea and Man City. Liverpool, Arsenal and even to a degree Man Utd (in last 10 years at least) look that their success with evny.  

Prior to the 'money' coming in to these clubs, there would be little arguement that Everton FC was by far the bigger club of the three.

The limitation of Goodison Park has held us back in being turned in to a behemoth of global football - that will all change in less than a season time now.  

It plain to see this is having a significant impact on the parties that are now showing an interest in buying us. The closer we get to the stadium being finished and us still being a Premiership club then the 'risk' in buying Everton rapidly diminishes.

What money can do it give you the leg up that is needed to be able to get you dine at the top table. Look at the revenues that Man City and Chelsea are both able to now self generate all based on success that was initially bought.  

Is it selling your morals or simply the harsh reaility of what is needed to build the next generation of both a local and global fan base? becasue it is this 21st century fanbase that help drive the revenues needed to be a club at or around the top of the tree.

We need to become the next premier league club that it becomes 'fashionable' to support. Once you get a supporter its generally for life!!! Man City being the massive global club it now is has been 15years in the making with a fuck load of money thrown at it. 

On the back of a new stadium complex, if Man City can do it from being the second team in a city, then there is no reason Everton couldn't do it, especially if Man City's upcoming hearing does help relax some of the current overly strict financial rules.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I really don't like Chelsea or Man. City and how they are and have been run. If it's just about being the next Justin fucking Bieber then it's pointless to me, at least.

It should be about football and club spirit. Money is boring but sadly needed. I really don't want to see we "sell" ourselves out to whatever is hype.

[Formby]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

It was only a matter of time. 

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Sev said:

I'm sorry, but I really don't like Chelsea or Man. City and how they are and have been run. If it's just about being the next Justin fucking Bieber then it's pointless to me, at least.

It should be about football and club spirit. Money is boring but sadly needed. I really don't want to see we "sell" ourselves out to whatever is hype.

As a Everton fan in his 50's I can't say I like 'Chelsea or Man City either, but what is very noticible is that there are plenty that do - Nowerdays in North Wales and when travelling further afeild I see lots and lots of youngsters who wear Chelsea and Man City football shirts. When I grew up it was only Liverpool, Everton or Man U.

Like I said, its the sad reality of modern day football - Money. A club has to either extract more money out of the current fan base, or appeal to a much bigger fan base and begin to extract revenue out of them. 

If we want to see a winning/competing Everton side again, then I am not sure how you do that without going down this type of road. As a club we need to become relavent again to those beyond our current loyal fan base. 

 

[RuffRob]

2 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

Not really Haf. Anyone buying the club is going to buy all of Moshri's shares.

All equity just means the prospective bidder is saying they don't need to borrow to raise the funds needed to buy the club. Three factors usually come into a sellers mind when comparing competitive bids; the price (obviously)...but assuming the offers are similar then speed and risk come into it - someone who needs to raise funding through borrowing probably can't complete the deal as quickly and has a risk for the deal to fall through.

the best way I can think to explain would be if you were selling your house and you had 3 offers of a similar amount, but one needed to sell their house first, the other didnt need to sell but needed a mortgage and the 3rd could you pay you without needing to sell or needing a mortgage. You would prob go for the latter.

In our case, the latter is Makounian. 

 

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Makes perfect sense! Cheers. 
The opposite of a leveraged buyout. 
 

I don't like the idea of a takeover being funded against stadium so makes perfect sense to me. 

 

and all your investment money is in 'shares' of the club and not in loans, you don't have to make monthly repayment on your accounts .  This is what has been fucking us up for years, paying the interest as it keeps you under the thumb. 

I think the Rights and Media Loan (around £200M) is base rate plus 5% - so 5.25+5 (10.25%), so £22.5M just in interest alone for that one loan, and we now have a few loand now. If you pay off all the loan and simply then has the equity in the club instead - just that only loan paid means £22.5M outgoing in the accounts removed.

New owner then theoretical makes his investment pay via either a annual profit from the club or in the longer term the value of his equity increases.

