The Beard Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I agree so much with Haf I posted it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 thats happened a couple of times now, think theres a glitch somewhere Louis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 thats happened a couple of times now, think theres a glitch somewhere Louis? Matt, I clicked on quote but nowt happened then when I clicked it again the 'quoted post' appeared twice in my response. I think it was just slow rather than a glitch but as I am a technophobe I shall leave the reasoning to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Matt, I clicked on quote but nowt happened then when I clicked it again the 'quoted post' appeared twice in my response. I think it was just slow rather than a glitch but as I am a technophobe I shall leave the reasoning to you. ah, ok! just saw it happen in one or 2 other posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) The 4-5-1 is still the best formation for us, but the best players have to be played in their best positions, and we need to have a good centre forward. 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 Doesnt matter, we would have been a lot better off this season keeping Beckford and Yakubu. Edited January 5, 2012 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 The 4-5-1 is still the best formation for us, but the best players have to be played in their best positions, and we need to have a good centre forward. 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 Doesnt matter, we would have been a lot better off this season keeping Beckford and Yakubu. Agree with Bill. If Saha wasn't scoring you know one of the others would replace him, thus giving competition and apitite back to those who get dropped. I have to admit, 4-5-1 probably is our best formation, based on the quality we do actually have in the midfield areas of our squad, however as highlighted in one of the other threads, a 4-3-3 whilst attacking (using Donovan and Drenthe as wingers) would work wonders i reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Present situation is pretty scary! We will probably be a bit too good for Tamworth, but lets be honest, that's only just about 'pappering over the huge cracks'. Small squad, some of our (so called) better player just aren't good enough, Cahill and Neville spring to mind.Sahahahah, sorry this is no laughing matter will only ever regain his goalscoring prowess when he get's expert service from creative midfielders (so that's probably a no no for now) are Rodwell and Barkley really as good as we are led to believe! Injuries, they could happen to anyone, but we sure as hell don't need any more.Maybe a player or two ready to stand back and watch Donovan run rings around people, well in the wind and rain that's probably not going to happen. Thank god for Tim Howard, surely our best player this season. Don't bet against a battle to stay in the prem....we are at present THAT poor. Blame!.....I blame Moyes 40%......the players 60% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why can't we just line-up like this: http://www.footballu.../306442/Everton Play possession-based football. We have players who can pick passes in the middle. We have pace and skill out wide. Why not fucking play 'm? Been shouting this formation from the roof tops for ages. Not only does it offer us good defensive & attacking options but the we have player who can come in and be a direct replacement. The likes of Barkley, Cahill, Vellios, Straq, Bily (to some extent), & even Baxter could come in and slot straight into one of them positions, and it would be a natural position. Having said that though, formation isnt the reason we are losing games and playing shite football. We arent pressing high up the pitch, we arent pressing as a team, we arent passing & moving as a team, we are marking closely enough or even at all in some cases. I managed to watch a bit of the Newcastle vs Man Utd game earlier, and Newcastle were playing like we used to. They showed no respect to the Man Utd, they exposed some of them for the average players they are and deservedly got the 3 points. Undoubtedly they have the worse team on paper, but everyman knew their job and they executed their plan perfectly. Yet again I couldnt tell you what Moyes' game plan was last night... Im beginning to think he doesnt have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 We have many players out. Are we not expecting a bit too much from Moyes? Our squad is wafer thin, so much, that our fans are craving for children to play for us. Doesn't that signify the problems Moyes has regarding selecting a team? We are short of a dozen or so senior players, and our plight may get worse in the summer when many contracts will have ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why can't we just line-up like this: http://www.footballu.../306442/Everton Play possession-based football. We have players who can pick passes in the middle. We have pace and skill out wide. Why not fucking play 'm? 3 of those players are injured / ill, and Donovan is here for a few weeks. Our problem isn't about our best 11, but about not having a squad to replenish it when things go tits up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 3 of those players are injured / ill, and Donovan is here for a few weeks. Our problem isn't about our best 11, but about not having a squad to replenish it when things go tits up. We obviously cant play that team now, but you could easily replace Gueye or potentially Coleman in there when people get injured (and they arent injured). Yes the squad is thin, and it needs some depth but as a starting point it is much better than what we have been putting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 We obviously cant play that team now, but you could easily replace Gueye or potentially Coleman in there when people get injured (and they arent injured). Yes the squad is thin, and it needs some depth but as a starting point it is much better than what we have been putting out. We can only guess on what would work. My best guess is to give Moyes options with more players, even if that means selling a few stars and turning 3 stars into 12 squad players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 We can only guess on what would