Our style of football

[Avinalaff]

It's been mentioned by many that we are playing the same style of football, and Moyes is incapable of changing this style.

 

Are we though?

 

When Moyes took over, our style was to hoof the ball up to the forward. We were looking for set pieces to score, and our football was like watching paint dry.

 

In my opinion, we are a much better footballing side now, with better skill, flair, and better 'core' players. We keep the ball on the ground more, play in behind the defence, and keep possession a lot better.

 

Considering we have lost both Pienaar and Arteta, it's no wonder we aren't as creative in midfield, but we now utilise wing play, so things are constantly changing.

 

I don't have the required tactical training to discuss tactics in depth, but are those that think we have not evolved really looking at the full picture?

 

Surely the days of 'Dogs of war' are now gone?

[StevO]

we deffinately have better players, i agree with that completely.

but still lining up with a 451 after so long has become past frustrating for me.

 

im sure the dogs of war days have gone, because i dont our current lot are as commited and determined as they were.

[EFC-Paul]

Moyes did have us playing good football for a couple of seasons and we took the game to "the bigger sides" but since then teams have cottoned on to how we played and that system/style slowly windled away.

 

We currently play "hoof" football so for me we have took three steps forward one and a half back.

 

I do think Arteta was and I mean was instrumental to our side a season or two ago but his time prior to leaving He was mediocre at best.

 

I think Barkley has more then what it takes to fill his boots and become a far better player and as although not our player I think Drenthe is a better and more rounded player then Pnut.

 

I don't think current personnel can be blamed for our poor displays we have as much talent if not more then when we had our best period under Moyes, both the players and Moyes need to take it on the chin but more so Moyes and be more creative.

[Lowensda]

When Moyes took over, our style was to hoof the ball up to the forward. We were looking for set pieces to score, and our football was like watching paint dry.

 

Av, that's exactly what we are doing now.it's shocking...our play is so stop start and non fluid, that it really reminds me of Netball. Our players don't play passes for each other to run onto, they always seem to be backwards. Moving with the ball seems a chore, however moving without it is apparent. 'X' player will pass to 'Y' player, who will in turn stop, turn around on the spot for a bit and then pick a pass out to 'X' again, who in turn of receipt, will stop and wait for someone else.

 

Watch Spurs atm, for attacking, fluid, creative, space 'opening' football...its an absolute delight. And before the 'money' argument comes in;

(starting 11 vs Bolton)

 

Friedel - Free Blackburn

Bale - £7m (£2m Cheaper than Bily who started against Stoke)

Kaboul - £6m (Same price we paid for Heits who started against Stoke)

Gallas - Free (We paid more for Jags)

Walker - £4m (of the £9m combined for Kyle Naughton)

Assou-Ekotto £3.5m (We paid more for Baines)

Lennon - £1m (Comparible with Coleman?? But Lennon is the better player - one exception)

Parker - Free West Ham

Modric - £16m (probably only exception however we paid near that for Fellaini who started against Stoke)

Adebayor - Loan from Man City

Defoe - £6m (£4m cheaper than Saha, damn sight better too)

 

Overall the prices we've paid for players and prices Spurs have paid for players, aren't that different. But teh style of play is horrendously different.

 

In my opinion, we are a much better footballing side now, with better skill, flair, and better 'core' players. We keep the ball on the ground more, play in behind the defence, and keep possession a lot better.

 

I would have agreed two or three years ago.

 

Considering we have lost both Pienaar and Arteta, it's no wonder we aren't as creative in midfield, but we now utilise wing play, so things are constantly changing.

 

I don't have the required tactical training to discuss tactics in depth, but are those that think we have not evolved really looking at the full picture?

 

Surely the days of 'Dogs of war' are now gone?

 

They have gone, no doubt, the ability is there to see but its not being harnessed in the correct way. That's my opinion

[Bill]

What formation do you peeps suggest we should play, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, show some line-ups and name the people to play these formations.

 

We are not blessed with multi million pound players sitting as spares on the bench, the same 11 would have to play all those formations because they are all we've got.

