Hafnia Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 *Sigh* Why don't you read the article? Did Green loan money to the owners of Southampton, Fulham, Reading and West Ham to buy the clubs? From my understanding of the article, I did read it late at night.... Unless an investigation or by change of some sort of truth serum being injected into Wyness, Kenwright, Earl, Birch, Elstone etc we are in serious trouble in terms of not being able to compete. We will never be free of debt as needless loans are being taken out at rates of 10% when LIBOR is at 0.33%. We have effectively become some sort of operation someone put a very succinct stement forward:- If every blue asked the following question, what defense could the Board offer? To remain competitive, Everton as a business is desperately short of capital. The capital can come from three sources: Existing shareholders New shareholders Sell the club to an owner that can provide the necessary funding for the team, stadium and commercial activities Which is it to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 another interesting post on NSNO:- I read a lot of Watched Toffees stuff and over the past week did a bit of digging myself and everything he has checks out. Although it's all in the public domain so there isn't any revelations as such, just knowing what to look for.Essentially all roads lead to Robert Earl who, whilst a wealthy man, isn't wealthy enough to be lending out the sums of money which he does, if you believe the VIBRAC connections, which look pretty conclusive. However he is best mates with a secretive billionaire who bases himself offshore and has plenty of cash.Watched Toffee is putting 2 and 2 together and making 4 and while all roads point to 4 there still needs proof and as someone who works in offshore finance myself, when it come to British Virgin Islands, not even the U.S. government can get it such are there secrecy laws.However what it boils down to is we have mortgaged everything physical out, as well as future TV revenues, to a shady company based offshore and are paying above average rates of interest which, in a time of obscene TV cash, is totally unacceptable and points to people using the money as a cash cow for their own gain.Whatever the truth of the matter questions need to be asked, if for nothing else, to set the record straight and prove we aren't being milked for the benefit of a couple of wealthy mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 *Sigh* I did read the article. I was questioning the bit in bold though. Sorry if it wasn't clear. And you still asked that? Sorry but you either didn't understand what you read or ... well, that's the only reason I can think of. Those two are not automatically tied together. We would need to find how much the other clubs pay interest. As hafnia says, we pay almost 10% interest rate when the going rate is close to 0. And this is practically risk-free, since even if we were relegated the 100 million parachute payment would make sure the lender got his money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Earl and green are spurs fans? That explains having former JG boy Levy run it over there. They want one of their own running their club. We get kenwright, who is a professional actor when it comes to Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Surely we should be looking at net spend? Would have Southampton spent £41.2m without the £37.5m received? Highly unlikely. Their board has only had to invest £3.7m. Hahaha sorry but your not allowed to do that! That makes too much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Southampton spent in 12/13 and 13/14 about 70 million NET on transfers. Edited September 2, 2015 by Makis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm sure all you Kenwright apologists and pro-board people will find this article boring but for the rest of us it makes interesting reading: http://evertonviral.com/who-is-the-main-player-in-the-everton-show/ A good read. You always have to give credit to someone who seems to have put a lot of effort into researching the content of the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 So from what I can gather..... Not factual I may add as there is no concrete evidence (disclaimer) The club is taking yearly loans against future TV revenue from Phillip Green. Masked by offshore companies. Green bought Gregg's shares for Kenwright but Robert Earl is Greens front. Green is taking money from the club through interest on those loans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 So from what I can gather..... Not factual I may add as there is no concrete evidence (disclaimer) The club is taking yearly loans against future TV revenue from Phillip Green. Masked by offshore companies. Green bought Gregg's shares for Kenwright but Robert Earl is Greens front. Green is taking money from the club through interest on those loans? Think that's the idea! But I'm also thinking that Green has found a way to make money from several football clubs using the same model. He's a businessman at the end of the day? Got to admit, I have always wondered how Kenwright bought his shares considering he is worth so little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Think that's the idea! But I'm also thinking that Green has found a way to make money from several football clubs using the same model. He's a businessman at the end of the day? Got to admit, I have always wondered how Kenwright bought his shares considering he is worth so little. So essentially Green has become our Bank. But isn't he taxing himself if the shares really are his by charging us interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Kenwright's lies started from the very first interviews claiming he mortgaged his house to buy the club when the house had been mortgaged four years earlier. And MC11's analysis is correct, that's the gist of it. Green would in reality be controlling the club if he gave the money to both Kenwright and Earl. Green doesn't really own the shares, he's just lent the money. From his point of view getting that money annually is much better than waiting for repayment on the loans he gave for the shares. It's practically the same as if someone could pay dividents to only himself, not every shareholder. Law doesn't allow this as all shareholders must be treated equally (i.e. if you pay dividents, you pay the same amount for each share*). And fans wouldn't take too kindly if the club started paying them instead of spending the money on players. * Yes, there are different kinds of shares in some companies, but let's keep this simple. EFC does not have them, every share is worth the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 So essentially Green has become our Bank. But isn't he taxing himself if the shares really are his by charging us interest? Not really, I don't think. If true, it's a way to get money out 'through the back door'. But as said, it seems to be a growing trend that other clubs are doing this. Green being a savvy businessman has probably jumped on the fact that banks are hesitant to lend like they used to. He's maybe filled a void left by the banks. The business world us full of these complex networks of 'Limited' companies. It's just tax dodging and money making 'legal' scams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Not really, I don't think. If true, it's a way to get money out 'through the back door'. But as said, it seems to be a growing trend that other clubs are doing this. Green being a savvy businessman has probably jumped on the fact that banks are hesitant to lend like they used to. He's maybe filled a void left by the banks. The business world us full of these complex networks of 'Limited' companies. It's just tax dodging and money making 'legal' scams. right