Romey 1878 Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 We weren't brilliant but we were a lot better than we have been against the so called big boys, and deserved a point from the game IMO. If we'd had our shooting boots on then that would have been the case, but that's the difference between the best and the rest isn't it United barely troubled our goal and yet they're going back to Manchester with the 3 points. Also, I'm getting more and more confused by Moyes by the game. I know some of you are happy to have Barkley playing on the wing but I've said it from the start that he's a terrible wide man, and I hope the second half showed that to Moyes especially. I never want to see him playing there again. We needed him in the middle where he could actually get involved in our play and make things happen, because, as usual, we had fuck all creativity. Then we're looking to get back in the game and Moyes takes Saha OFF. I hope that was for an injury and wasn't a Moyes lightbulb moment. Can we have Heitinga permanently at CB for us please? The difference having someone back there who is calm on the ball, can control the ball, can pass the ball to a team mate was unbe-fucking-lievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 One substitution that suprised me (for the better) was that Moyes took Osman off. He was nowhere today, and that substitution came 80 minutes too late in my opinion. Its the other tactical bits as others have pointed out, that confuse me. Bily at CM, controls the game. So whats that? "Move him out wide". FFS Moyes! And i agree with Bill, Mark and Everton_way about Coleman. Great game from him today, how anyone can be that critical of him is bewildering in its own right. I'm slightly amazed at some peoples commments regarding him after today's performance. Maybe i'm watching the wrong game and loooking at the wrong things because today, not only was it a vast improvement from the last few weeks, he was (imo) by far one of the stand out players today. Not helped by a certain right back i'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inertia8 Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 I too thought coleman had a better game than usual, I was also frustrated that it was Bily off at half time rather than Osman... hell, if I'd been calling the shots i'd have probably chucked Gueye on for Osman and put him on the left and moved Bily back to the center.. Pretty please don't just automatically slot Distin next to Jags when he recovers from his injury.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hole Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 May or may not be of interest... Here is Stretford End Arising's review piece: http://www.stretfordendarising.com/2011/10/29/everton-0-manchester-united-1-5-things-we-learnt/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Despite the habitual naysayers on the board bemoaning Bily's presence in the team (or anywhere), I thought today demonstrably proved he can do a job in the centre of the park - and it's not as if he was up against some minnows, either. I thought he played well against Chelsea in midweek, too (wasn't the only one, judging by the reception as he was taken off). Moyes' decision to move him out wide proved yet again that Moyes has no clue (along with putting Barkley on the wing). Coleman is championship quality and always will be (although God loves a trier). Fellaini and Rodwell were good. Moyes is leading this team nowhere and wasting what little talent we have. Very disappointing (again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Is it not time to play some fresh faces, and give the 'usual suspects' the last 10 minutes, instead of the other way round? We don't seem to have a strong shot between us lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Gotta love the caption writer on the OS picture gallery... Truly insightful comment on the action . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyaus Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 bily is not a left mid how long is it going to take moyes to realise this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/880124-wayne-rooney-hails-everton-fans-after-man-united-win-at-goodison-park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks for that link Mike, I think it shows something that I have often thought. I have changed employers a lot in my life but I am still an Everton supporter. Rooney is a professional and he makes his living out of football so he is always going to do his best for his employers whoever they may be. But he was and is an Everton supporter, and if we could give him what he gets at ManU I am sure his own preference would be to play for us. Sadly we can not, and although I was upset that he left, I fully understand that he went for what he can get. A professional footballer's career is not that long so I can not blame him for getting as much from it as he possibly can. I am willing to bet that when he finally hangs up his boots, he will be a season ticket holder at Goodison (unless we move of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I think the press make too much fuss over our relationship with Rooney. I reckon most of us wish him the best and would gladly have him back in a heart beat. As for Coleman, I thought he did ok yesterday, but he isn't a long term Winger, as he hasn't the required skill. We can't expect him to have that skill either, as he is a Right Back. Eventually he will get defensive experience, and fight for his Right Back place, or he will get better on the wing. Nobody else in our team has had success on the right side, so we can't really blame Coleman for not being perfect. Personally I think he runs out of ideas, and is a bit of a 'head down and run' player, but he is still young, and might evolve into an Everton Great. Who knows? It's a funny old game as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 http://www.metro.co....t-goodison-park I don't know what he's talking about, the place was dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I don't know what he's talking about, the place was dead. I usually only sit down vs Man.Utd when the game is dead (last yr 3-1!!! ) or at half-time... the frustration around Goodison Park is evident, many fans are nearing the end of their teather and if something doesn't change this season and we have a mid-table/no cup run then another poor Jan/summer transfer window then average attendances are going to be closer to 20k next season than the 40k capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I usually only sit down vs Man.Utd when the game is dead (last yr 3-1!!! ) or at half-time... the frustration around Goodison Park is evident, many fans are nearing the end of their teather and if something doesn't change this season and we have a