Arsenal

[Avinalaff]

im not pretending. I know what I meant. If you want to interpret it otherwise, thats up to you. Think most people on here know what i meant.

 

You know something Matt, I actually believe you. Nobody could be that rude, or abrupt, on a regular basis, knowingly.

[Bailey]

Aah, ok mate. So because I'm not a whinging little cunt like you I'm here on the wind up?

Grow a pair lad. You sound like a 3 year old, looking for someone to blame, instead of just accepting we were outplayed. Even when we had a full squad,m Arsenal still battered us, so exactlky what result were you expecting with our current squad?

Bailey, sorry for swearing.

 

Haf ....

 

We know we are going to get trounced before we even play. What good is it crying every week? It's futile, and childish. We can't change things, so why encourage negativity? We're not children, so why can't a few fans accept we are struggling, and offer Moyes a bit of encouragement?

 

I accept your apology, but telling me to grow a pair when you precede it with that is a little bit hypocritical to say the least. I explained what I thought we should do and how we should go about the game in the match day thread, and I still believe Arsenal arent that brilliant of a team. RVP certainly is, and as I said in that post if he scores a worldy then well done, BUT we gave them so many opportunites to score before that, it becomes irrelevant. If Gervinho & Walcott werent so average in the final third (which I also put in that post) then we could have been further behind. Ramsey & Arteta didnt do anything special, even though we gave them all the time in the world. They were there to be had a go at, and we handed it to them on a plate. We played to their strengths and didnt even test their dodgy back 4 (made even worse by having Vermaelen at LB).

 

I genuinley dont believe there is any encouragement for Moyes out there today, apart from that as I have also said, that McAlaney looks a decent prospect and that Heitinga was again immense back in his preferred position of CB.

 

He stops the onslaught by adding to midfield, and a few minutes later puts on 2 strikers. Everybody was too busy crying to see what he was doing. Exactly what was Saha doing for us?

You're kind of missing the event that happened between those two decisions which was a bit fundamental to the second decision.

 

Have you ever been a tabloid journalist?

 

I genuinley think you have completely missed the boat with this one as Mike points out. Mcalaney & Gueye only came on because we went a goal down. The Distin decision is beyond me. If he wanted to strengthen the midfield then why not bring Barkley on for either the under performing Neville or Cahill. Taking off our only striker is scandalous. I must admit I am not entirely convinced he was fully fit, but playing with 6 defenders and 5 midfielders is never going to win a game of football, and by having so many players then out of position it becomes hard to even draw games against half decent teams. Surely even with your commendable positive outlook, could see that Moyes didnt make the best decision in this instance?

 

I agree with you, but it's not just the arsenal game it's happened in is it? I don't think anybody here is under the illusion that we will beat arsenal at their home, I think the frustrations of everyone are being compounded by the constant negativety of Moyes's tactics. If we had gone out last week against stoke last week with an attacking formation and hopefully won the game, i(we) wouldn't mind a defensive formation today, but when it's the same shit week in week out, be it QPR home, stoke home or arsenal away it's getting very frustrating.

 

I agree and thats whats worrying me the most. He has said we lack flair for may weeks now, yet he still starts with the 'workhorses' or the predictable players when he gets the chance.

[Avinalaff]

I accept your apology, but telling me to grow a pair when you precede it with that is a little bit hypocritical to say the least. I explained what I thought we should do and how we should go about the game in the match day thread, and I still believe Arsenal arent that brilliant of a team. RVP certainly is, and as I said in that post if he scores a worldy then well done, BUT we gave them so many opportunites to score before that, it becomes irrelevant. If Gervinho & Walcott werent so average in the final third (which I also put in that post) then we could have been further behind. Ramsey & Arteta didnt do anything special, even though we gave them all the time in the world. They were there to be had a go at, and we handed it to them on a plate. We played to their strengths and didnt even test their dodgy back 4 (made even worse by having Vermaelen at LB).

 

I genuinley dont believe there is any encouragement for Moyes out there today, apart from that as I have also said, that McAlaney looks a decent prospect and that Heitinga was again immense back in his preferred position of CB.

