Romey 1878 Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I'm impressed you managed to write a sentence about him which contained the word "passing" without a derogatory adjective in front of it. I'm calmer now I'm not at the game. During it I thought I was going to blow a blood vessel tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I'm calmer now I'm not at the game. During it I thought I was going to blow a blood vessel tbh. He's still got one more year on his contract. We need better options!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 He's still got one more year on his contract. We need better options!!! Don't remind me! If he gets a contract extension God help me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Don't remind me! If he gets a contract extension God help me. I miss big Vic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) I miss big Vic! I said at the time I'd have rather have kept him and I was nowhere near being a fan of Vic, so that says it all. Edited April 18, 2015 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 He seems to get into good positions..and then not really test the keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I said at the time I'd have rather have kept him and I was nowhere near being a fan of Vic, so that says it all. I said the same and was danced all over for it. Kone is fucking garbage and nowhere near good enough for what we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 My initial impression was that he was shite again today, but Im waiting for Haf to tell me what I saw because he may well of had a blinder and I just didn't notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethinO Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Just doesn't do much does he? Keeps the ball pretty well but other than that he offers pretty much nothing. Never looks a goalscoring threat and at 31, it's time to cash in. Same can be said for about 6/7 players out of our current squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 My initial impression was that he was shite again today, but Im waiting for Haf to tell me what I saw because he may well of had a blinder and I just didn't notice You saw just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Just doesn't do much does he? Keeps the ball pretty well but other than that he offers pretty much nothing. Never looks a goalscoring threat and at 31, it's time to cash in. Same can be said for about 6/7 players out of our current squad. I said at the beginning of the season, he is all huff and puff and no end product and I stand by it. There is nothing to his game, he is decent (not great) at holding the ball up. He offers virtually zero threat in front of goal, he never gets in good positions in the box and always shoots right down the keepers throat. Championship striker at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethinO Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I said at the beginning of the season, he is all huff and puff and no end product and I stand by it. There is nothing to his game, he is decent (not great) at holding the ball up. He offers virtually zero threat in front of goal, he never gets in good positions in the box and always shoots right down the keepers throat. Championship striker at best. I agree that he's not a premiership striker and we need to get rid. I wanted him to prove me wrong after his injury and I think because of that we've been quite patient with him as fans but it's quite obvious now that after a good run in the team,he's not good enough. What worries me is that Martinez won't notice this and he'll still be here next season. I also think the likes of McGeady and Howard will still be here next season when it's obvious they aren't good enough/passed their best. This is a huge summer for Martinez and he needs to be ruthless in telling quite a few of them that they have no future here. Howard, Alcaraz, Distin, Hibbert, Pienaar, Kone, McGeady, Atsu, McAleny all need flogging and replaced with younger, better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I agree that he's not a premiership striker and we need to get rid. I wanted him to prove me wrong after his injury and I think because of that we've been quite patient with him as fans but it's quite obvious now that after a good run in the team,he's not good enough. What worries me is that Martinez won't notice this and he'll still be here next season. I also think the likes of McGeady and Howard will still be here next season when it's obvious they aren't good enough/passed their best. This is a huge summer for Martinez and he needs to be ruthless in telling quite a few of them that they have no future here. Howard, Alcaraz, Distin, Hibbert, Pienaar, Kone, McGeady, Atsu, McAleny all need flogging and replaced with younger, better players. Most of his signings worry me tbh and they are all new so there is no way he's getting shut of any of them any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 My initial impression was that he was shite again today, but Im waiting for Haf to tell me what I saw because he may well of had a blinder and I just didn't notice Yeah! Get in he's shite!!! It's great when the pre determined bargain basement boo boy that no one really want turns out to be the shite player they always wanted them to be. The poor fucker was on a hiding to nothing and anything half decent he did was begrudgingly acknowledged by some as some sort of fluke. Embarrassing really. You would think he was a club record signing the