 

[Romey 1878]

 

[Goodison Glory]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

 

and all your investment money is in 'shares' of the club and not in loans, you don't have to make monthly repayment on your accounts .  This is what has been fucking us up for years, paying the interest as it keeps you under the thumb. 

I think the Rights and Media Loan (around £200M) is base rate plus 5% - so 5.25+5 (10.25%), so £22.5M just in interest alone for that one loan, and we now have a few loand now. If you pay off all the loan and simply then has the equity in the club instead - just that only loan paid means £22.5M outgoing in the accounts removed.

New owner then theoretical makes his investment pay via either a annual profit from the club or in the longer term the value of his equity increases.

 

The all-equity offer is not buying up all the debt, so there will still be interest payments to make. You are correct in the sense there will not be "yet another" loan repayment to make. 

The equity bid is equivalent to £400M (according to reports) so that is not enough to buy out all the debt. 

What he is buying is all of Moshri's shares (95% ownership) and I assume a write-off of the £450M of loans Moshri gave to the club that were not interest bearing nor did they have to be repaid.

The interest bearing loans will still be there but as I understand Makounian would negotiate different terms with the lenders, which could very well be at lower interest rates. He has also promised some operational cash in addition to the £400M so that would cover day to day running of the club, avoid us borrowing more (like we did with 777).

That's my view of it anyway.

 

[Sev]

3 hours ago, RuffRob said:

As a Everton fan in his 50's I can't say I like 'Chelsea or Man City either, but what is very noticible is that there are plenty that do - Nowerdays in North Wales and when travelling further afeild I see lots and lots of youngsters who wear Chelsea and Man City football shirts. When I grew up it was only Liverpool, Everton or Man U.

Like I said, its the sad reality of modern day football - Money. A club has to either extract more money out of the current fan base, or appeal to a much bigger fan base and begin to extract revenue out of them. 

If we want to see a winning/competing Everton side again, then I am not sure how you do that without going down this type of road. As a club we need to become relavent again to those beyond our current loyal fan base. 

 

It's player names and heavily sponsored European tournaments that attracts the modern younger boy/girl or man/woman. We're mostly older farts here and were brought up in another way and time. I can't help but wonder how faihful the modern/younger fan is to a club when things wrong these days.

If you want a broader and wider fan base you have to compromise with certain things. And spend money, a lot of it. I'm of course aware of that.

The problem, however, could be that it's just a short term of success. And what is a short term in modern football anyway, you could ask. 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? I prefer more secure long term solutions rather than the whatever-is-hype thing. Yes, I'm a dinosaur ... but I think the keywords are stability and progression; not too fast and not too slow.

Oh, and next time you see a snotty kid in a Chelsea or Man. City shirt, you know what you have to do

[dunlopp9987]

36 minutes ago, Sev said:

It's player names and heavily sponsored European tournaments that attracts the modern younger boy/girl or man/woman. We're mostly older farts here and were brought up in another way and time. I can't help but wonder how faihful the modern/younger fan is to a club when things wrong these days.

If you want a broader and wider fan base you have to compromise with certain things. And spend money, a lot of it. I'm of course aware of that.

The problem, however, could be that it's just a short term of success. And what is a short term in modern football anyway, you could ask. 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? I prefer more secure long term solutions rather than the whatever-is-hype thing. Yes, I'm a dinosaur ... but I think the keywords are stability and progression; not too fast and not too slow.

Oh, and next time you see a snotty kid in a Chelsea or Man. City shirt, you know what you have to do

I didn't start watching the sport in earnest till 2009/10, when I was 22. Started supporting Everton shortly thereafter, been to Goodison twice, loyalty has never wavered.

I do think there's probably a world where the younger fans aren't as loyal, but there's plenty of us who, despite not having a long-standing history with the club, feel a real deep loyalty and connection with their chosen club

[Matt Tiger]

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I didn't start watching the sport in earnest till 2009/10, when I was 22. Started supporting Everton shortly thereafter, been to Goodison twice, loyalty has never wavered.