 

 

 

 

I genuinley think you have completely missed the boat with this one as Mike points out. Mcalaney & Gueye only came on because we went a goal down. The Distin decision is beyond me. If he wanted to strengthen the midfield then why not bring Barkley on for either the under performing Neville or Cahill. Taking off our only striker is scandalous. I must admit I am not entirely convinced he was fully fit, but playing with 6 defenders and 5 midfielders is never going to win a game of football, and by having so many players then out of position it becomes hard to even draw games against half decent teams. Surely even with your commendable positive outlook, could see that Moyes didnt make the best decision in this instance?

 

 

 

I agree and thats whats worrying me the most. He has said we lack flair for may weeks now, yet he still starts with the 'workhorses' or the predictable players when he gets the chance.

 

Bailey, I reacted to your comment about my being here to only wind people up.

I apologised for it.

Discussing the match immediately after the game isn't always wise, as temperatures are often high. Things in their written form often appear much more aggressive than they might had we both been at the game, then the pub.

Still, there is a bandwagon element of negativity to this forum lately, and much of it is unjustified. Being opposed to that won't get an apology.

[Avinalaff]

BTW ... Asda's Chunky Veg soup.

 

Yum yum.

[Avinalaff]

ok mikeo thanks i didnt know he was in the usa ive been too busy working to keep tabs on people.

 

Grabber.

[nutmegwolf203]

I see your luxury tv just happens to be in New York.

Let's not let 7000 miles get in the way of you condemning Moyes though. How are the Yankees doing these days?

I see lots of moaning coming from Mississippi too, and lots of other overseas locations. What I don't see though is too many 'Moyes Out' comments from folk who go to the match. It seems to be very much an 'Internet forum' trend.

 

 

Way to go Matt. I feel mod of the year coming your way.

What don't you get about mods not causing trouble with members?

 

 

 

I agree.

It was a superb goal, from the best striker in the world on current form.

Things will hopefully get a bit easier for a bit with the next few matches. The window will be interesting, and I hope Davey gets the players he wants.

 

So have you all calmed down today peeps?

A few knee jerk reactions yesterday?

Proper fans need a proper manager huh?

 

I had a feeling you'd take a dig at me given that information, fair enough. I support and love this club as much as I think someone could without a direct/regional/familial connection to them. I've played the game since I was very young and unlike many Americans, never stopped. I witnessed some matches here or there years ago...but it wasn't until that Fiorentina match that my allegiance was made concrete, Arteta's goal was a true shot in the arm. I won't compare my admiration for them to yours, it's not worth it. I can't believe that's accurate though, that no one going to matches has any thoughts that are similar to mine. If not Moyes out, than Moyes change. From what you've posted recently it seems as if you wouldn't ask for either. It's not about "luxury", I was at a pub here, alone, ha, and I don't follow a single American sport here(baseball is insulting), truth, couldn't even be bothered, or have the time to go to a Red Bulls match. I wasn't trying to insult you in any way, I just think some sort of action is necessary. Wan't to see if you agreed because you've been very vocal about opposing points. You didn't even address anything I mentioned...you just typified my viewing of "your" club. Again no disrespect.

[nutmegwolf203]

what channel did you watch the game on.

 

Yeah it was on FSC

[Avinalaff]

I had a feeling you'd take a dig at me given that information, fair enough. I support and love this club as much as I think someone could without a direct/regional/familial connection to them. I've played the game since I was very young and unlike many Americans, never stopped. I witnessed some matches here or there years ago...but it wasn't until that Fiorentina match that my allegiance was made concrete, Arteta's goal was a true shot in the arm. I won't compare my admiration for them to yours, it's not worth it. I can't believe that's accurate though, that no one going to matches has any thoughts that are similar to mine. If not Moyes out, than Moyes change. From what you've posted recently it seems as if you wouldn't ask for either. It's not about "luxury", I was at a pub here, alone, ha, and I don't follow a single American sport here(baseball is insulting), truth, couldn't even be bothered, or have the time to go to a Red Bulls match. I wasn't trying to insult you in any way, I just think some sort of action is necessary. Wan't to see if you agreed because you've been very vocal about opposing points. You didn't even address anything I mentioned...you just typified my viewing of "your" club. Again no disrespect.

 

It wasn't a dig. That would suggest I disapprove of overseas fans. I don't, nor was I offended by your comment. It was just an observation, that most of the fans to complain on the forum weren't match goers. The fact that you mentioned your luxury HD tv left yourself rather open to be fair, and I'm not one for missing an opportunity.