way that some expect him to perform. But hey, someone has to be the boo boy and if mcgeady isn't playing then it's gotta be kone, naismith was just lucky enough to have the mental strength to get through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilowood Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Yeah! Get in he's shite!!! It's great when the pre determined bargain basement boo boy that no one really want turns out to be the shite player they always wanted them to be. The poor fucker was on a hiding to nothing and anything half decent he did was begrudgingly acknowledged by some as some sort of fluke. Embarrassing really. You would think he was a club record signing the way that some expect him to perform. But hey, someone has to be the boo boy and if mcgeady isn't playing then it's gotta be kone, naismith was just lucky enough to have the mental strength to get through it. He cost 6m and has scored 1 goal in 2 years, is riddled with injuries, not a record signing but 6m we could not afford to waste RM made the mistake of poaching what he yhought was the best players from a relagted side HE TOOK DOWN. Hes cleary not of the standard needed but keeps other players out the team because RM is forcing it and hopes he comes good to justifey his mistake he will never admit. some of RM's comments on the players and team performance are just .......well wow ..bewildering Why does he persist with only 1 natural winger and a mdifielder playing out wide on the other side. With respect Kone you are a footballer but not of the class Everton require. oh bythe way POOR FUCKER, this guy earns a massive wage HAS RM decided the season is over and we play the fringe players so he can justify buying them ? RM this me thinks is your final season to prove....do or die... but please stop this slow, reverse play , saftey football this is not continental football this is the Premier league not italy......a different beast!!!! Edited April 19, 2015 by Wilowood Blue 250 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yeah! Get in he's shite!!! It's great when the pre determined bargain basement boo boy that no one really want turns out to be the shite player they always wanted them to be. The poor fucker was on a hiding to nothing and anything half decent he did was begrudgingly acknowledged by some as some sort of fluke. Embarrassing really. You would think he was a club record signing the way that some expect him to perform. But hey, someone has to be the boo boy and if mcgeady isn't playing then it's gotta be kone, naismith was just lucky enough to have the mental strength to get through it. Firstly I have never booed him and I am never likely to. I would love it to work out for him here, because God knows we could do with another decent forward at the club. But the fact of the matter is he has been piss poor I expect a striker to score goals and for a £6m outlay I don't think that's too much to ask for. So 1 goal in 2 years isn't good enough . I have said before that I hope it's just a confidence thing and that he comes back stronger next season after a good preseason but I honestly can't see it When Jelavic was going through his lean spell he was still getting in goal scoring positions it just wouldn't go in for him. With Kone he just doesn't look like he could score in a month of Sunday's It's embarrassing for you that you criticise people for getting on Kone's back given the way you constantly snipe at Lukaku , not to mention the hypocrisy Matt, Romey 1878, Blue 250 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Firstly I have never booed him and I am never likely to. I would love it to work out for him here, because God knows we could do with another decent forward at the club. But the fact of the matter is he has been piss poor I expect a striker to score goals and for a £6m outlay I don't think that's too much to ask for. So 1 goal in 2 years isn't good enough . I have said before that I hope it's just a confidence thing and that he comes back stronger next season after a good preseason but I honestly can't see it When Jelavic was going through his lean spell he was still getting in goal scoring positions it just wouldn't go in for him. With Kone he just doesn't look like he could score in a month of Sunday's It's embarrassing for you that you criticise people for getting on Kone's back given the way you constantly snipe at Lukaku , not to mention the hypocrisy For the 1254th time, my criticism of lukaku is BALANCED. People wax lyrical about him when in reality at this moment he is a good finisher with a lot of improvement required. It's typical of forum mentality that the a glory name like Rom is over egged with fans getting giddy at the thought of 20+ premier goals a season. 1 in 2 games etc. The reality ain't the same but hey I'll be the bad guy for pointing it out. Kone was slated before he kicked a ball, simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 For the 1254th time, my criticism of lukaku is BALANCED. People wax lyrical about him when in reality at this moment he is a good finisher with a lot of improvement required. It's typical of forum mentality that the a glory name like Rom is over egged with fans getting giddy at the thought of 20+ premier goals a season. 