 

We play 4-5-1 to pack the midfield and hope to stop the opposition from playing through us, because a midfield consisting of just Coleman, Cahill and Osman would get battered, you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got.

 

The last 8 years has seen the best times for Evertonians since the early seventies, and David Moyes has been responsible for that, give the man your backing and ffs put the knives away.

[Avinalaff]

Ten, that team is quite a team, but it's also a team that fat face has the option to play.

 

Spurs squad would eat ours for breakfast when you look at the strength in depth. You can't compare teams in that way without it being truly flawed as a concept.

[Avinalaff]

What formation do you peeps suggest we should play, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, show some line-ups and name the people to play these formations.

 

We are not blessed with multi million pound players sitting as spares on the bench, the same 11 would have to play all those formations because they are all we've got.

 

We play 4-5-1 to pack the midfield and hope to stop the opposition from playing through us, because a midfield consisting of just Coleman, Cahill and Osman would get battered, you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got.

 

The last 8 years has seen the best times for Evertonians since the early seventies, and David Moyes has been responsible for that, give the man your backing and ffs put the knives away.

 

This is more like it.

[StevO]

That is also part of the problem Bill, he has sold off strikers leaving him with limited options upfront. We barely have the numbers to play two upfront.

 

Personally, with one upfront, id like to see some real big changes.

 

------------------- howard -------------------

------- johnny --- jags --- distin ----------

coleman ---------------------------- baines

------- barkley -fellaini - rodwell --------

------------------ drenthe --------------------

-------------------- saha ---------------------

 

its been a while since i saw something different from a flat back four, dalgliesh has managed it a few times, and england in the 90's did it a bit too

could allow our full backs to push on and still have plenty of cover. barkley and rodwell could push on forward in support with fellaini holding (could also throw osman in to replace barkely easy enough) drenthe playing behind the striker (as a "number 10") could drift out and support either wing and has more freedom shooting from distance and being a creatve force, with out needing too much defending. a lone front man, saha not idea but the best we have at the moment, but i would prefer a target man in this set up, maybe vellios in a few months, with a bit more work.

 

id also, never have drenthe or barkley/osman defending a corner or set piece.

 

just one idea anyway. would never happen.

[MikeO]

The last 8 years has seen the best times for Evertonians since the early seventies

 

Did I dream '84-'87 ?

[EFC-Paul]

I like that a good mixture of both attacking and defensive players, can't see why that wouldn't work and would not be better then what we currently use

 

------------------- howard -------------------

------- johnny --- jags --- distin ----------

coleman ---------------------------- baines

------- barkley -fellaini - rodwell --------

------------------ drenthe --------------------

-------------------- saha ---------------------

[Avinalaff]

That is also part of the problem Bill, he has sold off strikers leaving him with limited options upfront. We barely have the numbers to play two upfront.

 

Personally, with one upfront, id like to see some real big changes.

 

------------------- howard -------------------

------- johnny --- jags --- distin ----------

coleman ---------------------------- baines

------- barkley -fellaini - rodwell --------

------------------ drenthe --------------------

-------------------- saha ---------------------

 

its been a while since i saw something different from a flat back four, dalgliesh has managed it a few times, and england in the 90's did it a bit too

could allow our full backs to push on and still have plenty of cover. barkley and rodwell could push on forward in support with fellaini holding (could also throw osman in to replace barkely easy enough) drenthe playing behind the striker (as a "number 10") could drift out and support either wing and has more freedom shooting from distance and being a creatve force, with out needing too much defending. a lone front man, saha not idea but the best we have at the moment, but i would prefer a target man in this set up, maybe vellios in a few months, with a bit more work.

 

id also, never have drenthe or barkley/osman defending a corner or set piece.

 

just one idea anyway. would never happen.

 

Saha lover

[pete0]

I like the formation, but the football would have to be much more fluid, with the CB's getting forward like Arsenal or all the players switching like that of the Netherlands-Cruyff era.

 

Howard

Coleman Heitinga Distin Baines

Barkley Fellaini Rodwell Drenthe

Bily

Saha

 

One of(with the other staying back) Heits or Distin getting forward as much as possible then who evers the furthest back of felli, rodwell or the cb getting back into the cb position.