 

There are fans in this very thread, who have complained about Moyes, yet state in other threads that they missed the match. There are others who copy comments from other forums (yes, we read other forums too) and post them on here as their own. I just want Moyes to have a fair crack of the whip. He isn't getting it.

[Avinalaff]

Moyes has NEVER beaten any of the big four (Chelsea, Shite, Manchester United, Arsenal), away from Goodison in the League since arriving from Preston in 2002, and from what I read today that isn't likely to change any time soon, yeah, Distin on for Saha when we need a result and attacking options, well done Dave, don't know what you were thinking of really

 

It's like that City game a few weeks ago, some were actually pleased we escaped somewhat intact after a 2-0 loss, and kept it tight, while others , me included, thought why not go out and attack and take a chance, there's no shame in going out and getting your asses kicked for something you believe in and making an effort, instead Moyes that day played it with caution and was maybe holding out for a 0-0 before the start, and even then we still managed to lose, I'd rather have gone for the throat and gone out to win, City are not the super world class team some would believe and I sincerely think with a different approach that day we may well have got something

 

I don't want to get into Moyes slagging mode as I think as an individual, he's a decent enough man, but soccer is a results business, and yet again today highlighted some of the man's managerial deficiencies

 

How can you say that if you missed the game?

Why folk want to jump on the anti Moyes bandwagon is beyond me. Watch the match, then make comment. You can't tell 'anything' from reading what has been written in this thread. You need to see it for your own eyes.

 

 

 

I didn;t even see the match, I was involved in a match day progress forum on a rival site but got so hacked off as it got further underway I left a few minutes before the final whistle and had to go out and get some air, after they scored and Moyes made some more tactical blunders I realized we weren't going to get any change and divorced myself from the dying embers of the game. General consensus from Toffees is that Moyes is a spent force and it;s desperately getting near the time the Scotsman steps down, I can't argue that sometimes

 

I felt inclined to say 1-0 isn;t a bad result, but how does that work out, when it's still a defeat. I remember when they hit seven past us near the end of the european cup finishing season six years ago, so maybe today a one goal reverse isn't so bad, but a loss is a loss, still haven't beaten these since January 1996 away from home and I thought mistakenly we could have got something from today ahead of time, but it wasnt to be

 

People have said today they should, or could have had half a dozen so maybe I should applaud our players who kept the score down and they can share the match day honors

 

(having problems with saved drafts)

[Mogsy]

 

 

How can you say that if you missed the game?

Why folk want to jump on the anti Moyes bandwagon is beyond me. Watch the match, then make comment. You can't tell 'anything' from reading what has been written in this thread. You need to see it for your own eyes.

 

Ha ha me again, I'm not disagreeing with you for fun, but I gotta disagree with this. I for one have mentioned that I don't go to many games, but I do follow everton in more ways than one when they are playing, I have the radio on be it five live or talk sport, I flick from here to the running commentary on Facebook, I watch Internet streams if there is one, I watch MOTD, i read sfter match reports, I think that informs me and most people quite a lot, and helps my make an informed opinion on how Moyes is doing or not doing!

[nutmegwolf203]

It wasn't a dig. That would suggest I disapprove of overseas fans. I don't, nor was I offended by your comment. It was just an observation, that most of the fans to complain on the forum weren't match goers. The fact that you mentioned your luxury HD tv left yourself rather open to be fair, and I'm not one for missing an opportunity.

 

There are fans in this very thread, who have complained about Moyes, yet state in other threads that they missed the match. There are others who copy comments from other forums (yes, we read other forums too) and post them on here as their own. I just want Moyes to have a fair crack of the whip. He isn't getting it.

 

I get it, I only mentioned the tv because I was commenting on resolution, if you will, as I assumed that many other people perhaps viewed the match via streams and what not. I agree, the ownership Moyes has to work with is not a fair crack at the whip, but, given some of the recurring comments from some people on here and elsewhere, are you saying there's nothing he can do differently right now, fair or not, addressing solely what happens on the pitch?

[Avinalaff]

I get it, I only mentioned the tv because I was commenting on resolution, if you will, as I assumed that many other people perhaps viewed the match via streams and what not. I agree, the ownership Moyes has to work with is not a fair crack at the whip, but, given some of the recurring comments from some people on here and elsewhere, are you saying there's nothing he can do differently right now, fair or not, addressing solely what happens on the pitch?

 

I think fans don't look at the bigger picture.

