Guest Ph3nom3non Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I'm definitely concerned about the age of our squad, that's why I am so strongly opposed to the idea of us buying Kone at all and the price is another factor. That and it showing a total lack of ambition bringing him to our team as opposed to trying to bring a younger player of real quality who could have a potential sell on value. This is bad business and I'm not overly excited at all we don't look like we are going to strengthen, which we desperately need to with every other club buying better players I feel we could seriously drop into a mid table side if we don't strengthen with quality younger players. I hope he does bring through some of the youth we already have because the age of our squad is a serious problem. We need a younger striker will potential sell on value instead of blowing what little cash we have on a 29 year old who isn't going to get much better Totally agree, 30 in november too, he said he would be looking at other players and not the wigan squad but all we are seemingly being linked to are wigan players i seen joel the keeper being linked today. there is a reason why they are in the championship there players are not good enough for the prem nevermind a team looking for a top 6 finnish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Kone and Quality just don't fit well in a sentence. There's no 'quality' about him as a player. People saying we're over reacting, I'm more conserned about the business side of the deal, it's shocking. There's little or no positive against this move. Financially, it's awful. Potentially, even worse so. This is a big dent in our transfer kitty and one that we've not had for fucking years. And now we're spunking it on an 'at best' player. Haf, you ALWAYS moan about the boards' "shortcomings"...about how often they think in the 'short term'. This deal, epitomises short term planning. You want the board to think long term and future investments, yet you're happy for hypocrisy in this instance??? Doesn't make sense mate. I don't agree with that at all Jay. He might not be the right age for us, or even the right signing, but the guy is clearly a very good player who would improve any squad. We can debate the ifs and buts all day long, but let's not start attacking the player himself, as that's just wrong. EFC-Paul and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Age of our squad is all i seem to hear, villa had the youngest team last season and nearly got relegated. We have Duffy, Oviedo, Barkley, Stones, and four others who went to the under 20s competition, give the manager the chance to bring them along and introduce them over the season, the age of our squad will soon look a lot better. Sibdane and EFC-Paul 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 anyone else concerned about the age of our squad tho, we all know we are not gonna have the money to transform a team when are players start to become to old to play at there best, distin, jags, osman, pienaar, and kone (if we get him) all going to be in there 30's and most probaly in the starting line up thats nearly half the team! I think we need to bring in some younger quality players or may struggle in the future, especiarlly if the likes of duffy, stones, and the prospects we have dont work out. In a way yes I am but in another I am not. Yes we have Distin but at the moment he doesn't look as if he is going to hang his boots any time soon plus he does seem quite quick over short spaces. We have youngsters coming up, Stones will cover RCB or RB. Coleman RB, Duffy etc. Let's see how we get on in the transfer window as well. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) On second thought, maybe you have a point. Although this is the last 3 games of 2011/2012 and the first 3 games of 2012/2013. Edited July 2, 2013 by bluenosetoffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainaar Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Age of our squad is all i seem to hear, villa had the youngest team last season and nearly got relegated. We have Duffy, Oviedo, Barkley, Stones, and four others who went to the under 20s competition, give the manager the chance to bring them along and introduce them over the season, the age of our squad will soon look a lot better. That's Paul lambert though he didn't have any senior players at villa of any quality that fit into his plans and he seems to favour younger players he did that at Norwich except at Norwich he has the advantage of playing at a lower league for them to develop and play together. When moving to villa they had sold most players who were already worth keeping years before that. He didn't quite get the right mix of experience and youth but I honestly think they will improve this season with much more solid defensive players coming to them like Okore sure they don't have experienced players and really every club needs a healthy balance of experience and young players. We kind of have a balance but we need younger players coming through now otherwise our squad will be far too old and our youngsters won't be settled in to replace some of our ageing first team members. It will take time for young players to settle and get a grip of the pressure thats expected at the top level of footbal. that's a problem Aston Villa encountered all their young players were thrown in the deep end they weren't eased into playing first team football at the top level and thus so they made mistakes which is only natural but they simply played far too many young players to experience players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 a quick look at stats he scored 1 goal in 40 for sevilla...the only club close to playing at the consistent level we are Holy Santa Claus shit. Cant believe anyone can see sense in this deal, it's just madness especially given our situation. I get people don't want us to be a selling club, but lets face facts, we are. Whoever we buy we need to look at potential sell on value, that's the situation we are in unfortunately. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Kone and Quality just don't fit well in a sentence. There's no 'quality' about him as a player. People saying we're over reacting, I'm more conserned about the business side of the deal, it's shocking. There's little or no positive against this move. Financially, it's awful. Potentially, even worse so. This is a big dent in our transfer kitty and one that we've not had for fucking years. And now we're spunking it on an 'at best' player. Haf, you ALWAYS moan about the boards' "shortcomings"...about how often they think in the 'short term'. This deal, epitomises short term planning. You want the board to think long term and future investments, yet you're happy for hypocrisy in this instance??? Doesn't make sense mate. A 29 year old forward isn't short term, yes, we may not get a sell on price but sorry for sounding positive but if we get a good centre forward for £5m who earns less than £1.5m per year in wages and gives us 3 good years its good value. I have never been against signing older players especially where up front is concerned. Don't confuse shite commercial acumen from the board with player transfer policy. The board have effectively pissed money away in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I don't agree with that at all Jay. He might not be the right age for us, or even the right signing, but the guy is clearly a very good player who would improve any squad. Based on what exactly?!? He scored a few in his first season, so did grant holt and as someone mentioned before so did Michael bloody ricketts and because WE are signing him all of a sudden he is a "proven premier league player" (not quoting you there Av). Seems like half of TT has lost the plot over this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I don't agree with that at all Jay. He might not be the right age for us, or even the right signing, but the guy is clearly a very good player who would improve any squad. We can debate the ifs and buts all day long, but let's not start attacking the player himself, as that's just wrong. Fair point. From a 'business perspective', this deals sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Next season £5m won't buy you Steven Naismith. If someone can provide a list of better players who will cost less then go for it. can I have next weeks lotto numbers please, since you can predict financial futures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Don't confuse shite commercial acumen from the board with player transfer policy. The board have effectively pissed money away in that regard. I'm not but that's EXACTLY what's happening here RE: Kone. Not a future investment. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 We all thought Gibson was a donkey, but we paid out 500,000 for a 24 year old lad, yet to hit his prime. The risk was minimal. No pressure on him...turned his playing career around. Kone won't have that time or leniency. If Kone had cost 1/2m, I don't think the reaction would be as strong but because it's costing us more than what we paid for our best players (Jags, Baines, Mirallas, Jelavic, Coleman, Pienaar, Howard, Distin) we should expect a top player. Which, lets be honest, he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 We all thought Gibson was a donkey, but we paid out 500,000 for a 24 year old lad, yet to hit his prime. The risk was minimal. No pressure on him...turned his playing career around. Kone won't have that time or leniency. If Kone had cost 1/2m, I don't think the reaction would be as strong but because it's costing us more than what we paid for our best players (Jags, Baines, Mirallas, Jelavic, Coleman, Pienaar, Howard, Distin) we should expect a top player. Which, lets be honest, he isn't. if he cost 3m I wouldnt mind but this 6,5 being touted is insane. Im trying to justify it in my head as paying Wigan 6,5m for 2 players and paying 40k in wages combined. Its the only reason my keyboard works and screen is intact... Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Comparing the bloke to Rickets jesus you may be pissed off but lay off it it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense that Kone is a far far better player! Again £5m is not bad for a player who has potentially 10/15 goals a season in him, the big point people keep mentioning is sell on yes it would be great to buy a young player with potential who we could sell on in two or three years time but find be such a player for a low fee then add to that the risk that they may flop? Just look at last season we lacked that killer instinct up front and we need a player that can come in and score goals, what if Jelavic duplicates his form from last season we would again struggle for goals and potentially drop vital points due to shite finishing as we did last season. For all we know it could be on the drip with various clauses and so on and as we have no idea of how much we actually have to spend and what else is going on in terms of transfers behind the scenes let's just see how things unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Based on what exactly?!? He scored a few in his first season, so did grant holt and as someone mentioned before so did Michael bloody ricketts and because WE are signing him all of a sudden he is a "proven premier league player" (not quoting you there Av). Seems like half of TT has lost the plot over this! Based purely on seeing him play against us, and a few highlights of other matches. Martinez said he was a blessing to work with, so obviously likes him. I think we need younger players, so he would need to be a lot less than 5m for me to like the deal, but as a player, he is very good. I think he will go to another club though, as we won't pay 5m, and some other clubs will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Comparing the bloke to Rickets jesus you may be pissed off but lay off it it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense that Kone is a far far better player! Again £5m is not bad for a player who has potentially 10/15 goals a season in him, the big point people keep mentioning is sell on yes it would be great to buy a young player with potential who we could sell on in two or three years time but find be such a player for a low fee then add