Also have baines and drenthe interchanging. As well as bily and barkley.

Edited December 6, 2011 by pete0

[smeghead1]

 

 

Did I dream '84-'87 ?

 

The crazy think is Mike0 for a good few seasons after 87 our final finishing position in the league were ones we would snap up now!

[marcus jones]

What formation do you peeps suggest we should play, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, show some line-ups and name the people to play these formations.

 

We are not blessed with multi million pound players sitting as spares on the bench, the same 11 would have to play all those formations because they are all we've got.

 

We play 4-5-1 to pack the midfield and hope to stop the opposition from playing through us, because a midfield consisting of just Coleman, Cahill and Osman would get battered, you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got.

 

The last 8 years has seen the best times for Evertonians since the early seventies, and David Moyes has been responsible for that, give the man your backing and ffs put the knives away.

Formations have sweet FA to do with how hungry the players are, how they can pass and reccieve the ball in tight areas, how forwards run diagonal not bloody run in straight lines, and how if Moyes plays a man in ''the hole'' then he should make sure it's a player with vision, not Stevie flamin Wonder! I'f fans of the club can see this why can't Moyes! I said before I don't want Moyes to go just to evolve into the manager I always hope he would be. He has developed to a very high standard, and I like him as a person, but when I see other managers doing more with less and evolving faster than Moyes then I really do demand more from him........... because he can.

[Bill]

Yeah it was a ten years lapse in time there lads.

 

But you get my gist, this is the best we've had since then.

[Bill]

Formations have sweet FA to do with how hungry the players are, how they can pass and reccieve the ball in tight areas, how forwards run diagonal not bloody run in straight lines, and how if Moyes plays a man in ''the hole'' then he should make sure it's a player with vision, not Stevie flamin Wonder! I'f fans of the club can see this why can't Moyes! I said before I don't want Moyes to go just to evolve into the manager I always hope he would be. He has developed to a very high standard, and I like him as a person, but when I see other managers doing more with less and evolving faster than Moyes then I really do demand more from him........... because he can.

 

 

See my post Pete..

 

"you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got".

 

We dont have those players, the teams that are above us have because they have shelled out millions to get them.

 

Except for the usual top 6 as they are now, we are better than all the others and our league position over the years has shown that, i think its only been twice outside the top 6 in 9 years.

I am truly amazed at the people calling themselves supporters who are ripping the club and the manager to pieces.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Bill

[marcus jones]

See my post Pete..

 

"you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got".

 

We dont have those players, the teams that are above us have because they have shelled out millions to get them.

 

Except for the usual top 6 as they are now, we are better than all the others and our league position over the years has shown that, i think its only been twice outside the top 6 in 9 years.

I am truly amazed at the people calling themselves supporters who are ripping the club and the manager to pieces.

Are our players not as good as Newcastle's then? Stoke, Villa? I'm with you on the dosh Spurs and Liverpool and City have spent but our players are no pub players themselves, and I'm not ripping the club or Moyes to pieces, he has shown what he can do, maybe finishing fourth shows that, and so we have better players now than back then...................... I hope!

[Avinalaff]

Are our players not as good as Newcastle's then? Stoke, Villa? I'm with you on the dosh Spurs and Liverpool and City have spent but our players are no pub players themselves, and I'm not ripping the club or Moyes to pieces, he has shown what he can do, maybe finishing fourth shows that, and so we have better players now than back then...................... I hope!

 

I think Newcastle and Villa have better players in many departments, and Stoke are no mugs either.

[pete0]

See my post Pete..

 

"you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got".

 

We dont have those players, the teams that are above us have because they have shelled out millions to get them.

 

Except for the usual top 6 as they are now, we are better than all the others and our league position over the years has shown that, i think its only been twice outside the top 6 in 9 years.

I am truly amazed at the people calling themselves supporters who are ripping the club and the manager to pieces.

