David Moyes appreciation thread

[Avinalaff]

Did he really play right back? Dont remember, be interesting if its true.....

 

As for the rest, youre taking it as absolutes. No, its not always 100% a two way street, sometimes despite a managers best efforts a player can still have a stinker, which in turn will reflect badly on the manager. But its also true that a manager can say something to his players that inspires them or makes a positive decision in a match.

 

So there are cases where youre right but in my opinion the majority of the time it goes both ways.

 

Matt.

 

You look for things to be picky about (remember the pedantry comments?).

 

It's the same when you pull somebody on their spelling. Why bother. Is it important if I write 'Right back' by mistake? It shows that you are petty, and that's why we don't get on. Stop taking everything literally, and be a bit more resourceful in your train of thought, and you will discover life is so much more rewarding.

[Hafnia]

_{Baines was a bog standard right back when he joined us, and became an International because of Moyes' performance. When Baines' plays bad, it's because Moyes managed badly, and failed to inspire him.}

 

_{Is that true, or is it only the bits that suit you?}

 

_{Players have a duty to perform. Are they now only able to perform if the manager helps them psychologically?}

_{Baines was a top quality Left back who had won player of the year from Wigan at the age of 22 - Man United and Arsenal were watching him. He represented England Under 21's two years before joining us. £6m is testimony to that. A bog standard right back is Tony Hibbert - Baines is and has been always much more than that.}

[Avinalaff]

It's not that though, Av. Any one who is passionate about their football club believes their club is special and not just a football club. Whether they're Accrington Stanley fans or Barcelona fans.

 

It's a romantic notion Romey. If we take our heads out of our arses we then realise that no matter how many titles we have, we are still in this situation. Then, we can deal with things easier. Thinking we are high and mighty means we have further to fall.

[Matt]

That's because you have feelings of entitlement.

 

Please tell me how we are so special? I'll then show you Manchester United or Liverpool. Argue the case and I'll then show you Real Madrid or Barcelona, and so on.

We have a better history than many others, but that means little when we are skint, and struggling.

 

You remind me of the posh people on the Titanic that thought they should have a life boat to themselves.

Feelings yes. Of entitlement? No, I just love the club. Most fans would say theyre the best in the world (even when 99% of the are wrong) and that they are special. Any money Tamworth will be singing "were by faaaaaaaaaar the greatest team, the world has ever seen" when they come. Are they? no, but to every fan there they will feel like the team is special.

 

 

 

Im going to ignore that at the end....

 

 

Matt.

 

You look for things to be picky about (remember the pedantry comments?).

 

It's the same when you pull somebody on their spelling. Why bother. Is it important if I write 'Right back' by mistake? It shows that you are petty, and that's why we don't get on. Stop taking everything literally, and be a bit more resourceful in your train of thought, and you will discover life is so much more rewarding.

I thought he might have been brought in as a RB and i was genuinely asking if that was the case. Simple as. You want to twist it, fine by me. Again, going to ignore the personal stuff.

[Romey 1878]

It's a romantic notion Romey. If we take our heads out of our arses we then realise that no matter how many titles we have, we are still in this situation. Then, we can deal with things easier. Thinking we are high and mighty means we have further to fall.

 

 

It's got nothing to do with titles, that's why I said Accrington Stanley fans feel the same way about their club. It's all about passion.

[Avinalaff]

 

 

 

_{Baines was a top quality Left back who had won player of the year from Wigan at the age of 22 - Man United and Arsenal were watching him. He represented England Under 21's two years before joining us. £6m is testimony to that. A bog standard right back is Tony Hibbert - Baines is and has been always much more than that.}

 

 

I asked if the statement was true. It wasn't my opinion.

 

My opinion is that Moyes spotted a talent in Baines, and bought him. During his tenure with Everton he improved, gained confidence, and met expectation. I find it difficult when folk suggest Moyes is responsible if he performs below par, just as much as I would find it difficult if Moyes were to take all the credit for his successes.

 

Moyes picks him, and Moyes' game plan relies heavily on all 11 players playing 100%. When players let him down, Moyes takes the flack, but Moyes' destiny is not always in his own hands. That was my point, that Matt was unable to comprehend.

[Avinalaff]

Feelings yes. Of entitlement? No, I just love the club. Most fans would say theyre the best in the world (even when 99% of the are wrong) and that they are special. Any money Tamworth will be singing "were by faaaaaaaaaar the greatest team, the world has ever seen" when they come. Are they? no, but to every fan there they will feel like the team is special.

 

 

 

Im going to ignore that at the end....

 

 

I thought he might have been brought in as a RB and i was genuinely asking if that was the case. Simple as. You want to twist it, fine by me. Again, going to ignore the personal stuff.

