Avinalaff Posted December 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 We can't put pressure on them i do agree, but we do need to give them game time, the likes of Barkley should be in the team a bit more than at the moment, sadly in the modern game, players hold all the power, and if they don't get games their agents just engineer them a move to somewhere they can play regularly and we can't afford to lose promising players because they are getting pissed off at sitting on the bench or playing in the reserves all the time. There will be a reason Barkley hasn't played Pris. It's unlikely that 40,000 Everton fans at the game see his potential, and Lord knows how many fans elsewhere, but Moyes doesn't. He's only a kid when said and done, and he made a few mistakes which cost us. Those kind of things can weigh heavily, so maybe Moyes has one eye on his ability and one eye on Barkleys best interests. I think we'll see a bit more of him soon, but who does he drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 There will be a reason Barkley hasn't played Pris. It's unlikely that 40,000 Everton fans at the game see his potential, and Lord knows how many fans elsewhere, but Moyes doesn't. He's only a kid when said and done, and he made a few mistakes which cost us. Those kind of things can weigh heavily, so maybe Moyes has one eye on his ability and one eye on Barkleys best interests. I think we'll see a bit more of him soon, but who does he drop? well we will see when he signs for the manc munch bunch at some point, and tbh, there is a hell of lot Moyes does'nt see Av, for starters he seems to be the only manager who still thinks 4-5-1 is a viable tactic, a few years ago yes, but not anymore, its done to death and people know its weaknesses and they pick us off so easily its scarey, and he has no options, it appears to be the only formation he actually knows, and the fact that certain players should not be near a blue jersey let alone in the team unless we really are desperate, we all know he has his favourites mate, i could go on but i can't be arsed and want to go read my new book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 well we will see when he signs for the manc munch bunch at some point, and tbh, there is a hell of lot Moyes does'nt see Av, for starters he seems to be the only manager who still thinks 4-5-1 is a viable tactic, a few years ago yes, but not anymore, its done to death and people know its weaknesses and they pick us off so easily its scarey, and he has no options, it appears to be the only formation he actually knows, and the fact that certain players should not be near a blue jersey let alone in the team unless we really are desperate, we all know he has his favourites mate, i could go on but i can't be arsed and want to go read my new book. We often play a variation. Utilising Cahill as a second striker, or sitting behind the striker, for example is hardly 4-5-1, nor allowing Heitinga to drift between Defence and Defensive mid. Playing 4-4-2 is defensive. I was under the impression that our formation changed according to what situation we experienced at the time, but I'm not the best to discuss formations with anyone. I think giving players freedom to be resourceful is key. A few new players in the squad wouldn't go amiss. (All the best btw mate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 well we will see when he signs for the manc munch bunch at some point, and tbh, there is a hell of lot Moyes does'nt see Av, for starters he seems to be the only manager who still thinks 4-5-1 is a viable tactic, a few years ago yes, but not anymore, its done to death and people know its weaknesses and they pick us off so easily its scarey, and he has no options, it appears to be the only formation he actually knows, and the fact that certain players should not be near a blue jersey let alone in the team unless we really are desperate, we all know he has his favourites mate, i could go on but i can't be arsed and want to go read my new book. We havent been playing 4-5-1 for a while now, or at least we hadnt been until Cahill was dropped and Ossie came in behind the striker against Swansea Cahill has been playing as an out and out striker in a 4-4-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 We havent been playing 4-5-1 for a while now, or at least we hadnt been until Cahill was dropped and Ossie came in behind the striker against Swansea Cahill has been playing as an out and out striker in a 4-4-2 Im with you on this Dunc from what ive seen Cahill doesnt drop deep anymore and is playing as an out and out striker. The problem i have with that is it takes away his best attribute-arriving late into the box and snapping up any chances that are there. Cahill has suffered due to our inability to sign a striker as ive said on another thread Cahills form will improve with Donovans arrival as it will ease the pressure on him to be first into the box which aint his style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 There will be a reason Barkley hasn't played Pris. It's unlikely that 40,000 Everton fans at the game see his potential, and Lord knows how many fans elsewhere, but Moyes doesn't. He's only a kid when said and done, and he made a few mistakes which cost us. Those kind of things can weigh heavily, so maybe Moyes has one eye on his ability and one eye on Barkleys best interests. I think we'll see a bit more of him soon, but who does he drop? I do have to question Moyes' judgement though when he leaves out a WC finalist CB for the best part of a year and then as soon as he gets his chance at CB proves he is the best defender at the club. Same could be said with the persistence of playing Cahill. Yes he was rightly dropped against Swansea, but there was no need for him to come off the bench. He may well have his reasons about Barkley but unless he is going on loan in Jan, we wont learn anything by sitting on the bench. We havent been playing 4-5-1 for a while now, or at least we hadnt been until Cahill was dropped and Ossie came in behind the striker against Swansea Cahill has