With the exemption of Coleman, I think our starting 11 would challenge for a place in most teams. It's our bench thats very weak compared to the others, but the kids should be fine to fill in a spot to give a different player a rest every week. Just injuries to any of our 11 and we'd be buggered and have to revert back to what we're doing now. We have the players atm to at least give it a go.

Liverpool have lost Lucas for the season so I'm expecting 7th which isn't bad. If we had stayed/got in the pack and was able to look at the table every week and finished 7th i'd be happy, job well done Moyes you give it your best shot. But it's playing catch up to finish up ultimately 7th at the highest(8th at the lowest) is a lot less exciting each week. Hopefully we'll have a good cup run, otherwise this will jus be another season to forget, like last year.

[StevO]

Saha lover

 

haha maybe. to be honest, on his day he is by far our most talented player imo, but we dont see his day often enough.

but id happily replace him with vellios and tell him he will start the next five games regardles of form and try to get into it a bit more.

[Hafnia]

 

 

Did I dream '84-'87 ?

 

Exactly, then royles team that won in 95 plus the one that seen kanchelskis, Dunc etc.

 

Moyes has done well to rid us of the deadwood that smith accumulated and to give us some progress, gone backwards though.

[Avinalaff]

There has to be more to life than the same conversation every night.

 

Love Moyes v Hate Moyes

 

Starting to get a bit bored now. Who thinks Louis Walsh is a cu%^! ?

[Mogsy]

There has to be more to life than the same conversation every night.

 

Love Moyes v Hate Moyes

 

Starting to get a bit bored now. Who thinks Louis Walsh is a cu%^! ?

 

I'm going to say Yes!

[Bailey]

What formation do you peeps suggest we should play, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, show some line-ups and name the people to play these formations.

 

We are not blessed with multi million pound players sitting as spares on the bench, the same 11 would have to play all those formations because they are all we've got.

 

We play 4-5-1 to pack the midfield and hope to stop the opposition from playing through us, because a midfield consisting of just Coleman, Cahill and Osman would get battered, you have to cut your coat to suit the cloth, and do what you can with what you,ve got.

 

The last 8 years has seen the best times for Evertonians since the early seventies, and David Moyes has been responsible for that, give the man your backing and ffs put the knives away.

 

I dont think the formation is a problem at all. As you say we arent blessed with world beaters in every position, so we have to make the most of what we have, but for me Moyes isnt doing that right now. I dont think we really are winning the midfield battle any more, unless you get teams like Stoke who let us have the ball. We should be closing down and getting tighter to a lot of players, and while we seem to do this in the first 10mins of games we seem to ease off and let them into it after that. Moyes complains of a lack of flair, but keeps his flair players on the bench until 80mins. There is certainly a balance to be had, but I dont think we have that at the moment.

 

Formations have sweet FA to do with how hungry the players are, how they can pass and reccieve the ball in tight areas, how forwards run diagonal not bloody run in straight lines, and how if Moyes plays a man in ''the hole'' then he should make sure it's a player with vision, not Stevie flamin Wonder! I'f fans of the club can see this why can't Moyes! I said before I don't want Moyes to go just to evolve into the manager I always hope he would be. He has developed to a very high standard, and I like him as a person, but when I see other managers doing more with less and evolving faster than Moyes then I really do demand more from him........... because he can.

 

This.

[Bill]

I dont think the formation is a problem at all. As you say we arent blessed with world beaters in every position, so we have to make the most of what we have, but for me Moyes isnt doing that right now. I dont think we really are winning the midfield battle any more, unless you get teams like Stoke who let us have the ball. We should be closing down and getting tighter to a lot of players, and while we seem to do this in the first 10mins of games we seem to ease off and let them into it after that. Moyes complains of a lack of flair, but keeps his flair players on the bench until 80mins. There is certainly a balance to be had, but I dont think we have that at the moment.

 

 

 

This.

 

You obviously didnt read my reply to "This."

[StevO]

There has to be more to life than the same conversation every night.

 

Love Moyes v Hate Moyes

 

Starting to get a bit bored now. Who thinks Louis Walsh is a cu%^! ?