work. My best guess is to give Moyes options with more players, even if that means selling a few stars and turning 3 stars into 12 squad players. Not really considering we have seen the majority of the players play in them positions and play well (albeit some play crap as well). Moyes has had options but 95% of the time we can still guess who is going to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Not really considering we have seen the majority of the players play in them positions and play well (albeit some play crap as well). Moyes has had options but 95% of the time we can still guess who is going to play. If you look at our senior team, we don't have too many alternatives Bailey. This is the list taken from our Official site. It's a bit outdated ass some players are out on loan, or back with the reserves. Jan Mucha (number 2 keeper) 2 Tony Hibbert 3 Leighton Baines 5 John Heitinga 6 Phil Jagielka Injured: 7 Diniyar Bilyaletdinov 8 Louis Saha 9 Landon Donovan (short term loan) 10 Royston Drenthe Injured: Ill 11 Denis Stracqualursi 14 James McFadden 15 Sylvain Distin 17 Tim Cahill 18 Philip Neville 19 Magaye Gueye 20 Ross Barkley 21 Leon Osman Injured: 23 Seamus Coleman Injured: Thigh strain 24 Tim Howard 25 Marouane Fellaini Injured: Abductor 26 Jack Rodwell Injured 27 Apostolos Vellios 28 Victor Anichebe Returning from injury 29 Joao Silva On Loan: Vitoria de Setubal 31 Adam Forshaw 34 Shane Duffy On Loan: Scunthorpe United (recalled) 37 Jose Baxter On Loan: Tranmere Rovers 38 James Wallace On Loan: Shrewsbury Town 43 Conor McAleny 12 Marcus Hahnemann contract runs out in January. It's easy to see why Moyes picks similar players. His squad is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 We can only guess on what would work. My best guess is to give Moyes options with more players, even if that means selling a few stars and turning 3 stars into 12 squad players. I can see some logic to that, but I think Everton's been diluted enough. This league is a fine league and 12 players of '7/10' might well end up putting Everton in the bottom third. Just can't think a team would willingly sell their better assets for a greater number of weaker ones... but maybe it could work, I dunno! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Maybe a few loan players could be the answer. I'm not a huge fan of the loan system, but it might be just the ticket with money being tight and the future uncertain. Still needs money, I know, but it's usually only the wages (as far as I'm aware) - accepting it's usually out of favour players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Maybe a few loan players could be the answer. I'm not a huge fan of the loan system, but it might be just the ticket with money being tight and the future uncertain. Still needs money, I know, but it's usually only the wages (as far as I'm aware) - accepting it's usually out of favour players. We can only take a small amount of loan players in one season. We already have 3 long term loans, of which only 2 are allowed to be played in any match at the same time from that loan group. Donovan is a short term loan, and we can have 12 short term loans over the course of the season, but still only 2 can play from each group, with the max being 5 in one game. I put a thread up regarding this recently about the FA rules. If we were to sell somebody, who would it be though? Our team is already ageing, and these positions need regenerating. We can't wait for an investment that might never arise, as contracts run out, and ageing players become injured, and less effective. It's better to be a relegation fighting side, than a relegated side. At present, we are still a mid table side, so fans need to be content with that at least, and anything else is a bonus. If we don't get squad players in, then we start depending on our youth players and academy players, and that upsets their natural development, and brings an imbalance to the club as a whole. For me, if I had to chose, I would sell Baines, Jagielka, and Rodwell while the iron is hot, and hope to get big money. It's possibly the worst scenario for the fans, but the best scenario for the bank balance, and our best bet of getting some decent players in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can see your thinking. Quite radical though and might be seen as the nail in the coffin by some fans (selling the remaining few players of serious quality / potential). Even then, what would Moyes see of the money? He'd have to have 100% of it, but I suspect it might not be so simple... some of the debtors MIGHT have claims on any transfer money before it gets to Moyes (pure speculation, no evidence for that). Rodwell I can see going, Baines is trickier.... not that he isn't great - he is, but who'd buy? if you want big money, it's only going to be coming from a handful of clubs... Spurs, City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea.... which of those would be in the market? Can't see Jag going for 'big' money. I think folks would be interested though, just not for mega bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can see your thinking. Quite radical though and might be seen as the nail in the coffin by some fans (selling the remaining few players of serious quality / potential). Even then, what would Moyes see of the money? He'd have to have 100% of it, but I suspect it might not be so simple... some of the debtors MIGHT have claims on any transfer money before it gets to Moyes (pure speculation, no evidence for that). Rodwell I can see going, Baines is trickier.... not that he isn't great - he is, but who'd buy? if you want big money, it's only going to be coming from a handful of clubs... Spurs, City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea.... which of those would be in the market? Can't see Jag going for 'big' money. I think folks would be interested though, just not for mega bucks. Rodwell and Jags would be lucky to get £10m each in my opinion. Fellaini and Baines are our biggest assets. I think either of those players would get in every side in the world, be it on field or bench, so if he doesn't go in January, he'll probably go in August unless we get investment. The club can't let value diminish. Somewhere out there is another Leighton Baines. That is the game. If we were to get a good price, we could bring in 6-8 useful players. We can't ignore that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 and how do we pay 6-8 players were trying to cut the wage bill,no chance of this happening. Good point, and no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Let say, and trying to be realistic Baines for 23million Fellaini for 12 million Rodwell for 10 million Jags for 5 million That would be 50 million... a fine amount. Spend 30 million on 8 players (leave 20 million for wages) makes 4 million quid a player (thereabouts) Now, we've saved the wages of the 4 outgoing players, so we're just paying for 4 extra players wages.... 