 

Don't ignore it - think about it's meaning.

Also, the amount of times you mock people, then pretend you weren't trying to be smart is comical.

[Avinalaff]

It's got nothing to do with titles, that's why I said Accrington Stanley fans feel the same way about their club. It's all about passion.

 

I agree as to why it exists Romey. I simply state that we must put our pride aside.

 

When the shit hits the fan, it doesn't take a detour to miss the mighty.

[marcus jones]

Oh dear oh dear, is this some sort of Stalinist lefty type forum? I don't like what you post because I disagree with everything you post so therefore you are in the wrong? No, everybody's views are right because it's an opinion. I like the opinions of all peeps on here, even Moggsy but I do not have the right to tell some one they are wrong, it's their right to think so. I bet if you look on some Arsenal forums then some of them want Wenger to go. Point is I guess I don't get in a huff about it. This is a top,top forum because all views are welcome.............. I hope.

[Matt]

Don't ignore it - think about it's meaning.

Also, the amount of times you mock people, then pretend you weren't trying to be smart is comical.

Ive not mocked anyone. It was a genuine question.

 

Also, the amount of times you get personal is comical.

[Romey 1878]

I agree as to why it exists Romey. I simply state that we must put our pride aside.

 

When the shit hits the fan, it doesn't take a detour to miss the mighty.

 

 

Again, it's nothing to do with pride. Not even a bit. It's just what goes hand in hand with being a fan of something - football club, rubgy team etc etc. If you're passionate about something then you automatically elevate it in your mind to a higher standing. But it's nothing to do with what Everton have won, or our own pride as people.

[Avinalaff]

Ive not mocked anyone. It was a genuine question.

 

Also, the amount of times you get personal is comical.

 

Matt.

 

My mind is made up about you, so cut the crap.

Nobody likes a smart arse mate, especially one that tries to wriggle out of everything. It's ugly.

There is no reason to converse with me further, as I won't see your posts.

[Matt]

i know it is and its so far off the truth that its actually making me laugh. But I couldnt be arsed what you think to be honest so put me on ignore, have fun

[Avinalaff]

Again, it's nothing to do with pride. Not even a bit. It's just what goes hand in hand with being a fan of something - football club, rubgy team etc etc. If you're passionate about something then you automatically elevate it in your mind to a higher standing. But it's nothing to do with what Everton have won, or our own pride as people.

 

Romey, I think we both understand it, as we're both fans.

 

My point to Matt was that we have to forget history, and anything else, if we are to be able to contemplate our current situation.

Up and down the forums, fans can't accept it, because they feel we should be above all this.

 

Things are what they are. Wimbledon were once a great club too.

 

What has happened to many is called a 'fall from grace'. Some fans can't deal with that. Others can, and have no choice, unless they want to be depressed and look for something to blame.

 

I'd rather take it on the chin, say "Oh well", and see where we go from here.

[Romey 1878]

Romey, I think we both understand it, as we're both fans.

 

My point to Matt was that we have to forget history, and anything else, if we are to be able to contemplate our current situation.

Up and down the forums, fans can't accept it, because they feel we should be above all this.

 

Things are what they are. Wimbledon were once a great club too.

 

What has happened to many is called a 'fall from grace'. Some fans can't deal with that. Others can, and have no choice, unless they want to be depressed and look for something to blame.

 

I'd rather take it on the chin, say "Oh well", and see where we go from here.

Romey, I think we both understand it, as we're both fans.

 

My point to Matt was that we have to forget history, and anything else, if we are to be able to contemplate our current situation.

Up and down the forums, fans can't accept it, because they feel we should be above all this.

 

Things are what they are. Wimbledon were once a great club too.

 

What has happened to many is called a 'fall from grace'. Some fans can't deal with that. Others can, and have no choice, unless they want to be depressed and look for something to blame.

 

I'd rather take it on the chin, say "Oh well", and see where we go from here.

 

 

What you're not taking into account is that fans aren't complaining about us being fairly low in the table, or that we're not winning things or smashing the likes of Arsenal and Mancheser United to bits.

 

Fans, like myself, are concerned that Moyes isn't getting the best out of what he has, that Moyes is making baffling decisions when he has better options, that the players aren't pulling their weight in games, that the players are not showing what they're truly capable of.

 

Yes, we've had to sell players to balance the books, and we all accept that. But the players that we have left are better than what they're showing.

 

Your opinions are all correct; we have no right to be at the top of the league etc. But those opinions have no relevance to the concerns of the fans that you have issue with.

[Bailey]

Oh god, here we all go again... Same arguement both sides but I just cant quite resist!