it's all legal. i think Makis point is that the clubs best interests aren't at the forefront. instead it's green making money. they're not looking to "improve everton to be the best" its just a cow they are milking and have BK up there doing the song and dance routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 So from what I can gather..... Not factual I may add as there is no concrete evidence (disclaimer) The club is taking yearly loans against future TV revenue from Phillip Green. Masked by offshore companies. Green bought Gregg's shares for Kenwright but Robert Earl is Greens front. Green is taking money from the club through interest on those loans? It's not "masked" at all, Louis has been posting details of Vibrac loans for years. The company is approved by the Premier League which is why other clubs have used them. The only thing we don't know for sure is who owns them because they're based in the Virgin Islands so don't have to divulge. Vibrac are registered in the same building as Earl's company so the assumption is made that he's involved with them which is understandable but not provable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) It's not "masked" at all, Louis has been posting details of Vibrac loans for years. The company is approved by the Premier League which is why other clubs have used them. The only thing we don't know for sure is who owns them because they're based in the Virgin Islands so don't have to divulge. Vibrac are registered in the same building as Earl's company so the assumption is made that he's involved with them which is understandable but not provable. I'm not saying Vibrac is masked. I'm saying Greens involvement with Vibrac is. Pretty obvious he is behind them. The latest loan also came from a company registered in the same building as Vibrac & Earl (that's what I've read anyway).Come on Mike I know you don't like conspiracies but it's not hard to put the pieces together on this one. The companies and offices are most likely Greens. Edited September 2, 2015 by MC11 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 right it's all legal. i think Makis point is that the clubs best interests aren't at the forefront. instead it's green making money. they're not looking to "improve everton to be the best" its just a cow they are milking and have BK up there doing the song and dance routine. Business men make money. And do it well. I'm not defending or attacking, I feel fairly 'neutral', I'm quite open to all arguments. I find it quite interesting. I will say though that I would be pretty confident that this sort of thing goes on at many football clubs. Football is a huge cow ripe for milking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm not saying Vibrac is masked. I'm saying Greens involvement with Vibrac is. Pretty obvious he is behind them. The latest loan also came from a company registered in the same building as Vibrac & Earl (that's what I've read anyway).Come on Mike I know you don't like conspiracies but it's not hard to put the pieces together on this one. The companies and offices are most likely Greens. Not disagreeing that the circumstantial evidence is strong, as far as Earl is concerned at least. The Green connection I'm not convinced by, he said in 2008... "Everybody knows I'm a friend of Bill Kenwright, and I helped him get Everton. "It is his club and his ball. He asked me for advice - If people ring me up and on a confidential basis ask me to help, what is wrong with that? "Dozens of people call me up and they get free advice. I am always willing to help. I have no interest in investing in football, I could have invested 10 years ago but I did not." One day the truth will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Not disagreeing that the circumstantial evidence is strong, as far as Earl is concerned at least. The Green connection I'm not convinced by, he said in 2008... "Everybody knows I'm a friend of Bill Kenwright, and I helped him get Everton. "It is his club and his ball. He asked me for advice - If people ring me up and on a confidential basis ask me to help, what is wrong with that? "Dozens of people call me up and they get free advice. I am always willing to help. I have no interest in investing in football, I could have invested 10 years ago but I did not." One day the truth will come out. So why did Gregg lie to KEIOC? Edited September 2, 2015 by Makis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 So why did Gregg lie to KEIOC? My knowledge is not encyclopaedic, so I've no idea what occasion you're referring to. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 My knowledge is not encyclopaedic, so I've no idea what occasion you're referring to. Sorry. Gregg told KEIOC people in a meeting that his shares were bought with money from Green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Gregg told KEIOC people in a meeting that his shares were bought with money from Green. So if Green was lending money to Gregg where's the lie? I've just bought a motorbike with borrowed money, doesn't mean the lender owns the bike. I do (as well as the debt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Gregg told KEIOC people in a meeting that his shares were bought with money from Green. This has been stated on 2 seperate occasions... Paul Gregg, and secondly it was the reason for wyness walking. So.... How has kenwright paid him back... If at all??? Now if he hasn't is the club paying for itself??? Is that where the operating costs are going??? I dunno but nothing would surprised me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 This has been stated on 2 seperate occasions... Paul Gregg, and secondly it was the reason for wyness walking. So.... How has kenwright paid him back... If at all??? Now if he hasn't is the club paying for itself??? Is that where the operating costs are going??? I dunno but nothing would surprised me. duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) So if Green was lending money to Gregg where's the lie? I've just bought a motorbike with borrowed money, doesn't mean the lender owns the bike. I do (as well as the debt). Green wasn't lending money to Gregg. What makis is saying is the proof green is involved is that when Paul and wife Gregg were bought out someone asked who bought them out and he said sir Philip green. He is saying if green isn't the one pulling the strings, why would Gregg lie? And if he did lie why pull that name out? Edited September 2, 2015 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I just wonder how and if he's paid the £20m back to green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I just wonder how and if he's paid the £20m back to green. Same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Same here or has he been doing a glazers and using the club to buy itself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Green wasn't lending money to Gregg. What makis is saying is the proof green is involved is that when Paul and wife Gregg were bought out someone asked who bought them out and he said sir Philip green. He is saying if green isn't the one pulling the strings, why would Gregg lie? And if he did lie why pull that name out? Exactly. Gregg had money to pay for his share of TBH, Kenwright didn't. Later he didn't have the money to buy out Gregg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Kenweight borrowed from Green to buy his shares. I don't get why Earl would though, he's worth plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 The question is how has he paid him back... Basically kenwright did one of these "I'll buy a club but I have no money" he's barely worth now what it would have cost him to buy the club then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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