1 in 2 games etc. The reality ain't the same but hey I'll be the bad guy for pointing it out. Kone was slated before he kicked a ball, simple as that. Haf get over you are the only person on the planet that believes your criticism of Lukaku is balanced Most people were against the idea of paying £6M for a very average , ageing , injury prone forward and those fears appear to be perfectly vindicated at the moment, and the point still stands its hypocritical of you to have a go at anybody for criticising an Everton player Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 When fears are justified by facts, that's when people lose faith. Unfortunately for Kone, he has done nothing to suppress those fears and in the process but the nail into his own coffin. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 For the 1254th time, my criticism of lukaku is BALANCED. Where as criticism of Kone by everyone else is totaly UNBALANCED ! Your love of Kone simply sprung from your hate of Lukaku. Fucking grow up ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Haf get over you are the only person on the planet that believes your criticism of Lukaku is balanced Most people were against the idea of paying £6M for a very average , ageing , injury prone forward and those fears appear to be perfectly vindicated at the moment, and the point still stands its hypocritical of you to have a go at anybody for criticising an Everton player Oh FFS Dunc, for a period it seems we had an army of fans quite adept at creating JPEGS on Photoshop with Rom celebrating a goal with dreadlocks flowing and ridiculously flawed stats putting his ahead of aguero, Rooney, neymar, ronaldo and messi. I had red shite fans taking the piss out of them. In short we had grown men behaving like giddy teenagers over a player who despite showing good ability in the box looked like a championship player in all other facets of the game. Ahh but onto Kone, before he kicked a ball he like McCarthy was from Wigan and therefore not good enough and overpriced. It's ok for us to get £6m for a very unreliable, temperamental player like Anichebe but they had no right to charge £6m for a player who scored 13 prem goals for a relegated team?! Rom has supposedly had a solid season but he has 8 premier league goals. Let's get some perspective on this, Rom is not as good as many wish he is (yet), and Kone is not as bad as many think their premature judgement think warrants their "I told you so" stance. Kone reminds me of Marcus Bent, not the best player by a long stretch, good athlete who can physically impose himself on defences but needs confidence and a run of games. Finishing for him is "hitting it at goal" rather than picking a spot. Some strikers get a good return doing that when their confidence is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Oh FFS Dunc, for a period it seems we had an army of fans quite adept at creating JPEGS on Photoshop with Rom celebrating a goal with dreadlocks flowing and ridiculously flawed stats putting his ahead of aguero, Rooney, neymar, ronaldo and messi. I had red shite fans taking the piss out of them. In short we had grown men behaving like giddy teenagers over a player who despite showing good ability in the box looked like a championship player in all other facets of the game. Ahh but onto Kone, before he kicked a ball he like McCarthy was from Wigan and therefore not good enough and overpriced. It's ok for us to get £6m for a very unreliable, temperamental player like Anichebe but they had no right to charge £6m for a player who scored 13 prem goals for a relegated team?! Rom has supposedly had a solid season but he has 8 premier league goals. Let's get some perspective on this, Rom is not as good as many wish he is (yet), and Kone is not as bad as many think their premature judgement think warrants their "I told you so" stance. Kone reminds me of Marcus Bent, not the best player by a long stretch, good athlete who can physically impose himself on defences but needs confidence and a run of games. Finishing for him is "hitting it at goal" rather than picking a spot. Some strikers get a good return doing that when their confidence is up. Marcus Bent was twice the player that Kone is......things aren't going your way, you are wrong ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Where as criticism of Kone by everyone else is totaly UNBALANCED ! Your love of Kone simply sprung from your hate of Lukaku. Fucking grow up ! Thank fuck I had swallowed my cornflakes when I read that one... "Grow up" hilarious. Any chance of an encore whilst I'm sipping my coffee. Hate lukaku? No. Far from it. Exasperated by the ridiculous blinkered critique of his performances and current attributes? Yes. Irritated by his and Martinez soundbites that try and convince you that he is the next George Weah??? Too right. But hey, why criticise lukaku when we've got a perfectly good patsy in Kone. He fits the bill after all:- Stupid hair Bad injuries Missed an easy chance or two early in his Everton career No one really wanted him. Yeah you just carry on talking to the press and alternating the hot and cold switch Rom. We'll just slag off Kone. Funny isn't it... Look across the park. Ballotelli, sterling and sturridge. Ballotelli gets ridiculous shit thrown at him, the scapegoat in waiting, the focus of all anger because he isn't Suarez. Yet sturridge and sterling behave like sulky arrogant pricks and the fans are desperate to please them. Funny old game isn't it when you look at fan psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Marcus Bent was twice the player that Kone is......things aren't going your way, you are wrong ! 