Unbiased Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 If your for it, here is a petition by the FSF http://fsf.org.uk/petitions/view/support-safe-standing If your against it, instead of giving me abuse, say why. Thanks very much if you do sign it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Why would you get abuse ? Standing was fine in it's day, but pretty uncomfortable and bad for anybody shorter than the guys in front, and was a haven for pick pockets. It's not like a concert, where folk are tapping their feet etc. When a goal went in, you often needed a suit of armour as a kid to prevent being wacked in the ear by some sweaty fat bloke, or worse, having hot Bovril fly through the air, or a cup of warm piss spill over your foot. You'd end up 4ft further forward than you started, rail or no rail. They could allow the bottom of the stands I guess, but a step backwards imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'm not really for or against standing at grounds. I personally wouldn't choose to do it but if there is a small section for those that can then I don't see a problem with it. If they wanted to rip the whole Gwladys Street up and take out its seating I'd be very much against it but if it's only a little standing space then I could live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbiased Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Here is a link for an image of a safe standing area with 'rail seats' http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/nov2011/3/5/terracing-978227561.jpg There is no possibility of flying forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It just seems like a massive step backward for me. I'm not against people who want it but I don't really see what the benefit is, surely after 20 minutes you're legs will get tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 ....surely after 20 minutes you're legs will get tired. What? I stood through countless games of football from the age of about ten; regularly froze my arse off and got soaked but never had a problem with tired legs! Youth of today....bunch of pansies. Zoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It just seems like a massive step backward for me. I'm not against people who want it but I don't really see what the benefit is, surely after 20 minutes you're legs will get tired. never stood at a concert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Yeah but that's different... I do realise that I may have been talking a bit of bollocks earlier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 never stood at a concert? I think folk need to consider the costs involved for clubs, as it's not just a case of a few tweaks, especially in the era of Health & Safety. The fans that want to stand are possibly not a majority of any stadium support, not to undermine their importance, and petitions do nothing but muddy the statistics. It's one thing rallying for support and getting signatures, but it just gives a false impression regarding true numbers, just as getting your mate to back you up on something he privately couldn't give a toss about. I think fans need to be sensible, and calculate the numbers of fans who genuinely want to stand by their own 'unpersuaded' feelings, and then see if it's worth the effort and cost to accomodate. Rallying for petitions online, and gaining signatures largely from people who don't have a legitimate interest or who possibly don't support from within the stadium, isn't the way forward. Unbiased 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I think folk need to consider the costs involved for clubs, as it's not just a case of a few tweaks, especially in the era of Health & Safety. The fans that want to stand are possibly not a majority of any stadium support, not to undermine their importance, and petitions do nothing but muddy the statistics. It's one thing rallying for support and getting signatures, but it just gives a false impression regarding true numbers, just as getting your mate to back you up on something he privately couldn't give a toss about. I think fans need to be sensible, and calculate the numbers of fans who genuinely want to stand by their own 'unpersuaded' feelings, and then see if it's worth the effort and cost to accomodate. Rallying for petitions online, and gaining signatures largely from people who don't have a legitimate interest or who possibly don't support from within the stadium, isn't the way forward. oh i'm not for it just on about zoo's point of standing for 20 mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Yeah but that's different... I do realise that I may have been talking a bit of bollocks earlier... It 'is' different, and you weren't. The debate isn't just about whether folk want to stand, or are prepared to stand, but about changes to current stadiums, and indeed laws, in order to accomodate. We've all stood at a bar too, or at a bus stop, but that doesn't justify doing it anywhere else, and is irrelevant as a 'for'. It's a spectator sport, and as such, each ticket holder has a right to be able to view the game in which they paid for, unrestricted in view, and in a safe environment. No amount of signatures will change the principles behind any decision. We live in an age of risk factor statistics and prevention. All the smokers in the country could sign to return smoking to pubs, but as long as the government make decisions in a 'what if' line of reasoning, it will never happen. The best thing for fans to do is to accept the current legislation, and try to come to terms with it as such that it becomes less of a burden. We all have preferences, and I do sympathise, but it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's a spectator sport, and as such, each ticket holder has a right to be able to view the game in which they paid for, unrestricted in view, and in a safe environment. That sounds like an argument for the type of standing that Unbiased posted a picture of. Looks completely safe, but sterile really imo, would feel like you're standing in a cattle pen. I loved standing on the terraces....but I wouldn't do it now and I wouldn't want my son to do it. If that picture is what's being proposed it's a bit of a pointless middle ground for me. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 More room than Ryanair has at least lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 More room than Ryanair has at least lol. A coffin has more room than Ryanair offer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It 'is' different, and you weren't. The debate isn't just about whether folk want to stand, or are prepared to stand, but about changes to current stadiums, and indeed laws, in order to accomodate. We've all stood at a bar too, or at a bus stop, but that doesn't justify doing it anywhere else, and is irrelevant as a 'for'. It's a spectator sport, and as such, each ticket holder has a right to be able to view the game in which they paid for, unrestricted in view, and in a safe environment. No amount of signatures will change the principles behind any decision. We live in an age of risk factor statistics and prevention. All the smokers in the country could sign to return smoking to pubs, but as long as the government make decisions in a 'what if' line of reasoning, it will never happen. The best thing for fans to do is to accept the current legislation, and try to come to terms with it as such that it becomes less of a burden. We all have preferences, and I do sympathise, but it won't happen. We are talking about standing up. I see it as a human right to stand up. How someone kicking a ball 50 yards a way makes that unsafe, whereas seconds before a fella blows a whistle makes it safe is just beyond comprehension. Plus why is it ok to stand in the exact same stadium but a Rugby match is going on? Or if a lower league game is happening? Or why is it ok for a manager to stand up? If a stadium cannot safely accomodate a fan doing an everyday action then it is not fit for purpose. What next, fans must sit in the concourse? Fans must not scratch their heads? I sit out of politeness to the person behind me, if that person is happy for me to stand then I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 We are talking about standing up. I see it as a human right to stand up. How someone kicking a ball 50 yards a way makes that unsafe, whereas seconds before a fella blows a whistle makes it safe is just beyond comprehension. Plus why is it ok to stand in the exact same stadium but a Rugby match is going on? Or if a lower league game is happening? Or why is it ok for a manager to stand up? If a stadium cannot safely accomodate a fan doing an everyday action then it is not fit for purpose. What next, fans must sit in the concourse? Fans must not scratch their heads? I sit out of politeness to the person behind me, if that person is happy for me to stand then I will. They're questions you need to ask the governing bodies Paul. If everybody was responsible and aware of the consequences of their own actions, the world would be wonderful, but not everybody is like you or I mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 PS.. Don't agree with the everyday action argument though. There has to be a clear understanding of what is ok to undertake on an individual basis, and what is ok on a mass gathering. We all run, but it wouldn't work if 40,000 people did it at the same time, etc. We can't base anything on what works for us as individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Safe standing has been quite a success in Germany. Dortmund for example, in league games they get circa 80,000 people in the door, the standing tickets are cheaper. From what I gather three people stand infront of two seats, they have to have the seats for european game. If it was £38 for a seating ticket in the park end, or £25 for a standing ticket, like on the photo,in gwladys street, would you do it? I think I would, but purely because i've never witnessed it how it used to be, and i never will, but the safe standing seems like a good option to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westfalenstadion Seating and standing capacity 80,720, all seating 65,718. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suedtribuene.jpg If anyone has seen this place for a league game, this stand bounces, the atmosphere looks imense. I'm not saying its all down to standing, but I do believe it is an option that should be allowed if a club wanted it. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 If it was £38 for a seating ticket in the park end, or £25 for a standing ticket, like on the photo,in gwladys street, would you do it? Without a doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Can you stand for that long without getting tired at your age Mike? (sorry Zoo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Can you stand for that long without getting tired at your age Mike? I'll lean on Josh if I have to . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Great parenting Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Great parenting Mike He's a big lad now...coming up to seventeen and only a couple of inches shorter than me, it's about time he started pulling his weight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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