 

THERE IS A TOPIC FOR THAT!!!

http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/23354-the-x-factor-thread/

[SimonButtle]

There has to be more to life than the same conversation every night.

 

Love Moyes v Hate Moyes

 

Starting to get a bit bored now. Who thinks Louis Walsh is a cu%^! ?

How so? Moyes at any other club would have been sacked long time ago, i think it's a perfect topic for discussion, problem is Avin, most people don't want the club to get relegated, and see the club in turmoil, the same stuff is going to come up again an again, because it's not getting sorted by the people at the club ie: the manager, chairman. Difference is, you seem quite happy if the club goes down for a season like Newcastle did, and re-builds, when tbh, its only tweaking that needs to be done, its having the money, and is Moyes the man to spend it?

[Steve_E]

I'd be very happy to see something like this:

Howard

Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines

Fellaini Rodwell

Drenthe Barkley Osman

Saha

 

Hibbert has had a very good spell this season, but his last games weren't that great anymore so he could be replaced by Neville or even Coleman. I don't think Jagielka will ever be dropped. But I think Distin is our best defender and both Heitinga and Distin are actually capable of playing a decent pass. Considering the fact that Heitinga has been skipper for Ajax and the Netherlands, I think he has those leadership qualities Jags has in him as well. You could bring in Neville as well to add that bit of leadership. Baines and Osman can combine on the left to get crosses in. Rodwell and Fellaini play in front of the defense. That really should be enough to guarantee a solid defense. Drenthe and Barkley are allowed some freedom. They need to make runs over Saha who is perfectly capable of playing with his back to the opposition's goal and just laying off their passes, playing give and go's.

[Hafnia]

Blimey even Mark Lawrenson - Moyesy's mate has risked the wrath of DM by saying something many of us are:

 

 

EVERTON know they have a great asset in Leighton Baines – the problem now is that everybody else knows that too.

Baines has become a hugely influential player for David Moyes’s side, and not just with his prowess from dead-ball situations.

The left-back is arguably their most creative player this season, with his crosses from the flanks providing ammunition for team-mates.

It’s a very effective Plan A. Everton, though, don’t seem to have a Plan B at the moment.

So when opponents manage to successfully negate Baines, at least going forward, then Everton hit trouble.

 

Moyes’s team has become too predictable – you know what’s coming.

They cannot mix up the way they make their chances. They seem to generally be the same kind of movement, down the wing to either Seamus Coleman or Baines and then in comes the cross.

 

 

Read More http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/sport/columnists/columns/2011/12/07/mark-lawrenson-why-a-change-would-do-predictable-everton-good-92534-29908334/#ixzz1fqTmBfKH

[FairWooney]

I agree that the formation as such isn't the issue. Everyone loves talking formations bemoaning 4-5-1 etc but the real issue is how those players are told to work their position.

 

At times we play some fairly decent football, most of the team can pass the ball round pretty well but one of the main issues seems to be our lack of ideas when getting forward. Between the striker, attacking mid behind him and centre mids there's not much imagination. Interestingly Arteta spent far too much time passing sideways to our wings when he was with us over the last couple of years but at Arsenal i've seen him playing the ball forward much more. Weather that's down to what his manager is telling him or simply because he has more confidence in the attacking player in front of him to do something, I don't know. But this is a major flaw, our tactic seems to be to get the ball out wide, usually to Baines and get him to swing a cross in. On the other side, let Coleman have a run with it, maybe get into the box and create something or maybe get a cross in.

 

While getting lots of crosses in will create goals were not exactly getting many players in the box, Saha doesn't seem to want to go in the box half the time and Cahill seems to have lost his ability to score.

 

It's clear that our tactic of doing everything with crosses relied heavily on Cahill being able to pop up and score and without him producing it simply won't work.

 

I also like the formation posted above with the extra CB and wing backs. All 3 of our centre backs are more than capable of getting forward a bit to get involved with the midfield, though I would say that given their better passing ability Distin and heitinga are better suited.

 

Anyway....we all love a bit of football management but likely outcome is that nothing will change tactically anytime soon.