Hafnia Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 In some games recently Moyes has been tactically spot on and this has allowed us to beat some of the top teams in the league. In many more games he has been tactically shocking and this has led to some awful performances and results and I think the blame lies well and truly with him last night. I see this morning he is blaming 'defensive lapses' for the defeat, just hold your hands up Moyes and admit you got it terribly wrong. Why make 6 changes to a winning team, none of which were forced by injury or suspension? Why drop the form players in the side? Why bring players in who haven't played for month and are physically and mentally not match fit/sharp? Why change formation to play 2 up top in a derby match, a formation we are not used to playing? Why play 2 defensive centre midfielders and 2 lumbering forwards that leave that a huge gap in between? Why so you still insist on playing people out of position? I would like to say that perhaps Moyes would learn something from last night, but if after 10 years he is still making these ridiculous tactical mistakes I aren't going to hold my breath. Heres hoping I weill be proved wrong. COYB. very nicely put, my blood is still boiling - for me it's rodders or fellaini in midfield not both, neither have any creative spark, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 was he there? the cameras only ever seem to pick him up after we score or win... it was at their shed for a start. Anyway, how the hell have you managed to turn this into a board bashing?! Last night was 1 man who let the club down, 1. The players on the pitch, no matter how shit they were, never stood a chance with the changes made and clearly being told 'save yourselves for the weekend lads'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 To be honest and this is not directed at you, but I'm getting fed up with the 'Moyes hasn't got any money' or 'Moyes is punching above his weight considering he has no money' that everyone keeps saying! Ok Moyes has done well on his budgets with the players he has bought and I applaud him for what he's done. But at the end of the day that has nothing to do with the fact that one week we can beat man city, play a tremendous 45 mins against spurs, yet play complete Bolloxs against QPR, Bolton, etc. It is soley down to tactics, formation and man management. We didn't have an injection of cash before the man city or Chelsea game did we?? No!! We played well, players where in their correct positions and the tactics where correct!!! Why can't this be done week in week out?? The players are the same each week, so why can't the results be! It's got to be down to selections! quite simply it boils down to the fact that he has been a "student" of the game for the past 10 years and can still not see things that the fans can. He has his favourites, he sets up not to concede rather than favour scoring... just tiring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) To be honest and this is not directed at you, but I'm getting fed up with the 'Moyes hasn't got any money' or 'Moyes is punching above his weight considering he has no money' that everyone keeps saying! Ok Moyes has done well on his budgets with the players he has bought and I applaud him for what he's done. But at the end of the day that has nothing to do with the fact that one week we can beat man city, play a tremendous 45 mins against spurs, yet play complete Bolloxs against QPR, Bolton, etc. It is soley down to tactics, formation and man management. We didn't have an injection of cash before the man city or Chelsea game did we?? No!! We played well, players where in their correct positions and the tactics where correct!!! Why can't this be done week in week out?? The players are the same each week, so why can't the results be! It's got to be down to selections! We know he has had money it's a non-argument, here look at this: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/managers-comparisons.html Moyes has the same net spend as Harry at spurs, and has a bigger net spend than Wenger, the money argument, should not even be brought into the conversation tbh, because it has no foundation the stat's clearly show Moyes has spent money, It all comes down to tactics and selections, and Moyes does'nt ever want to stick with the same more than a game or 2 in a row regardless of how well they are doing. Edited March 14, 2012 by theprisoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 it was at their shed for a start. Anyway, how the hell have you managed to turn this into a board bashing?! Last night was 1 man who let the club down, 1. The players on the pitch, no matter how shit they were, never stood a chance with the changes made and clearly being told 'save yourselves for the weekend lads'. ah right - is it just look at the small picture rather than big picture? we lose, bad tactics and selection = blame moyes? nope, I look at cause and effect Matt, last night Moyes was the immediate cause, the board being the ultimate cause... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) ah right - is it just look at the small picture rather than big picture? we lose, bad tactics and selection = blame moyes? nope, I look at cause and effect Matt, last night Moyes was the immediate cause, the board being the ultimate cause... you really are shameless..... yes blame Moyes, it was his fault and his alone for picking the team he did. Edited March 14, 2012 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 very nicely put, my blood is still boiling - for me it's rodders or fellaini in midfield not both, neither have any creative spark, Thanks Haf. I am going to be bold and disagree with you on Rodwell and Felliani (certainly not on the evidence of last night though). I think the 2 of them could form a good partnership if; we play 5 in midfield the 3rd centre midfielder is a creative player capable of playing in the hole (Osman or Barkley) the 2 wide midfielders are given a licence to attack, drift inside on occasion and switch flanks on occasion we play 2 attacking full backs (Baines and Coleman) we play a lone centre forward capable of holding the ball and bringing others in to play (Jelavic or Vellios) The advantage of having 2 centre mids who playing disciplined roles is it allows us to be bold and attacking in other areas. Unfortunately if we play them both in a flat midfield like last night and expect one of them to be the creative playmaker, thats never going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 We know he has had money it's a non-argument, here look at this: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/managers-comparisons.html Moyes has the same net spend as Harry at spurs, and has a bigger net spend than Wenger, the money argument, should not even be brought into the conversation tbh, because it has no foundation the stat's clearly show Moyes has spent money, It all comes down to tactics and selections, and Moyes does'nt ever want to stick with the same more than a game or 2 in a row regardless of how well they are doing. Exactly!! Although I do think that table is misleading! We have proved this season we can compete against the best, so why can't Moyes see that and play to our strengths! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 you really are shameless..... yes blame Moyes, it was his fault and his alone for picking the team he did. Agree with you totally Matt, yes the board have given Moyes relatively fuck all money, but as ive said many times and I'll say it once more we have proved this season we can compete with the best with our current squad, but tactically we can't with the mediocre teams!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 you really are shameless..... yes blame Moyes, it was his fault and his alone for picking the team he did. oh don't be so narrow minded. Of course it was down to Moyes last night no one is disputing that. You asked why there is an element of board bashing - and I told you "cause and effect" Moyes mentality has been fashioned in my opinion by working under extraordinary circumstances. Net spend doesn't always tell the big picture - you need to factor in squad size, timing of funding etc etc. Moyes has been on a permanent consolidation mission - frugal, cautious, defensive, calculated all these words apply to his tenure, one word missing has been exciting. I'm not excusing him or excusing the board - it's plainly just not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks Haf. I am going to be bold and disagree with you on Rodwell and Felliani (certainly not on the evidence of last night though). I think the 2 of them could form a good partnership if; we play 5 in midfield the 3rd centre midfielder is a creative player capable of playing in the hole (Osman or Barkley) the 2 wide midfielders are given a licence to attack, drift inside on occasion and switch flanks on occasion we play 2 attacking full backs (Baines and Coleman) we play a lone centre forward capable of holding the ball and bringing others in to play (Jelavic or Vellios) The advantage of having 2 centre mids who playing disciplined roles is it allows us to be bold and attacking in other areas. Unfortunately if we play them both in a flat midfield like last night and expect one of them to be the creative playmaker, thats never going to work. 100% agree. Two defensive players in midfield can work very well, provided they have the right attacking players infront of them, with the freedom to make the most of it. Sort of like a 4-2-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks Haf. I am going to be bold and disagree with you on Rodwell and Felliani (certainly not on the evidence of last night though). I think the 2 of them could form a good partnership if; we play 5 in midfield the 3rd centre midfielder is a creative player capable of playing in the hole (Osman or Barkley) the 2 wide midfielders are given a licence to attack, drift inside on occasion and switch flanks on occasion we play 2 attacking full backs (Baines and Coleman) we play a lone centre forward capable of holding the ball and bringing others in to play (Jelavic or Vellios) The advantage of having 2 centre mids who playing disciplined roles is it allows us to be bold and attacking in other areas. Unfortunately if we play them both in a flat midfield like last night and expect one of them to be the creative playmaker, thats never going to work. But that would mean players being played in the correct positions!! Never going to happen!