Matt Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Just using Barkley alone is a yardstick in measuring Moyes youth development policy. 2 years ago he was man of the match in a game against QPR - around the same time Tim Cahill stated that Ross was the most talented youngster he had seen... a few weeks later he had a bit of a spell against Blackburn where he lost his head and looked scared. What did Davie do? Subbed him immediately. I said at the time it was one of the worst things you could do, you fall off a bike you get back on. You learn that its a blip and you put things right. No not our Davie.... Barkley since that game had been shipped out - shown his class, brought back - not used and not developed. He then proved what he has against Arsenal, ironically Moyes never trusted him against poorer opponnents but gave him game time against the best??? Moving on Duffy... Proved he has got premiership class with a few games where he "had" to be played, 8/10 performances and a stellar performance against Spurs. When he didn't need to be played - he wasn't. Moyes even choosing Hibbert as a centre half instead. Strange. Moyes can take plaudits for being a good club manager, dilligent, hardworking, authoritive, a canny transfer operator but pleeeeaaaassseee drop this "Moyes develops youth" its absolute nonsense. Moyes has "had" to use youth at times, he doesn't choose to develop youth. We have a tremendous academy (yes he can take credit for overseeing that) but in terms of ensuring they make it at highest level - no he can't. Callum Mcmanaman anyone? Youre using the same tactic as Avin here Haf - 1 game referenced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Youre using the same tactic as Avin here Haf - 1 game referenced. Yep, that being the point, if he used him more I would have more examples and therefore my argument will be contradicted. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droobie Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Methinks this thread should be moved to other football - doesn't belong in the Everton section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 I response to the original post, I wouldn't worry too much about Moyes and his transfer buys. There is a balance between what Moyes could acheive and what he could afford. Moyes brought a player like Coleman across from Ireland, for £60,000. He had a breakthrough season, then a difficult second season, but last year went on to be our first choice right back for almost the entire season. However, what people forget about this transfer is that when we bought Coleman, we already had Neville and Hibbert, and I'm pretty sure another RB (possibly?). There wasn't a furor because the cost was so low, even still people made the point of why are we buying a right back when other positions need cover? And therein lies the key to Moyes. I think this is why he has been chosen as the long term replacement, he'll buy what he needs but he'll also look a few seasons down the line. Sticking with above, we've now lost Neville to retirement and I doubt Hibbert is going to feature all that much from here on out. Coleman is now deputised by Stones, a player who cost us between 1-2 mil in January. Already it signifies that Coleman has gone from being a £60,000 potential to an actual £4-5mil player. Should he continue in that form this season, he'll probably be worth closer to 10 or 12 this time next year. Moyes will look at the squad as a whole, take it all in, and way up what he needs. It makes me laugh that Man U fans think you're lacking in central midfield. Granted Scholes has gone, but given the players able to play in your central midfield are: Giggs, Anderson, Carrick, Cleverley, Kagawa, Rooney, Jones and not forgetting Fletcher. Fletcher is a player we were linked with before he Man U snapped him up, an argument for the Dithering Dave fan base to add to their already well stoked fire. He does dither, but he's realistic. You won the league with 13 points to spare last season, I don't think you need a central midfielder, you just want one. Trust in Moyes and he'll get you what you need. What you want will take longer. Avinalaff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Good Lord, you're a tense one aren't you! Chill out my lickle sunbeam. It was tongue in cheek. They may be trillionaires but their trillions are not in football so Manchester City are not the richest football club in the world. If this is a game of right and wrong instead of a meaningless internet forum on a beautiful summer day you'll find I'm right, on this one, and you're more than an 'ickle bit wrong. Cake, I didn't intend to appear shirty lol. Sometimes I can't be arsed using smileys, but I think richest, or 55th richest, the point is made. Moyes made good use of the kids who were good enough. Whether they were good enough was his decision to make. We can hardly criticise a guy for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 If only the coach and or coaching staff can be right in their assessment of young players Avinalaff then they can never be wrong unless they admit it which they will never do ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 If only the coach and or coaching staff can be right in their assessment of young players Avinalaff then they can never be wrong unless they admit it which they will never do ...... Sideliner, I think we differ in opinion a lot, so let's take this opportunity to start afresh mate. My