 

We have played great football under Moyes, but we are unable to do so at present, due to losing not one, but both, of our play makers, who also happened to be 2 of our best players. Fans feel that Moyes should be able to 'change' and we'll be playing great again.

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: You can't take away major pieces on a chess board, and still win the chess game every week.

 

Yes, Moyes could do things differently on occasion, but it's easy for us to say what he should do on a forum. Doing it at pitch side is very different.

 

Give Moyes a top 4 side, and he will play top 4 football. Give him a bottom 4 side, and you can't expect silverware. Everton need more players, if Moyes is to have options.

 

To turn on Moyes now, of all times, is piss poor, and that's why a few lads get on my tits. He has been great for us, and still, the board have been unable to back him.

 

Be angry at the situation, but be angry at Moyes? Nah.

[Avinalaff]

Ha ha me again, I'm not disagreeing with you for fun, but I gotta disagree with this. I for one have mentioned that I don't go to many games, but I do follow everton in more ways than one when they are playing, I have the radio on be it five live or talk sport, I flick from here to the running commentary on Facebook, I watch Internet streams if there is one, I watch MOTD, i read sfter match reports, I think that informs me and most people quite a lot, and helps my make an informed opinion on how Moyes is doing or not doing!

 

Bollox.

 

Your opinion is then built based on 'their' opinion. If you see a game yourself, you are able to form your own 'unbiased' opinion. It's a big difference. Dalziel missed the game, read negative opinions, then criticised Moyes. That really gets on my tits. It's called 'bandwagon opinion'.

[Mogsy]

 

 

Bollox.

 

Your opinion is then built based on 'their' opinion. If you see a game yourself, you are able to form your own 'unbiased' opinion. It's a big difference. Dalziel missed the game, read negative opinions, then criticised Moyes. That really gets on my tits. It's called 'bandwagon opinion'.

 

So four to five different 'sources' of information generally all saying the same thing is bollocks??

 

Well my friend how can you form an opinion on anything in life then unless your there in the flesh??

 

If I had read one persons opinion and decided that what he said is gospel then yes, but I for one and most of us on here who don't get to go are intelligent enough to make INFORMED opinions based on several points of information, not just one!

 

I'm off to play 5 a side now, hopefully we'll not have 4 defensive players on our team

Edited December 11, 2011 by mogsy

[Avinalaff]

So four to five different 'sources' of information generally all saying the same thing is bollocks??

 

Well my friend how can you form an opinion on anything in life then unless your there in the flesh??

 

If I had read one persons opinion and decided that what he said is gospel then yes, but I for one and most of us on here who don't get to go are intelligent enough to make INFORMED opinions based on several points of information, not just one!

 

I'm off to play 5 a side now, hopefully we'll not have 4 defensive players on our team

 

 

You can't.

All you can do is guess. Being there and witnessing an event, or having evidence placed before you is everything. Forum posts are not evidence, especially when you consider most here yesterday were the biggest whiners on the net. If 5 guys come back from the bar, and tell you there is a lovely brunette wanting to marry you, will you want to see her first, or will you ring up the church first?

 

If you are buying a car, will you take the words of others, or will you want a test drive?

 

Information is great, but would you want to make a huge decision based on second hand information? I certainly wouldn't.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Avinalaff

[MikeO]

Deleted. Thought better of it.

[Avinalaff]

You can't form an opinion on anything in life unless you're there in the flesh?

 

Now you've lost it....

 

I can guess the holocaust was a bad thing but I can't be certain because I wasn't there?

 

Now you're being childish Mike.

 

I said don't criticise Moyes if you didn't watch the match.

 

Forming an opinion based on experience and forming an opinion based upon testimonies won't always be the same thing, nor the same opinion.

 

I've not read Mogseys question properly, in that my answer was geared towards forming a 'correct and precise' collection of events, as opposed to just 'an opinion', but I'm not perfect. However, for the other guy to claim he didn't watch the match, and then state that "today highlighted some of the man's managerial deficiencies" was bizarre.

[Avinalaff]

Deleted. Thought better of it.

 

Nothing new there then eh mate.

[MikeO]

Now you're being childish Mike.

 

I said don't criticise Moyes if you didn't watch the match.

 

You highlighted Mogsy asking...

 

Well my friend how can you form an opinion on anything in life then unless your there in the flesh??

 

And replied that "you can't"

 

How I am being childish by following that to a logical (if extreme) example?