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue4Ever Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Ossie - better than the rest combined and shouldve started but still shit I hope you were truely smashed out your brains OSMAN better than the rest combined u must be having a laff worst player that came on didnt do a thing in 20 minutes but to be fair he should have started over rodwell because jack didnt look interested or fit as did coleman and pienaar im not a moyes out fan but fucking hell to say we didnt deserve the 3rd we could have been beat by 7 yesterday apauling performance. for such a good manager he really does make me think he's thick at times. Edited March 14, 2012 by Blue4Ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I hope you were truely smashed out your brains OSMAN better than the rest combined u must be having a laff worst player that came on didnt do a thing in 20 minutes but to be fair he should have started over rodwell because jack didnt look interested or fit as did coleman and pienaar im not a moyes out fan but fucking hell to say we didnt deserve the 3rd we could have been beat by 7 yesterday apauling performance. for such a good manager he really does make me think he's thick at times. I agree he did'nt do much, but Drenthe was by far the worst, the stupid fool nearly got himself sent off, which will instill even less confidence in him from Moyes which means he will be benched for the next 3 games, stupid tw*t, everyone of them including the manager was a disgrace to the club last night end of imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 the money is an argument...look at the teams harry and arsene inherited..and look at the shite moyes had to get..but i don't believe moyes would do better with money to be honest...i said earlier what haf said...he can steady a ship fine but he doesn't have a lookout to find land..no one with any bollocks in that backroom staff to say moyes you're bein a cunt...vic isn't a winger he's an impact forward how can no one see that? you don't bring a player like drenthe on to try and get at them when already 2-0 down the guy is a liability in that case...he's a starter and needs to get in their faces from the off before they get their tails up...liverpool were shittin themselves before yesterday at losing 4 games on the trot..we let them off big time...moyes needs to stop bein a stubborn bastard and get rid of that wet wipe of a man round by his side...might as well have a fuckin terrapin tellin him what to do...yes sir no sir suck your scottish nob sir...you're right davey thanks davey...its fuckin pathetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Talking of terrapin's, I used to collect them in the Kinder eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 i'm thinkin that's where he collects backroom staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 i'm thinkin that's where he collects backroom staff Nah, the German's are better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 true...i'm goin for a read in the office for 20 mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 oh don't be so narrow minded. Of course it was down to Moyes last night no one is disputing that. You asked why there is an element of board bashing - and I told you "cause and effect" Moyes mentality has been fashioned in my opinion by working under extraordinary circumstances. Net spend doesn't always tell the big picture - you need to factor in squad size, timing of funding etc etc. Moyes has been on a permanent consolidation mission - frugal, cautious, defensive, calculated all these words apply to his tenure, one word missing has been exciting. I'm not excusing him or excusing the board - it's plainly just not good enough. not being narrow-minded, putting blame where it belongs for this game since this is the game thread. if it had been in the BU thread or a Kenwright sucks thread, I could look at the bigger picture. This is for the crap from last night and the only person to blame is Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I hope you were truely smashed out your brains OSMAN better than the rest combined u must be having a laff worst player that came on didnt do a thing in 20 minutes but to be fair he should have started over rodwell because jack didnt look interested or fit as did coleman and pienaar im not a moyes out fan but fucking hell to say we didnt deserve the 3rd we could have been beat by 7 yesterday apauling performance. for such a good manager he really does make me think he's thick at times. aaaand breathe..... I wasnt smashed, i was making a point that even though he was shit, I thought he was better than the rest, bar Hibbert and Baines if that makes you happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Moyes is getting loads on here - some of which I agree with, some is just fickle. Is the match against Suderland not the must win game this week? Yes vs the shite for pride but that will soon be forgotten if we progress to wembley after a win on sat. Imagine we grind out a hard fought point or even a win then follow up with defeat vs Sunderland - some would be moaning that our players were burnt out having played 3 games in a week (£40k a week!!! - I know.) Yes we may have lost momentum but at the same time we may have avoided a tired performance on Saturday (in a more important game). I personally am forgetting about that shite last night and am ready to get fully behind the boys on sat and hopefully again at wembley (twice). Yes Moyes cocked up last night but he'll have critics whatever - I think last night was perfect for Cahill and Neville!!! he's now got a chance to take us to wembley again and let's just prey he delivers! P.s. I will be critical if the Heit/Distin partnership is not restored on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisNewburn Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Rodwell had an absolute shocker - you could poll for WMotM and I dare say he'd win by streets. The more creative outbursts here keeping me smiling though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The only credit i can give Moyes for last night, is for NOT playing Neville. And for that i resind my vote in MOTM from Jonny H (for not smacking Moyes) to Pip, for this week not giving DM a blozzer and garaunteeing his position in the team. For once, Pip stood up for himself and told DM that his gob was off the menu. No positives for this week. None yesterday. nothing. nutta. nowt. nope. nil. eqojfB'U Ojadgh gbfugiofgub uo 37wr08fy24078 y3u q$*("&4 rhopuidhf ouher fjlr bjfoqurq8o 3h !