Cornish Steve Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Has anyone ever read the business book "From Good to Great"? It pretty much explains the difference this year. Just one of the principles is to establish a BHAG - a Big Hairy Audacious Goal. Roberto did this at his first press conference - claiming that we could reach the Champions League. He's applying "From Good to Great" principles to a football team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebittight Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Me neither, the current squad(that is performing so well) is made up of players he mostly signed, and we have always had a solid back four under him, But i do think some of the praise is a bit OTT, that's all. Me neither, the current squad(that is performing so well) is made up of players he mostly signed, and we have always had a solid back four under him, But i do think some of the praise is a bit OTT, that's all.Solid back four but only Baines overlapped with any menace. His persistence with Hibbert at full back and using Coleman as a project right winger was particularly painful for me so you can imagine how much better I feel currently. Also youth got a chance under Moyes when there were injuries. It gets a proper chance nowadays on merit. Edited January 6, 2014 by weebittight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 You would think that we never achieved similar but better under Joe Royle, for some reason his achievements are erased because Moyes finished best of the midtable teams repeatedly... For that he expected us to accept as a maximum. Thankfully myself and more than a few others demand more from an Everton manager, survival at times of adversity is an achievement, mediocrity when capable of much more is a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) You would think that we never achieved similar but better under Joe Royle, for some reason his achievements are erased because Moyes finished best of the midtable teams repeatedly... For that he expected us to accept as a maximum. Thankfully myself and more than a few others demand more from an Everton manager, survival at times of adversity is an achievement, mediocrity when capable of much more is a failure. achievements, plural? Maybe I'm too young to remember anything but the cup win (don't mean to belittle it, it's the only silverware I've witnessed and was old enough to remember) I'm not saying I accept mediocrity either, I'm grateful because of where we were (below mediocrity) and were we went to (European regulars), under Moyes guidance. It was a necessary step, and whether he was paid to do because it was his job is irrelevant - he changed us for the best which was never guaranteed. But some people just want to hate and refuse to accept truths, because it's inconvenient to their arguments. Before other truths are thrown at me (massive wages, "brainwashing", etc) I recognize them and agree that Moyes in the latter years should've delivered more. But I'll be grateful for the bits before and looking forward to going further with Martinez Edited January 6, 2014 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm grateful for moyes bringing us on just like I'm grateful for Walter smith who kept us in the league aswell. But the one year he got us into the champs league pails to the dissapointments we had with regards to even last year as an example. Going well in the league, threatening the "top four" go to Sunderland who were awful get beat one nil and didn't have a shot on goal. That summed up moyes reign and I'm not even mentioning semi finals/finals when we sat back and just let teams beat us. Oh and the irony of that Sunderland game? He'd already agreed to take over at united. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm grateful for moyes bringing us on just like I'm grateful for Walter smith who kept us in the league aswell. But the one year he got us into the champs league pails to the dissapointments we had with regards to even last year as an example. Going well in the league, threatening the "top four" go to Sunderland who were awful get beat one nil and didn't have a shot on goal. That summed up moyes reign and I'm not even mentioning semi finals/finals when we sat back and just let teams beat us. Oh and the irony of that Sunderland game? He'd already agreed to take over at united.didnt we just lose 1-0 to Sunderland too? Performance comes second to the result. And we qualified for the Europa League several times too, and you can't ignore the semi finals and the final because it's inconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Royle took us from facing relegation to winning the fa cup, going into Europe and finishing 6th next season... He was on brink of big things before he fell out with the board. Point is, Moyes did a good thing 11 years ago and dined out on it for too long. Why when he moved on in such bad taste does he deserve gratitude?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Royle took us from facing relegation to winning the fa cup, going into Europe and finishing 6th next season... He was on brink of big things before he fell out with the board. Point is, Moyes did a good thing 11 years ago and dined out on it for too long. Why when he moved on in such bad taste does he deserve gratitude?! fair enough, don't remember that. Apologies if I got a bit rude, had stubbed my toe and was not in the greatest moods anyway! I'm not saying be grateful for his whole tenure, just bit grateful for the parts he deserves it. Yes, he's been a prick since he left, and for a year or so before that, but I'd rather concentrate on the good he did and the good Martinez is doing than be bitter, petty and angry about the minority of his bad times.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Are we back on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Are we back on this? Hence my apology before for posting the article. It's all my fault . Peter H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 achievements, plural? Maybe I'm too young to remember anything but the cup win (don't mean to belittle it, it's the only silverware I've witnessed and was old enough to remember) I'm not saying I accept mediocrity either, I'm grateful because of where we were (below mediocrity) and were we went to (European regulars), under Moyes guidance. It was a necessary step, and whether he was paid to do because it was his job is irrelevant - he changed us for the best which was never guaranteed. But some people just want to hate and refuse to accept truths, because it's inconvenient to their arguments. Before other truths are thrown at me (massive wages, "brainwashing", etc) I recognize them and agree that Moyes in the latter years should've delivered more. But I'll be grateful for the bits before and looking forward to going further with Martinez I would take issue with just one word: "better", not "best". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I would take issue with just one word: "better", not "best".good spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Solid back four but only Baines overlapped with any menace. His persistence with Hibbert at full back and using Coleman as a project right winger was particularly painful for me so you can imagine how much better I feel currently. Also youth got a chance under Moyes when there were injuries. It gets a proper chance nowadays on merit. Did you miss the entire 2012/13 season? marcopaulo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 As it would appear Manchester United may soon discard of Moyes' services and terminate his employment (I hope he remains in charge for a good many years yet, if only for comedic effect) you have to wonder here his next port of call may be. at no point since Moyes departed have I ever wished for the scots return. Looking good under Martinez, despite that early league cup elimination, and in good position for a cup run and having a realistic chance of european places. Yes the latter was there with Moyes, but this time this club has such opportunity with other objectives. Wouldn't go as far to say Moyes was a bad as Walker or Smith, but in the end, it got to the point where enough was enough and the club was only going down a blind alley. At least now with the new name, there's some level of tangible belief ahead that the club can once again establish itself as a trophy winning side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 didnt we just lose 1-0 to Sunderland too? Performance comes second to the result. And we qualified for the Europa League several times too, and you can't ignore the semi finals and the final because it's inconvenient. I just don't get your arguement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hence my apology before for posting the article. It's all my fault . You really should have known better by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Royle took us from facing relegation to winning the fa cup, going into Europe and finishing 6th next season... He was on brink of big things before he fell out with the board. Said somewhere before that 95-96 was and still is my favourite season as an Evertonain - we were brilliant... favourite player - Joe Parkinson. We missed out on Europe to Arsenal on the final day, remember listening for the scores on 5 live after seeing us beat Villa in the brand spanking new Park End! Royle had Torre Andre Flo lined up for £1m (ish) to play alongside Big Dunc (and another Norwegian bloke too) - Johnson blocked this, Royle was soon gone. Sure he had a deal for Dublin lined up previously too - £1m again! I have shown a lot of gratitude to the Moyes era but what I will say is this season is the first, playing wise, which is matching up to that 95-96 season. Finishing 4th, euro runs and Wembley trips were all brilliant under Moyes but that 95-96 season still stands out for style and enjoyment of watching EFC. Let's judge Martinez over the season though... he'd be the first to admit that he hasn't achieved anything yet. Moyes left him a fantastic platform on which Roberto is building on with style - he's 20 odd games into a 5 year plan! Finally, James McCarthy reminds me so much of Joe Parkinson - Joe Parkinson could have gone so much further, no joke for people who didn't have the pleasure to watch him but he was in the Roy Keane bracket and on the brink of a first England cap for his career to be cruelly cut short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Joe the pie man was ace, and yes up till now, 95-96 was the best post title winning football we've seen. I'm just so sorry for the sub 23 year olds who cant remember and appreciate that 7-8th is good enough for Everton and that percentage football is acceptable to achieve this. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 loved joe parkinson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 loved joe parkinson! Who didn't? But have to say I was a John Ebbrell man myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Who didn't? But have to say I was a John Ebbrell man myself. Me too I actually had a few non alcoholic pints with him and Watson in the away end at the Nuremberg game away in 2007 top blokes both of them. Loved it when he threw those crunching tackles, shit football or not I have very fond memories of the dark 90's. Just spotted my error there I was talking about Parkinson! Edited January 7, 2014 by GoldfishMemory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm going to regret this, but - http://stdomingos.com/2014/01/06/i-was-conned-by-david-moyes/? Peter H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm going to regret this, but - http://stdomingos.com/2014/01/06/i-was-conned-by-david-moyes/? Lights the blue touch paper and stands well back . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebittight Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Did you miss the entire 2012/13 season? No. My point is that Coleman was so obviously an attacking full back and not a midfielder. Moyes chose Hibbert and then Neville there for far too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/08/david-moyes-left-everton-at-the-right-time-but-lets-not-re-write-history-4253852/? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I’m sure the Scot will concede much of it was of his own making. Says it all really. (about fan backlash). I would have heralded him every time he came back to Goodison but his behavior since leaving has been pitiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/08/david-moyes-left-everton-at-the-right-time-but-lets-not-re-write-history-4253852/? Have a look at some of the previous articles written by Royle blue Mersey "Everton should look at £50m bid for Barkley" "we aren't any better just more lucky".... Some of them just contradictory as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Fickle I think they call it. Unfortunately, I find myself in that category, just not to the extent of most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 When I was deciding which school to attend, the deputy head wanted me to join his school because I'm pretty tall/was pretty well built for my age and he felt I'd enjoy rugby, when I told him I was more interested in football, he told me pupils also become footballers, the latest being John Ebbrell. I was sold on the school from that moment on. On the Metro article, I read something similar in the Daily Mail yesterday. To sum up, it said David Moyes did well at Everton but ultimately his defensive attitude held the club back, now Martinez has come along and changed mentality and Everton are reaping the benefits. That in itself, isn't too bad but the article went on and on and seemed intent on reducing credibility with fans. There were times when Moyes spoke and I felt it got taken out of context by those looking to to vilify him. I like Martinez but don't want to get carried away, we've had just over half a season with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 When I was deciding which school to attend, the deputy head wanted me to join his school because I'm pretty tall/was pretty well built for my age and he felt I'd enjoy rugby, when I told him I was more interested in football, he told me pupils also become footballers, the latest being John Ebbrell. I was sold on the school from that moment on. On the Metro article, I read something similar in the Daily Mail yesterday. To sum up, it said David Moyes did well at Everton but ultimately his defensive attitude held the club back, now Martinez has come along and changed mentality and Everton are reaping the benefits. That in itself, isn't too bad but the article went on and on and seemed intent on reducing credibility with fans. There were times when Moyes spoke and I felt it got taken out of context by those looking to to vilify him. I like Martinez but don't want to get carried away, we've had just over half a season with him. Wirral Grammar boy eh! John Ebbrell is probably the only Everton player I've met who recognises me and stops to chat. A proper nice bloke. He was so good as a young lad, played for a youth team I started out for... Eastham blades. His goalscoring record was phenomenal, off he went to lilleshall. He was on the trajectory to be an England regular, I think if managed differently he could have been a more complete box to box midfielder rather than a defensive mid. Back to Moyes, here's sahas view.http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-saha-man-united-fans-should-get-used-moyes-defensive-tactics-14010874695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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