 

So it was down to Moyes' great management skill that Baines won player of the year then Matt?

 

In short yes. Not 100%, not like our performance was 100% Moyes' fault. Moyes (or the Chairman) brought Baines in, who was a promising young full back with a quality Left peg, and eventually managed to get the best out of him by creating a team that played to his strengths. I would say though that it is kinda what he is expected to do is it not?

 

That's because you have feelings of entitlement.

 

Please tell me how we are so special? I'll then show you Manchester United or Liverpool. Argue the case and I'll then show you Real Madrid or Barcelona, and so on.

We have a better history than many others, but that means little when we are skint, and struggling.

 

You remind me of the posh people on the Titanic that thought they should have a life boat to themselves.

 

Thats got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard... Like people have said, everyone believes their team is the greatest, but it doesnt mean that they expect them to be winning trophies or winning every game. I didnt/dont expect Everton to win anything this year, so what entitlement do I have? To expect the players to get paid for what they do? Or to expect the manager to do his homework before each game and set a team up to exploit that as best as we can?

 

I still dont honestly know what Moyes plan was against Arsenal, or what he thought by bringing on Distin. I understand Gueye and Mcalaney, but even then I have to question what the plan was from there. I dont even think the players really knew, as the likes of Cahill & Felli were popping up all over the place. I dont know if anyone watched the Spurs game yesterday, but Redknapp was unlucky not to be going away with the 3 points in that 2nd half. He knew he got it wrong, he shuffled his back and went for it. Spurs had more attempts away against Stoke when they were down to ten men than we did in 90 mins at home. I admit that having better players on the bench was a factor in the improved performance, BUT they went out there with a purpose. As soon as that whistle sounded they were going to try and win that game. Redknapp took responsibility and made the changes, and the players themselves stood up and took the repsonsibility to get them back in the game. We seem to keep passing the buck.

[Bailey]

What you're not taking into account is that fans aren't complaining about us being fairly low in the table, or that we're not winning things or smashing the likes of Arsenal and Mancheser United to bits.

 

Fans, like myself, are concerned that Moyes isn't getting the best out of what he has, that Moyes is making baffling decisions when he has better options, that the players aren't pulling their weight in games, that the players are not showing what they're truly capable of.

 

Yes, we've had to sell players to balance the books, and we all accept that. But the players that we have left are better than what they're showing.

 

Your opinions are all correct; we have no right to be at the top of the league etc. But those opinions have no relevance to the concerns of the fans that you have issue with.

 

Completely this! Although I wish you had typed it earlier so I didnt have to waste my time writing mine! ha

Edited December 12, 2011 by Bailey

[Avinalaff]

What you're not taking into account is that fans aren't complaining about us being fairly low in the table, or that we're not winning things or smashing the likes of Arsenal and Mancheser United to bits.

 

Fans, like myself, are concerned that Moyes isn't getting the best out of what he has, that Moyes is making baffling decisions when he has better options, that the players aren't pulling their weight in games, that the players are not showing what they're truly capable of.

 

Yes, we've had to sell players to balance the books, and we all accept that. But the players that we have left are better than what they're showing.

 

Your opinions are all correct; we have no right to be at the top of the league etc. But those opinions have no relevance to the concerns of the fans that you have issue with.

 

Romey, I can't be that out of touch with our fans, that I've got it all wrong, and I've totally misinterpreted their emotions. I'm not an outsider looking in, but a fan.

 

I see the total package, from various corners, be it Anti board, anti kenwright, anti Moyes etc etc.

 

I see fans demanding trophies, and stating that Moyes has won nothing.

 

Do you know why I think much of it is? Manchester City.

 

We appear to have become a fan base of crying arses since their take over. Since they took Lescott, it's been discontent, because we can't compete.

[Matt]

Oh god, here we all go again... Same arguement both sides but I just cant quite resist!

 

 

 

In short yes. Not 100%, not like our performance was 100% Moyes' fault. Moyes (or the Chairman) brought Baines in, who was a promising young full back with a quality Left peg, and eventually managed to get the best out of him by creating a team that played to his strengths. I would say though that it is kinda what he is expected to do is it not?

 

 

 

Thats got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard... Like people have said, everyone believes their team is the greatest, but it doesnt mean that they expect them to be winning trophies or winning every game. I didnt/dont expect Everton to win anything this year, so what entitlement do I have? To expect the players to get paid for what they do? Or to expect the manager to do his homework before each game and set a team up to exploit that as best as we can?