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANGRY!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Im surprised Neville did'nt come on instead of Drenthe, the Drenthe substitution was pointless at that time, he should have started imo, at least Neville might have rallied the troops a bit also is anyone else getting a bit fed up of Howard shouting at players because of mistakes he has made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Moyes is getting loads on here - some of which I agree with, some is just fickle. Is the match against Suderland not the must win game this week? Yes vs the shite for pride but that will soon be forgotten if we progress to wembley after a win on sat. Imagine we grind out a hard fought point or even a win then follow up with defeat vs Sunderland - some would be moaning that our players were burnt out having played 3 games in a week (£40k a week!!! - I know.) Yes we may have lost momentum but at the same time we may have avoided a tired performance on Saturday (in a more important game). I personally am forgetting about that shite last night and am ready to get fully behind the boys on sat and hopefully again at wembley (twice). Yes Moyes cocked up last night but he'll have critics whatever - I think last night was perfect for Cahill and Neville!!! he's now got a chance to take us to wembley again and let's just prey he delivers! P.s. I will be critical if the Heit/Distin partnership is not restored on Saturday. The thing is though; Moyes' tactical masterstroke has put the players under MASSIVE pressure to win on Saturday, as if there wasn't enough already. And they now go into the game with our unbeaten run snapped big time by our local rivals, confidence will be extremely low, and fans have been criticising them (and the manager). It's hardly an ideal scenario is it? One or two changes last night would have been acceptable, even if we'd still lost, but to fuck about with the team that much before such a crucial game, and for it to blow up in Moyes' face in such a colossal way, was a major fuck up. Momentum is everything, and now we have none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Just wanna call out a stat - in 10 games at Anfield under Moyes - we have scored a grand total of 5 goals.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The thing is though; Moyes' tactical masterstroke has put the players under MASSIVE pressure to win on Saturday, as if there wasn't enough already. And they now go into the game with our unbeaten run snapped big time by our local rivals, confidence will be extremely low, and fans have been criticising them (and the manager). It's hardly an ideal scenario is it? One or two changes last night would have been acceptable, even if we'd still lost, but to fuck about with the team that much before such a crucial game, and for it to blow up in Moyes' face in such a colossal way, was a major fuck up. Momentum is everything, and now we have none. This, it's that thing of taking one step forward and following it with two steps back again, we keep doing it year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue4Ever Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 aaaand breathe..... I wasnt smashed, i was making a point that even though he was shit, I thought he was better than the rest, bar Hibbert and Baines if that makes you happier. wasnt trying to correct you but Osman done less than Drenthe and he gave a goal away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks Haf. I am going to be bold and disagree with you on Rodwell and Felliani (certainly not on the evidence of last night though). I think the 2 of them could form a good partnership if; we play 5 in midfield the 3rd centre midfielder is a creative player capable of playing in the hole (Osman or Barkley) the 2 wide midfielders are given a licence to attack, drift inside on occasion and switch flanks on occasion we play 2 attacking full backs (Baines and Coleman) we play a lone centre forward capable of holding the ball and bringing others in to play (Jelavic or Vellios) The advantage of having 2 centre mids who playing disciplined roles is it allows us to be bold and attacking in other areas. Unfortunately if we play them both in a flat midfield like last night and expect one of them to be the creative playmaker, thats never going to work. Couldnt agree with you more! Plus for the Drenthe bashers, give the lad a break FFS. As soon as he came on he was being double teamed by the RS. They didnt give him an inch and none of those around him even offered him a pass. You could see him looking up for help but no one else wanted the ball. He was the only one who suffered from this either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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