205 premier league games and 40 goals at a ratio of over 1 in 5 games says you are talking shit. Bent never scored more than 9 prem goals in a season. He played 37 games for us in a good season and scored 7 goals.... But I'm not gonna say that makes him a shite player because I appreciated what he gave us off the ball and in and around the box. Try looking at the game that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Haf... criticism of Kone is not criticism of you (unless you of course have some personal link to him - which I'm sure you would have told us about). I would have had him here for the price Wigan paid at that time - it was a 'why didn't we get him?' having seen him bang a few in and tear us apart. I was happy/dubious when we signed him - it seemed steep for his age/pedigree. Many could/can see his qualities but he wasn't an exciting signing. He has been so unlucky as he missed a few sitters vs Stevenage and West Brom (I think?) and then obviously got that injury. He's then come back into a under performing team after a very lengthy injury. Overall his signing has been a very poor bit of business - there's not a stat in the world that can prove that otherwise. Should fans be optimistic that he'll come good? I personally don't hold much hope. Lukaku on the other hand has scored goals, he's young, yes he's very raw but he is what we've been missing for many years - the big 'number 9'. Us fans need this hero to worship and yes he deserves his share of criticism - every player does this season! We paid well over the odds for him but we could get that back this summer should we need to sell - I hope we don't as he will get better and better especially if we can rediscover the form of last season. There's nothing personal here just the fact that we all want the best for our club - Lukaku's filled us with optimism and earned praise/defense, Kone has given us very little (through no fault of his own). Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 205 premier league games and 40 goals at a ratio of over 1 in 5 games says you are talking shit. Bent never scored more than 9 prem goals in a season. He played 37 games for us in a good season and scored 7 goals.... But I'm not gonna say that makes him a shite player because I appreciated what he gave us off the ball and in and around the box. Try looking at the game that way. We know you live in a world of stats, but hey as you've already said, stats are 'wishy washy' (your words) at best ! There isn't an Everton fan on here who wouldn't want Kone to score a hat-trick on his next outing, but I challange any new or existing member to read or re-read 'your' Lukaku thread without getting the impression that you would rather Everton win 1-0 (any goals scorer) than Everton win 3-0 with a Lukaku hat-trick, your hate was that apparent. Just saying what I see. Talk all you want about your cornflakes and coffee !! doesn't change a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 We know you live in a world of stats, but hey as you've already said, stats are 'wishy washy' (your words) at best ! There isn't an Everton fan on here who wouldn't want Kone to score a hat-trick on his next outing, but I challange any new or existing member to read or re-read 'your' Lukaku thread without getting the impression that you would rather Everton win 1-0 (any goals scorer) than Everton win 3-0 with a Lukaku hat-trick, your hate was that apparent. Just saying what I see. Talk all you want about your cornflakes and coffee !! doesn't change a thing. I take offense to the very fact you think I would sooner see us win 1-0 rather than a lukaku hat trick victory. I'd sooner see you score a hat trick and us win 3-0 than a 1-0 victory. Your statement in itself shows how small minded you are and not me. I support Everton, not the individual components. I could care less for the individuals to a large extent. 90% are multi millionaires who will not give Everton so much more as a "how did Everton get on?" When they move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) For the 1254th time, my criticism of lukaku is BALANCED. People wax lyrical about him when in reality at this moment he is a good finisher with a lot of improvement required. It's typical of forum mentality that the a glory name like Rom is over egged with fans getting giddy at the thought of 20+ premier goals a season. 1 in 2 games etc. The reality ain't the same but hey I'll be the bad guy for pointing it out. Kone was slated before he kicked a ball, simple as that. It has never, ever been balanced. I find it hilarious really considering the board backed the manager to get that marquee signing (to show "ambition"() of a proven goalscorer, one of the things you went on and on about for yearsI That happens and you take every chance to run him into the ground I give you stats which nullify or even disprove your criticism, they're dismissed as irrelevant. But then you do exactly the same thing to prove your points with other players (a lot of whom have let you down royally this season), you find a way of making your stats acceptable to the debate. The best bit is that Rom is proving you wrong, which is something we've both wanted. For the record, I know my defence and support of him wasn't all that balanced either, I just preferred to show the positives and facts You are also far from balanced when it comes to players you've vouched for, especially when they fail. Seriously. Alcaraz and Koné - try denying they've failed. I've tried defending them, and I wasn't too displeased with either when they were brought in (a freebie made sense as backup and Koné I liked and was prepared to give him a chance at a bigger club). The big difference is, I am going