2 players on 50K a week = 200K a week = 0.8 million a month, therefore you'd get 18 months of their services for no additional cost (give or take) 4 good players out, 8 'hopefuls' in.... interesting, very interesting Mr Avin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 fellaini 12million? must be jokin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you look at our senior team, we don't have too many alternatives Bailey. This is the list taken from our Official site. It's a bit outdated ass some players are out on loan, or back with the reserves. It's easy to see why Moyes picks similar players. His squad is a joke. We have enough alternatives to not consistently play Neville in midfield for example. Im not saying Moyes is blessed with options, because he clearly isnt but the only time he has really changed anything is because of injury. Its only in the last couple of weeks that the injuries have started coming in, but before that he had a full squad to play with. The performances were crap and he barely changed anything. Another example would be Jags/Distin at the back. Heitinga only played because of Distin's injury yet they are playing way below par. Moyes had the chance to make that change but didnt. I do agree with the selling part though, but my worry is because of the 'state' of our club atm, clubs wont pay the market value for a player and that makes things even harder. If Jags is also out for the rest of the season, his value will drop further and not make it worthwhile to move on, I personally would want to keep Felli, Rodwell & Barkley because of what they can bring to the club for the future as they are probably our best midfield trio if it ever happened. Hopefully Bily will move on and as much as I wouldnt like it, I thik Coleman would be next on my list. If he isnt going to be a FB then whats the point in keeping him, as we wont be a proper winger. I would like to think he would fetch a decent figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 fellaini 12million? must be jokin Treble that at least. Luckily he seems to be a very underated player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's incredible how little people still know about Felli - £12m - parp!!! Let's keep it that way anyway - Felli could get into any team in the prem - city included - serious money would need to be offered (£30m bracket). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Clearly a decent player, but come on, 30 million? bonkers... pure bonkers. That's Baines @ 30 and Fell @ 30 60 million quids worth of talent.... when you put it like that, THEY have some explaining to do as to why you're where you are. It's not realistic, it's just not. IF someone really really wanted them, then of course you could hold out for a bit and get more, but you're not in a strong selling position really, and he's just not in the 30 million bracket. I do accept plenty of others have been over priced in the past, and you may well be right, that he's so good he's worth it. Surely then, surely, they'll be knocking at the door for him soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) tell me why fellaini is only worth 12m? how much you pay for barry...you're takin the piss mate..seriously he dominated your midfield when we beat you 2-0 a couple seasons back when he was just settling...the lad is young..powerful..skillful..as calm as they come..if you really rate him at 12m you've never watched him play Edited January 5, 2012 by marcopaulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 £4m per player purchases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 only 4 million workin' on Avin's strategy... sell the best, but get more players (less quality, but more of them). Not saying it would work!!!... just doing the maths regarding the wages and how it theoretically would all work out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Wish I'd not bothered trying to do the maths now!... OK, so you paid 12 million (15 million Euro) for Fell, he's been good, but he's not set the world alight. it's 4 years on - you believe he's gone up in value. 30Million is taking the piss too. Lets say you get 20million then? the whole point wasn't to be rating players really... it was 'how much could you get if you sold all 4'... 50 - 60 million? more? less? I suppose there's a couple of ways of looking at it... You either believe there's over 60 million on the pitch with just those 4 (feasible), or you look at it the other way and say "how much for 4 players from a mid table team?".... one who is without doubt pure class (Baines), one that has a lot of potential and COULD be a great, but too early to be sure (Rodwell), a fairly decent defender that's hardly set the world alight (Jags) and a 'rising star' that you paid a record fee for, who has been good at Everton and has generally been very good, but again, hasn't set the world on fire... As for City's buys... massively paid over the odds for most of them. We'd not get anywhere near our money back on 90% of the buys. Some served a purpose quite well, a fair few were total flops and one or two possibly went up in value. The only clubs who (theoretically) are going to be splashing silly money for players would be Chelsea and City, and Fellaini won't be on their list. So who IS going to be forking out 30 million for him? nobody. Maybe I'm totally wrong. As you say, it's very different when you see your own team week in week out and see players that aren't headline makers but are pure class for your team. So, if someone came in with 20 million for him - you'd all say no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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