point is that none of us actually watch the young lads unless we particularly follow their games, and even then, we only see a very small amount in which to form opinion. We see their names mentioned, and when our senior lads are faulting, we wonder why the kids don't get played. I'm personally inclined to think a manager knows better than me about what he needs when it comes to using young players, and probably knows better than most, so presuming he isn't deliberately playing poor players and deliberately leaving out good ones, we have to presume that the guys who don't get played are not up to the job. I don't know any manager who wouldn't want to field his strongest team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 You did see the league cup game at Elland Road last season then. I know Moyes is a favorite of yours and can do no wrong, but he's hardly gone into every fixture with his best XI at his disposal or fielded his most robust line up. You know the scenario, get to play an opposition we should be beating, leave out significant players, play a weakened side, lo and behold a fucking upset ensues. But then that applies to all managers at one time or another, they get a bit over confident, don't treat oppositions with the respect they deserve, become complacent, and suffer for their actions as a direct result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 You did see the league cup game at Elland Road last season then. I know Moyes is a favorite of yours and can do no wrong, but he's hardly gone into every fixture with his best XI at his disposal or fielded his most robust line up. You know the scenario, get to play an opposition we should be beating, leave out significant players, play a weakened side, lo and behold a fucking upset ensues. But then that applies to all managers at one time or another, they get a bit over confident, don't treat oppositions with the respect they deserve, become complacent, and suffer for their actions as a direct result. I'll presume you are addressing myself, but try and use the quote facility. That is what it's for. That way I can see you've quoted me and run for the hills. So, don't play them = bad Moyes. Do play them = bad Moyes. :dont know: We have a small squad, and if we want lads to sit as backup, we have to give them a run out occasionally. A cup game is an opportunity to do this. We can't put extra games on regular players without risk. The team wasn't exactly crap either: 01 Mucha 05 Heitinga Booked 15 Distin 23 Coleman 08 Oviedo Booked 25 Fellaini Booked 30 Francisco Junior (Neville - 46' ) 11 Mirallas 14 Naismith (Jelavic - 65' ) 19 Gueye (Pienaar - 46' ) 28 Anichebe Substitutes24 Howard 06 Jagielka 18 Neville 34 Duffy 22 Pienaar 07 Jelavic 27 Vellios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I see your point Avinalaff but I just disagree with it - in some instances you are 100% correct but there may be cases where youngsters were overprotected - nothing ventured nothing gained - I just feel players like Oviedo , Velios , Barkley , Duffy , Junior and Gueye should have been given more gametime - not necessarily starting but at least getting regular subs when the situation allowed it - instead of forcing Neville and Naismith down our throats - no hard feelings mate - just a difference in opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Fair play lads, got to say in all this I think we are going to see a manager giving youth a proper go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Fair play lads, got to say in all this I think we are going to see a manager giving youth a proper go We could call him 'father' Martinez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Cake, I didn't intend to appear shirty lol. Sometimes I can't be arsed using smileys, but I think richest, or 55th richest, the point is made. Moyes made good use of the kids who were good enough. Whether they were good enough was his decision to make. We can hardly criticise a guy for that. I don't recall criticising Moyes but never mind I'm not after a fight and In Martinez We Must Trust, now. Looking forward to it, this season, seeing how United do as well - I neither want him to succeed nor fail there because he's nothing to do with us any longer, although if the gongs remain distributed between the recent regular top 4 I would sooner Utd win it than Chelsea, City, Arsenal. If he does live up to any ditherer tag he may have, the powers that be at Utd will knock it out of him before too long or he'll be on his way - simple as that, I think. Sibdane and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I don't recall criticising Moyes but never mind I'm not after a fight and In Martinez We Must Trust, now. Looking forward to it, this season, seeing how United do as well - I neither want him to succeed nor fail there because he's nothing to do with us any longer, although if the gongs remain distributed between the recent regular top 4 I would sooner Utd win it than Chelsea, City, Arsenal. If he does live up to any ditherer tag he may have, the powers that be at Utd will knock it out of him before too long or he'll be on his way - simple as that, I think. You best not be Cake, or do I have to remind you I'm the hardest poster on the Internet? Anything you write, I'll use my spell checker and online thesaurus to exterminate any hope you had of victory. :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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