been playing as an out and out striker in a 4-4-2 This... formation has nothing to do with our form, after all Barca, Chelsea, Man Utd (ish), Liverpool, Man City (ish), Arsenal etc etc all play a variation of 4-5-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 We havent been playing 4-5-1 for a while now, or at least we hadnt been until Cahill was dropped and Ossie came in behind the striker against Swansea Cahill has been playing as an out and out striker in a 4-4-2 it is 4-5-1, because Cahill contributes fuck all to the team, so we only have one upfront at the best of times, if we were playing with 2 upfront, he would start with Strac or at least he would, have a 3 pronged attack, it's far to negative for my liking, lets face it, its pretty much 4-6-0 a lot of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I do have to question Moyes' judgement though when he leaves out a WC finalist CB for the best part of a year and then as soon as he gets his chance at CB proves he is the best defender at the club. Same could be said with the persistence of playing Cahill. Yes he was rightly dropped against Swansea, but there was no need for him to come off the bench. He may well have his reasons about Barkley but unless he is going on loan in Jan, we wont learn anything by sitting on the bench. This... formation has nothing to do with our form, after all Barca, Chelsea, Man Utd (ish), Liverpool, Man City (ish), Arsenal etc etc all play a variation of 4-5-1. Bailey, being a World Cup finalist is absolutely zero testament to a players ability. It is a team game, not an individual sport. Heitinga was sent off in that final. Hardly a sign he made the correct decisions during the World Cup. He was dropped because Distin was outstanding. I personally thought our defence should have been Heitinga and Distin, but I don't pick the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Bailey, being a World Cup finalist is absolutely zero testament to a players ability. It is a team game, not an individual sport. Heitinga was sent off in that final. Hardly a sign he made the correct decisions during the World Cup. He was dropped because Distin was outstanding. I personally thought our defence should have been Heitinga and Distin, but I don't pick the team. No I am aware it isnt, but he was our best CB when he first came to the club, and he is again now. He didnt have a drop in form, he just never got to play a run of games at CB. Distin was good, but he was still making errors and the less said about Jags the better for the most part of this season. Youre right it probably should have been them Heits & Distin, but the one partnership that proved time and time again that it wasnt working was Jags & Distin and Heits wasnt given a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 No I am aware it isnt, but he was our best CB when he first came to the club, and he is again now. He didnt have a drop in form, he just never got to play a run of games at CB. Distin was good, but he was still making errors and the less said about Jags the better for the most part of this season. Youre right it probably should have been them Heits & Distin, but the one partnership that proved time and time again that it wasnt working was Jags & Distin and Heits wasnt given a chance. The question has to be directed towards Jags. For me, Distin has proved his worth, and deserves his place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 The question has to be directed towards Jags. For me, Distin has proved his worth, and deserves his place. Whichever one you want to query, the point remains. I do agree with you though, although overall Jags is the better defender (just hasnt shown it enough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Whichever one you want to query, the point remains. I do agree with you though, although overall Jags is the better defender (just hasnt shown it enough). Bailey, I can't agree. Distin is at the end of his career, but he is an absolute top professional. Jags is miles behind in my opinion. He had a good season, but no way is he the better defender. If he 'isn't showing it', then he isn't doing it. His top flight career is not long enough to have one good season, and then be able to get by on reputation. How he got back in the England squad is beyond me, but then so did Johnson, rather than Richards, so there are few surprises with England. Distin has been our outstanding player for some time now. If we lose him, we will regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Bailey, I can't agree. Distin is at the end of his career, but he is an absolute top professional. Jags is miles behind in my opinion. He had a good season, but no way is he the better defender. If he 'isn't showing it', then he isn't doing it. His top flight career is not long enough to have one good season, and then be able to get by on reputation. How he got back in the England squad is beyond me, but then so did Johnson, rather than Richards, so there are few surprises with England. Distin has been our outstanding player for some time now. If we lose him, we will regret it. he was shocking today though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 he was shocking today though Why? I thought Jags was the poor performance, looking increasingly indifferent and always needing the extra touch. Heitinga was looking to get sent off again, so not sure any Central defenders were particularly brilliant. Hibbert was decent enough though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Bailey, I can't agree. Distin is at the end of his career, but he is an absolute top professional. Jags is miles behind in my opinion. He had a good season, but no way is he the better defender. If he 'isn't showing it', then he isn't doing it. His top flight career is not long enough to have one good season, and then be able to get by on reputation. How he got back in the England squad is beyond me, but then so did Johnson, rather than Richards, so there are few surprises with England. Distin has been our outstanding player for some time now. If we lose him, we