to admit that I got it wrong with these 2. Alcaraz has had some good games but ultimately some awful games and, unfortunately for him, in big matches. Still he was brought in as back up so he's not failed too badly. Koné, regardless of the transfer fee (because of the obvious argument I have against it) has failed to deliver anything bar a great finish at Newcastle. Lazy, slow, hold-up play is ok but his final ball or shots are woeful. My biggest hang up - he does not score. It's unfair to say 1 goal in 2 years, he was injured and he couldn't help that. But, 1 goal in 20 apps (http://www.evertonfc.com/players/a/ak/arouna-kone) is shocking. He was brought in as a striker, a striker is there to score goals. He does not and nor does he generate assists. We both have to admit we are wrong about him. I'm ready to hold up my hands and admit I got it wrong, but that I still want him to be a success. Can you admit you're wrong? Edited April 19, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Matt you are forgetting one big factor... Money. Whether you like it or not we signed Kone and Alcaraz for a sum total of what fee we paid to get lukaku on loan for one year. On top of that we have paid upto £28m for lukaku so expectations are going to be dependent on that - whether you like it or not that is the case. My debate in lukaku is BALANCED - positives = good finisher and good left foot. Negative = attitude at times, control, aerial ability. Why is that not BALANCED? Please tell me, cos as far as I see when he scores a great goal or has a game where he plays a solid all round game I will be the first to say it. Kone is and never has been anything other than a squad player. But I will tell you where he has been vital, lukaku had 2-3 shocking games, abysmal attitude and Roberto had enough. Dropped him and Kone came on against Newcastle at st James park and did more in 45 minutes in terms of linking, control, running channels than Rom had all season, since that moment Rom got his head out his arse somewhat. Matt when it comes to balance maybe you need to look at the Leicester match thread when Rom had a complete and utter shocker. I Did not put the boot in at all, I won't criticize a player for missing them as much as it's frustrating. I will criticize a player for not being able to control a simple pass or make a 10 yard pass to his team mate though. Edited April 19, 2015 by Hafnia duncanmckenzieismagic and Chach 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Matt you are forgetting one big factor... Money. Whether you like it or not we signed Kone and Alcaraz for a sum total of what fee we paid to get lukaku on loan for one year. On top of that we have paid upto £28m for lukaku so expectations are going to be dependent on that - whether you like it or not that is the case. My debate in lukaku is BALANCED - positives = good finisher and good left foot. Negative = attitude at times, control, aerial ability. Why is that not BALANCED? Please tell me, cos as far as I see when he scores a great goal or has a game where he plays a solid all round game I will be the first to say it. Kone is and never has been anything other than a squad player. But I will tell you where he has been vital, lukaku had 2-3 shocking games, abysmal attitude and Roberto had enough. Dropped him and Kone came on against Newcastle at st James park and did more in 45 minutes in terms of linking, control, running channels than Rom had all season, since that moment Rom got his head out his arse somewhat. Matt when it comes to balance maybe you need to look at the Leicester match thread when Rom had a complete and utter shocker. I Did not put the boot in at all, I won't criticize a player for missing them as much as it's frustrating. I will criticize a player for not being able to control a simple pass or make a 10 yard pass to his team mate though. I'm not forgetting it. Apparently my clear argument wasn't that clear - it doesn't have any impact on the players ability. So it is irrelevant to the debate. How many fucking times?! Yes, 6m for Koné and Alcaraz - a 1 in 20 striker, both sick notes vs a loan of player who actually scored goals, won us games... Need I continue?! You are the only person who thinks you're balanced, putting it in caps doesn't make it so. Whether thats down to you being deluded, immensely arrogant or plain stubborn I can never tell. I assume the latter because it's easier to accept. Why is your critique not balanced? I've already explained. Stats are provided, you ignore them. Then use your own to prove your theory - the hypocrisy, nevermind the unbalanced nature of the argument, is staggering. Then you try to use individual examples to counter balance a deluge of negativity and dismissal in arguments. Point and case - you are quoting 1 thread from all season to prove that because a player had a poor game, you're balanced?! Jesus Christ... You are blind in your criticism and are never going to accept any other input. I don't even know why I'm bothering. Another case and point - 10 yard pass to a team mate, Koné seems incapable of it. The amount of times he loses possession is embarrassing. But again, you made him out to be more than he is and you cannot accept that you're wrong, even when its there on the field. Instead, you're getting your little digs in at our promising striker, who is improving, who is scoring goals, who is proving you wrong. It's just sad. Edited April 19, 2015 by Matt Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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