mid-table/no cup run then another poor Jan/summer transfer window then average attendances are going to be closer to 20k next season than the 40k capacity. Around 35K yesterday wasn't it? That games usually a sell out. The style of football employed by Moyes, and his baffling tactics and substitutions really aren't helping things. If people could see things are still ok on the pitch or being entertained then I don't think attendances and people's obvious discontent in the ground wouldn't be quite as bad as they are this season. But the truth is, the atmosphere is as sterile as the football we play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) I know some of you are happy to have Barkley playing on the wing but I've said it from the start that he's a terrible wide man, and I hope the second half showed that to Moyes especially. I never want to see him playing there again. If Barkley is terrible out wide, you should probably start getting your hopes down because there are a lot of more talented youngsters out there then. I have to disagree with you though, I think Barkley has plenty of attributes that make him capable of playing out wide. I would play him on the right rather than on the left as he probably lacks a bit of pace to go round the opposition's rightback to get a cross in. But if he plays on the right. He can take a man on (unlike Coleman, Bily or Osman) and create room for a shot with his favoured left foot. I too think he'd be even better in the middle, but he probably isn't going to get much game time there because of Cahill and Osman. And Barkley needs all the time on the pitch he can get. Even if it isn't in his best position. It'll just add to his game. Can we have Heitinga permanently at CB for us please? The difference having someone back there who is calm on the ball, can control the ball, can pass the ball to a team mate was unbe-fucking-lievable. Fully agree with this. Distin-Heitinga should be our first choice centre back pairing. Next week, I'd really like to see this: Howard Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines Fellaini Rodwell Drenthe Barkley Osman Saha Edited October 30, 2011 by Steve_E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 If Barkley is terrible out wide, you should probably start getting your hopes down because there are a lot of more talented youngsters out there then. I have to disagree with you though, I think Barkley has plenty of attributes that make him capable of playing out wide. I would play him on the right rather than on the left as he probably lacks a bit of pace to go round the opposition's rightback to get a cross in. But if he plays on the right. He can take a man on (unlike Coleman, Bily or Osman) and create room for a shot with his favoured left foot. I too think he'd be even better in the middle, but he probably isn't going to get much game time there because of Cahill and Osman. And Barkley needs all the time on the pitch he can get. Even if it isn't in his best position. It'll just add to his game. Fully agree with this. Distin-Heitinga should be our first choice centre back pairing. Next week, I'd really like to see this: Howard Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines Fellaini Rodwell Drenthe Barkley Osman Saha I'm sorry but Barkley simply doesn't beat a man at all. He doesn't even look to do it in all honesty. His game isn't suited to being out wide and while it may get him on the pitch for us, it's stifling his progression at the same time. If he keeps being played out there and puts in performances like yesterday due to it not being his proper position what good is that going to do him? It's only going to dent his confidence. And that won't be the line-up because Fellaini is suspended sadly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Firstly I will start off by saying that I have only watched Football First and not the whole game, so my opinions will be based on what I saw in their clips. I thought we actually started with a decent line-up considering the resources available and for the most part, it was probably one of our better showings this season. The back 4 looked as solid as it has been this season (even if the goal was shocking allround - midfielders at fault as well) especially considering Hibbert was all over the place at times. Jags did a lot of excellent covering for Hibbert, and bar a couple of shaky moments himself, it was one of his better performances this season. Heitinga looked fantastic though, and while I would hold a large portion of the blame on him (and Baines) for their goal, he was so assured and calm at the back, and most impressively IMO was the way he managed to quell attacks purely by his positioning. A couple of times Utd threatened to counter and he managed to box them into a corner meaning they had to play backwards. Welcome back! Felli was a beast, as was Rodwell. I prefer it when Rodwell is allowed to advance forward and Felli sits, purely because we look a lot better. Jack did a good job of breaking onto the ball, almost Lampardesque and getting a shot away. He is getting better each week now he is playing a role that suits him. Bily started brightly, but as soon as he made one mistake his head dropped and he was truly shite by half time. Barkley was a good choice to come on in some respects, but he was completely hamstrung on the left. His main asset is coming inside and getting a shot away, and he cant do that from the left. He isnt going to beat a man, and everytime he tried something, it didnt come off, and you could see he wasnt comfortable. I didnt really notice too much of Osman, especially in the second half. However, I would add that he was involved in our best moves in the first half. I would still have him in that position ahead of Cahill every time. Im surprised to see Coleman get some stick on here because he was fantastic yesterday. The amount of yards he covered was exemplery and he gave Evra a really tough game. I admit he didnt always make the most of his position, and I do wish that he would just get that ball in earlier when he has the chance, but he did well and showed a return to form. Saha was a back to his usual self again. He was always coming deep and not trying to get in behind but when he was in the box he looked very sharp. We just need to find a way to keep him in the box because he will get a shot away given half a chance. Vellios made little impact from what I saw, but showed some real determination and metal beating first Evans and then Vidic in the air to a bouncing ball. Shame he didnt have more time. Gueye simply wasnt given long enough on the pitch. Again Moyes made some strange substitutions and silly times, but I think he got the starting line-up right (for once) and it will be intersting to see if the injured players jump straight back in. I think that was probably our strongest line-up, with Drenthe in and possibly Neville at RB. Ideally I would have Drenthe on the right, so Im not sure how Coleman would do on the left but its probably worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'd have to contest the 'strongest' line up statement Bailey. I think Distin is very deserving of his place. If anything, I'd rather see how Distin and Heitinga get on, and sell Jags to City for big bucks in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'm sorry but Barkley simply doesn't beat a man at all. He doesn't even look to do it in all honesty. His game isn't suited to being out wide and while it may get him on the pitch for us, it's stifling his progression at the same time. If he keeps being played out there and puts in performances like yesterday due to it not being his proper position what good is that going to do him? It's only going to dent his confidence. And that won't be the line-up because Fellaini is suspended sadly . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eA1P97xElA The compilation vid from his game against QPR has been taken off apparently. But he takes quiet a few men on in that clip as well. He has clearly got that in his locker. Also, being played out of position doesn't stifle progress. It's even a very common tactic in youth squads to get complete players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=7eA1P97xElA The compilation vid from his game against QPR has been taken off apparently. But he takes quiet a few men on in that clip as well. He has clearly got that in his locker. Also, being played out of position doesn't stifle progress. It's even a very common tactic in youth squads to get complete players. We'll have to agree to disagree then because I hate him being on the wing, and I've seen nothing to make me change my mind about that. He looks far better when he drifts inside where he can actually get involved in the play and make something happen. But that then leaves us with two problems; he's clogging up the central midfield space and leaving the FB horribly exposed, meaning they can't push forward as much because we'll get destroyed on the break down their side, and if they do push forward they've got no support from the wide man because he's gone walkabout. Nah, I don't like it one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Pienaar drifted a lot inside and that was a very successful strategy. Actually I think Barkley at right mid and Coleman right back could work. Have Barkley lure the opposition's left back out of his zone and Coleman exploit the space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'd have to contest the 'strongest' line up statement Bailey. I think Distin is very deserving of his place. If anything, I'd rather see how Distin and Heitinga get on, and sell Jags to City for big bucks in January. While I think Distin has been in better form, he still makes a significant amount of ricks that I wouldnt mind seeing how these two play together for a bit longer. I certainly wouldnt argue that Distin does have a right to be there though ahead of Jags. Pienaar drifted a lot inside and that was a very successful strategy. Actually I think Barkley at right mid and Coleman right back could work. Have Barkley lure the opposition's left back out of his zone and Coleman exploit the space. While I agree with you that Barkley could do a job for us on the right (although preference would be centrally), him and Coleman on the right would be ripped to shreds by the opposition. Neither are the best defensively, and while they would certainly cause a threat down that flank, half decent teams would tear into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 While I agree with you that Barkley could do a job for us on the right (although preference would be centrally), him and Coleman on the right would be ripped to shreds by the opposition. Neither are the best defensively, and while they would certainly cause a threat down that flank, half decent teams would tear into them. I agree, I wouldn't play them together on the right at the moment either. But it's something that could happen in the future, if Coleman has a couple of seasons as right back under his belt. (Though I too would like Barkley to be our main man in the middle of the park by then.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Pienaar drifted a lot inside and that was a very successful strategy. Actually I think Barkley at right mid and Coleman right back could work. Have Barkley lure the opposition's left back out of his zone and Coleman exploit the space. This square pegs in round holes strategy that Moyes likes really is rubbing off on our fans so that we start calling for it now Edited October 30, 2011 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonKey Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Just picking up a few things from others comments, as I missed the game yesterday. We have nothing in terms of wide play from our midfield (Drenthe aside). We need more than 1 up front. Fullbacks are our 'best' attacking outlet. We don't defend the middle well. Would it worthwhile going along the lines of something like a 3-5-2 where the wingbacks make up the numbers outwide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 This square pegs in round holes strategy that Moyes likes really is rubbing off on our fans so that we start calling for it now You could also say some of our fans are still stuck with this outdated idea that footballers can play only one position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 You could also say some of our fans are still stuck with this outdated idea that footballers can play only one position Good comeback! Nah, I know players can play more than one position but I really don't think Barkley can play as a wide man. He doesn't stay out wide at all so I don't see the point in him being played there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Good comeback! Nah, I know players can play more than one position but I really don't think Barkley can play as a wide man. He doesn't stay out wide at all so I don't see the point in him being played there. Reminds me of Arteta, could easily do a good enough job there, but much more suited/likely to excel in the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Good comeback! Nah, I know players can play more than one position but I really don't think Barkley can play as a wide man. He doesn't stay out wide at all so I don't see the point in him being played there. Otherwise, Bily might play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Otherwise, Bily might play. Or, and this might seem totally off the wall so bare with me, we could play an actual winger there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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