will regret it. He may well be a top professional but he costs us as many goals as he saves us and he does get us into trouble that us unnavoidable. Im not arguing that Jags should have been on the bench, I am arguing that Jags has a better all round game than Distin and when both are on form, then jags is a much better defender. He shouldnt have made it into the England team, but his performance for England was foot perfect, which shows the problems are with Everton than the player himself. It was no surprise to me for him to start to show real form alongside Heitinga. They have been our best partnership at the back since Lescott left, although I am waiting for them to be truely tested against some of the big guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Why? I thought Jags was the poor performance, looking increasingly indifferent and always needing the extra touch. Heitinga was looking to get sent off again, so not sure any Central defenders were particularly brilliant. Hibbert was decent enough though. the way he was turned for the goal, the near deflected own goal, the dodgy headed clearances, the wild hoofing, the bad passing decisions when he did play it on the floor..... I normally quite like Distin and up until his injury was our best CB without doubt but he was terrible today. Jags has looked good with Johnny alongside him in recent games but was lost with Distin next to him today and at the beginning of the season. Johnny didnt have a good game but he was being played out of position (again) and undoubtedly frustrated about being bumped from his favoured position after playing well for the last 3-4 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 He may well be a top professional but he costs us as many goals as he saves us and he does get us into trouble that us unnavoidable. Im not arguing that Jags should have been on the bench, I am arguing that Jags has a better all round game than Distin and when both are on form, then jags is a much better defender. He shouldnt have made it into the England team, but his performance for England was foot perfect, which shows the problems are with Everton than the player himself. It was no surprise to me for him to start to show real form alongside Heitinga. They have been our best partnership at the back since Lescott left, although I am waiting for them to be truely tested against some of the big guns. I'm obviously seeing things differently with Distin Bailey. I thought he had a good shout for player of the year last season, and until he was injured had been decent this year too. It's cool though. Life would be boring if we all thought the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexKing Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Voted 1 and thats already confirmed Donovan. Others what might to be happen are some youngster for youth team. Hopefully no1 except Bily aint going out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 it is 4-5-1, because Cahill contributes fuck all to the team, so we only have one upfront at the best of times, if we were playing with 2 upfront, he would start with Strac or at least he would, have a 3 pronged attack, it's far to negative for my liking, lets face it, its pretty much 4-6-0 a lot of the time If your saying Cahill doesnt count then surely thats 4-4-1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 If your saying Cahill doesnt count then surely thats 4-4-1! if you include Saha too its like were playing 4-5-0. Certainly seems like were playing with 9 sometimes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 if you include Saha too its like were playing 4-5-0. Certainly seems like were playing with 9 sometimes..... Haha yeh with Cahill, Saha and Neville all being anonymous we are only playing with 8 men! No wonder we are struggling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Would it be worth a cheeky bid for Sessignon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Would it be worth a cheeky bid for Sessignon? I think he would be too much. Dont know what Sunderland paid for him in the summer but considering he has looked one of their best players in the last couple of weeks, I cant imagine they would be looking to sell for less £8-10mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think he would be too much. Dont know what Sunderland paid for him in the summer but considering he has looked one of their best players in the last couple of weeks, I cant imagine they would be looking to sell for less £8-10mil. They paid £6m I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 fuck all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 They paid £6m I think. Sounds about right. Unfortunately he is the type of player we have to bring to the Premier League first and then sell on (if needs be). Yes there is a risk (cough Bily cough) but Premier League players are now at a premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/7403389/Market-quandary-for-Moyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I think he would be too much. Dont know what Sunderland paid for him in the summer but considering he has looked one of their best players in the last couple of weeks, I cant imagine they would be looking to sell for less £8-10mil. Think they got him last Jan with the Bent money - when they got Muntari on loan too. He (SS) would have been the natural replacement for Pienaar but we were skint then and skint now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Think they got him last Jan with the Bent money - when they got Muntari on loan too. He (SS) would have been the natural replacement for Pienaar but we were skint then and skint now! I thought they got him on loan then, but bought him in the summer? Could be wrong though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosexD Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hoping we sign a good striker to get us them vital goals we need and hopefully abit more buisness this season to move us up table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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