to that the risk that they may flop? Just look at last season we lacked that killer instinct up front and we need a player that can come in and score goals, what if Jelavic duplicates his form from last season we would again struggle for goals and potentially drop vital points due to shite finishing as we did last season. For all we know it could be on the drip with various clauses and so on and as we have no idea of how much we actually have to spend and what else is going on in terms of transfers behind the scenes let's just see how things unfold. as Ten is rightly saying, its not good financially. But its just dawned on me, we are no longer in the same financial situation. For now at least, we are not going to be a "selling club" (always hated that phrase because every club is a selling club) so its not necessary to buy young potential in the hopes we can sell them on for 3 times the value, which would certainly have been the thinking with some of our buys. So, we can take on these 2 older players and let them either shine under a manager they know or they can flop. The financial risk of them flopping is still there, but will not have the same impact as it wouldve 3 years ago. So long as any other signings dont go in the same way, this might keep me content. 2 more additions with these 2 (depth and a marquee signing) and I'll be happier (so long as we dont lose anyone) EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 as Ten is rightly saying, its not good financially. But its just dawned on me, we are no longer in the same financial situation. For now at least, we are not going to be a "selling club" (always hated that phrase because every club is a selling club) so its not necessary to buy young potential in the hopes we can sell them on for 3 times the value, which would certainly have been the thinking with some of our buys. So, we can take on these 2 older players and let them either shine under a manager they know or they can flop. The financial risk of them flopping is still there, but will not have the same impact as it wouldve 3 years ago. So long as any other signings dont go in the same way, this might keep me content. 2 more additions with these 2 (depth and a marquee signing) and I'll be happier (so long as we dont lose anyone) Aren't we? Didnt someone mention that Elstone said at the AGM we have £4million to spend or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Based purely on seeing him play against us, and a few highlights of other matches. Seriously? C'mon Av, you have a bit more sense than that. If we are going to start judging players on what we see on MOTD then I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Seriously? C'mon Av, you have a bit more sense than that. If we are going to start judging players on what we see on MOTD then I give up. I can pretend to be an authority on the guy if you prefer. Where else would I be able to see him play mate? Stats don't always tell a true story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Aren't we? Didnt someone mention that Elstone said at the AGM we have £4million to spend or something?i didn't see any numbers quoted. If we only have 4m then this rumour can't be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Someone mentioned it a couple of pages back but I think its worth repeating. Is Kone better than Beckford? Beckford cost 4 mil, what is Kone worth? I think it would be a good signing. Would I like him to be cheaper? YES! Do I think he will score 10-15 goals next season if he plays for Everton? Its very possible, I will even bet on >10 goals. Its worth letting him have a go. Might even get us Europe next season. Thats the 5-6mil back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 He scored 15 goals for Levante, who finished sixth in Spain last season, btw. I'm guessing if we would have bought him from them in stead of from Wigan people might be more excited. EFC-Paul and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Someone mentioned it a couple of pages back but I think its worth repeating. Is Kone better than Beckford? Beckford cost 4 mil, what is Kone worth? I think it would be a good signing. Would I like him to be cheaper? YES! Do I think he will score 10-15 goals next season if he plays for Everton? Its very possible, I will even bet on >10 goals. Its worth letting him have a go. Might even get us Europe next season. Thats the 5-6mil back wasnt Beckford free, and 25 at the time? Should never have let him go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Beckford cost us nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Based on people's arguments on age it's a good job we didn't use such logic when signing Andy Gray, Beardsley, distin, paul power, Richard gough, David weir, Nigel martyn,.... Yep, all quality older signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 He's better than Marcus Bent who helped us to fourth. We're gonna win the league... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I can pretend to be an authority on the guy if you prefer. Where else would I be able to see him play mate? Stats don't always tell a true story. Fair enough if thats all you've seen of him. But to judge him as a "very good player who would improve any squad" is taking it to extreme's to say the least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Based on people's arguments on age it's a good job we didn't use such logic when signing Andy Gray, Beardsley, distin, paul power, Richard gough, David weir, Nigel martyn,.... Yep, all quality older signings. right... Who are you and what have you done with Haf? GoodisonRoad, SimonButtle and Steve_E 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesSmurfy Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 i agree that £5-6mil for a 29 year old is steep but he offers us something completely different to what we already have. yes in about 3 years we will need to look to strengthen that position again but we also have young players like McAleny coming through and if hes as good as ive heard he could easily fill that void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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