 

I still dont honestly know what Moyes plan was against Arsenal, or what he thought by bringing on Distin. I understand Gueye and Mcalaney, but even then I have to question what the plan was from there. I dont even think the players really knew, as the likes of Cahill & Felli were popping up all over the place. I dont know if anyone watched the Spurs game yesterday, but Redknapp was unlucky not to be going away with the 3 points in that 2nd half. He knew he got it wrong, he shuffled his back and went for it. Spurs had more attempts away against Stoke when they were down to ten men than we did in 90 mins at home. I admit that having better players on the bench was a factor in the improved performance, BUT they went out there with a purpose. As soon as that whistle sounded they were going to try and win that game. Redknapp took responsibility and made the changes, and the players themselves stood up and took the repsonsibility to get them back in the game. We seem to keep passing the buck.

very well put. Spurs were excellent in the second half. I imagine Parker had something to say alongside Redknapp but its the manager that makes the changes and they nearly paid off.

[Avinalaff]

Completely this! Although I wish you had typed it earlier so I didnt have to waste my time writing mine! ha

 

Arse licking is so ugly mate.

[Matt]

Arse licking is so ugly mate.

its not a matter of arse licking, its a matter of respecting someone elses opinion. Not surprised you dont recognize that though....

[Avinalaff]

What did he say?

[Mogsy]

Oh dear oh dear, is this some sort of Stalinist lefty type forum? I don't like what you post because I disagree with everything you post so therefore you are in the wrong? No, everybody's views are right because it's an opinion. I like the opinions of all peeps on here, even Moggsy but I do not have the right to tell some one they are wrong, it's their right to think so. I bet if you look on some Arsenal forums then some of them want Wenger to go. Point is I guess I don't get in a huff about it. This is a top,top forum because all views are welcome.............. I hope.

 

Oi !!!!!! And it's mogsy not moggsy!!!

[Avinalaff]

Oi !!!!!! And it's mogsy not moggsy!!!

 

Mogsy, ydych chi wedi gweld faint y titw tomos ar mat? Rhaid iddo fod yn dwbl g cwpan.

[Bailey]

Arse licking is so ugly mate.

 

Seriously I dont get what your problem is and then you cop when I say that I think you are on the wind up?!

[Mogsy]

 

 

Mogsy, ydych chi wedi gweld faint y titw tomos ar mat? Rhaid iddo fod yn dwbl g cwpan.

 

yn awr yn awr

[Romey 1878]

Arse licking is so ugly mate.

 

 

Bit out of order don't you think? Are you arse licking if you agree with someone's point or if someone agrees with a point you make? No.

[Avinalaff]

Seriously I dont get what your problem is and then you cop when I say that I think you are on the wind up?!

 

It just comes across as a bit points scorey, when you see people typing 'this' or +1 etc etc.

I'm hardly here on a wind up Bailey.

 

I joined the forum full of good intent, but the negativity has just worn me down. I can't relate to it at all, and I was supporting the club before many here were born, so it's not a lack of support thing.

 

I also think some of the members are a bit see through, and some tend to go with the flow.

 

I support Moyes. Everton have never been a sacking club by tradition. I don't see that Moyes has been dealt a fair hand. Rather than criticise him, I'd rather he was supported by the board where possible, and allowed to manage with the tools required.

 

Internet fans are far too fickle and knee jerky.

 

This forum has about 20 regular posters, and a few who drop in, and the ones who frequent it regularly all tend to have the same opinion. My opinion is not the same, and as a result, I don't fit in.

 

I think that is fairly clear.

[Avinalaff]

Bit out of order don't you think? Are you arse licking if you agree with someone's point or if someone agrees with a point you make? No.

 

It's a clique forum Romey. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

Still, you have Haf to keep the fires burning, eh mate.

[Everton_Worshiper]

Wow, lots of testosterone running through this discussion.

 

Back to the David Moyes part of the discussion...I think he has been wonderful for our football club, truly stabilised our sinking ship. I am a huge admirer of his and he will always be part of my memories of Everton.

At the moment we are all fairly negative for numerous reasons and if things were going well may be I wouldn't be thinking this, but I honestly think Moyes is nearing his expiration date - a bit like a loaf of bread, when you bought it you it had a long date on it and it made the nicest, softest sandwiches but as the days go by the sandwiches you make with it just don't taste as fresh anymore. I don't think we are quite at the mouldy stage though. (Apologies for the terrible analogy, made sense in my head whilst writing this...)

If Moyes turns it around then I am sure we would all love to be proved wrong. In fact, I hope he does prove us all wrong but I can't help but join the growing numbers who are starting to doubt Moyes' managerial "freshness" right now. I have had a hectic last 6 months or so but only missed 2 games this season, so I really look forward to and think positive about each game but at the moment I keep coming away completely deflated.