I do think there's probably a world where the younger fans aren't as loyal, but there's plenty of us who, despite not having a long-standing history with the club, feel a real deep loyalty and connection with their chosen club

For what it’s worth, I’m almost identical in terms of situation. Just made my first goodison trip this past year, but I didn’t start watching until I was 19 around 2007, started supporting Everton in 2009, and haven’t looked back. I went on my first goodison trip with a friend of mine who began supporting under completely different circumstances 7 or 8 years ago but is still unwavering. 
 

who knows whether this will change, but historically kids have gravitated towards the best or most marketable stars within a sport but then find their passion for a club through other avenues (be it their hometown or something else). Hopefully it remains that way. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I didn't start watching the sport in earnest till 2009/10, when I was 22. Started supporting Everton shortly thereafter, been to Goodison twice, loyalty has never wavered.

I do think there's probably a world where the younger fans aren't as loyal, but there's plenty of us who, despite not having a long-standing history with the club, feel a real deep loyalty and connection with their chosen club

 

14 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

For what it’s worth, I’m almost identical in terms of situation. Just made my first goodison trip this past year, but I didn’t start watching until I was 19 around 2007, started supporting Everton in 2009, and haven’t looked back. I went on my first goodison trip with a friend of mine who began supporting under completely different circumstances 7 or 8 years ago but is still unwavering. 
 

who knows whether this will change, but historically kids have gravitated towards the best or most marketable stars within a sport but then find their passion for a club through other avenues (be it their hometown or something else). Hopefully it remains that way. 

Fans of Everton that come from far and wide have my full admiration. 

[Matt]

17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

Fans of Everton that come from far and wide have my full admiration. 

My scepticism. Why would anyone do this to themselves willingly?

[dunlopp9987]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

My scepticism. Why would anyone do this to themselves willingly?

Because I'm a lifelong Minnesota sports fan and if there's one thing I'm well conditioned to deal with, it's a lifetime of mediocrity and disappointment and the one season every so often that gives you hope

[Romey 1878]

20 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Because I'm a lifelong Minnesota sports fan and if there's one thing I'm well conditioned to deal with, it's a lifetime of mediocrity and disappointment and the one season every so often that gives you hope

You a Viking?

[dunlopp9987]

2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You a Viking?

Oddly enough, the one Minnesota sports team I don't support. I'm a Packer fan, so I did get to celebrate super bowl wins in 97 and 2011!

But honestly, don't really give a shit about the NFL anymore

[Palfy]

33 minutes ago, Matt said:

My scepticism. Why would anyone do this to themselves willingly?

God knows it’s something I’ve wondered about for awhile, at least you can say you were indoctrinated by your father, I’ve only got myself to blame

[Haiku]

3 hours ago, Sev said:

The problem, however, could be that it's just a short term of success. And what is a short term in modern football anyway, you could ask. 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? I prefer more secure long term solutions rather than the whatever-is-hype thing. Yes, I'm a dinosaur ... but I think the keywords are stability and progression; not too fast and not too slow.

Most football fans remain loyal for the rest of their lives. Yes, they are often brought in by the hype especially during their younger days. I would say that if Man City suddenly fell off a cliff and became a regular mid table team, their fanbase would not see a significant decline for at least one generation, which is about 25-30 years. Just my thoughts.

[Matt Tiger]

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Because I'm a lifelong Minnesota sports fan and if there's one thing I'm well conditioned to deal with, it's a lifetime of mediocrity and disappointment and the one season every so often that gives you hope

Lemme tell you, I'm a lifelong Philly sports fan and Philly native, and while we've had some wonderful sports seasons in my lifetime if there's one thing we know its masochism.

[Cornish Steve]

40 minutes ago, Matt Tiger said:

Lemme tell you, I'm a lifelong Philly sports fan and Philly native, and while we've had some wonderful sports seasons in my lifetime if there's one thing we know its masochism.

Is it true that, from the moment new buildings exceeded the height of the Billy Penn statue, Philly teams won nothing until the year someone relocated the statue so it was again the highest point in the city, all Philly teams won their sport?