 

I'm just pointing out the (imo) stupidity of your statement.

 

If that's childish then so be it.

[MikeO]

Nothing new there then eh mate.

 

I edited my own post.

 

Everyone can do that.

[Avinalaff]

I edited my own post.

 

Everyone can do that.

 

The word you used was 'deleted' was it not?

[MikeO]

The word you used was 'deleted' was it not?

 

If I'd deleted it how would you have been able to read the word "deleted" ?

[Avinalaff]

You highlighted Mogsy asking...

 

Well my friend how can you form an opinion on anything in life then unless your there in the flesh??

 

And replied that "you can't"

 

How I am being childish by following that to a logical (if extreme) example?

 

I'm just pointing out the (imo) stupidity of your statement.

 

If that's childish then so be it.

 

Did my last post not clarify that Mike?

 

Now get upstairs and brush your teeth. Your mum will want you in the bath. It's school tomorrow.

[Avinalaff]

Deleted. Thought better of it.

 

Yawn.

[Romey 1878]

Yawn.

 

 

He's an admin, so when he edits a post it doesn't have a stamp.

[Avinalaff]

He's an admin, so when he edits a post it doesn't have a stamp.

 

For fucks sake, he wrote DELETED.

 

"Deleted. Thought better of it."

 

What is it with you people?

[MikeO]

For fucks sake, he wrote DELETED.

 

"Deleted. Thought better of it."

 

What is it with you people?

 

It's fairly simple.

 

If I'd had deleted it it would have disappeared.

 

I edited it and said that it was deleted....but it self evidently wasn't. Because you can still read the edited version.

[Avinalaff]

It's fairly simple.

 

If I'd had deleted it it would have disappeared.

 

I edited it and said that it was deleted....but it self evidently wasn't. Because you can still read the edited version.

 

What did you write, before you edited it and wrote 'deleted'?

 

I'm sure everybody is more interested in that.

[adziom]

Avinalaff:

 

Are you seriously claiming that just because you were in the stadium on match day that you, one person, is right, and everyone else, 5 or 6 people, are all wrong, even though they have seen a live stream, the game live on TV in America, all of the match stats (1 shot on target), the substitutions made, teamsheets and formation, live commentary and post match opinion from countless experts and past footballers?

 

Are you seriously saying that David Moyes, a Premier League manager who has taken us to Europe on a budget repeatedly, is incapable of making sound judgements and taking what he believes to be the best actions on the sidelines (referring to your comment about how it isn't easy to make these judgements and decisions on the pitchside) as opposed to sitting in his living room or wherever else?

 

I'm getting on a boat next Saturday afternoon, if I get off the boat to hear we've lost at home to Norwich, had no shots on target and lined up with the same old static midfield with Bily, Saha and Cahill again in the starting line up, am I not allowed to be angry at Moyes for picking the same players that have been ineffective all season? Just because I haven't seen the game?

 

Furthermore, you've mentioned that "you don't see people inside the stadium calling for Moyes out". Actually, I haven't seen it much on here either. Maybe a couple of people have (rightfully) bemoaned moments like the Distin for Saha substitution on Saturday, Moyes' negative tactics, regardless of opposition, and the incessant insistence of playing Saha and Cahill to no effect week in, week out, when there are countless players on the bench who deserve their chance.

 

I'm not calling for Moyes to be sacked - far from it - what he has done for us has been fantastic, and I have no doubt in his ability to put together another strong footballing side like he has done in the past, but just because he's been great for 9 years, doesn't mean everything he does is great. No manager is perfect, everybody is entitled to disagree with any particular decision a manager makes, all it does is prove that we care, we want to see our team do well and we want to have something to cheer about. Actually, I think we played alright against Arsenal, in that we almost managed a decent result, however at the same time this was more down to Howard, Hibbo and Johnny than any tactical genius from Moyes. Van Persie came up with one excellent goal, otherwise we would have got a point, which is a good result at a top 6 side. But, we haven't had a goalscoring opportunity worth mentioning for 180 minutes of football, and I don't believe that anybody who is happy with that as a football fan needs a good slapping.

[MikeO]

What did you write, before you edited it and wrote 'deleted'?

 

I'm sure everybody is more interested in that.

 

You quoted it before I edited it so it's there for all to see.

 

It was a perfectly valid point imo but I just felt I'd used too extreme an example.