FanchesterCity Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Just listening to talk sport on the Chelsea ground move... and there are a number of Chelsea fans who who estimate the top end of their potential crowd to be 50K (ish) Max. There are of course, a few nutters saying "we need to lay a marker and have 10K more than Man U" but they have largely been discredited as fanciful. The Chelsea fans seemed realistic in saying Spurs and Arsenal had more fans, and that was just how it is. So... Hand on heart, and NOT turning it into a stupid pissing contest about fan bases etc, and not wishing to make it another 'should Everton move' thread... but what do people REALLY think is feasible if you were doing quite well - say winning a trophy once every 5 years and hovering around the top 8, contending for the top 6, and possibly in a good year making the top 4 ?... say CL once every 4 years or so? Just as an aside, one intelligent Chelsea fan expressed concern at the football bubble bursting and that Prem League attendances may well decline in the coming years - so it might be foolish to start having wild dreams of 60-70K crowds etc. It seems to me that virtually every club right now is seeing a few empty seats, esp in League Cup cames and early FA cup rounds. But even PL games are rarely sold out. Even Man U have started radio advertising for season tickets sales - if they truly had such a backlog for them, there'd be no need to advertise - to even THEY seem to be affected. So what do we reckon? 50K? 55K? Anybody suggesting 70K - have a word with yourself! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 50k is very possible for everton especially if it is a nicer modern ground...anythin above we would struggle to fill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 50k is very possible for everton especially if it is a nicer modern ground...anythin above we would struggle to fill This. But, IMO, it's got to be a good design like the King's Dock stadium was and not like the shit design of the Kirkby Shed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 50k is possible for us and I agree with Romey, depends on what the new ground might be like. I think it may struggle to create the atmosphere we get in Goodison, there just arent many grounds left like ours. On another note though I do think football attendances will continue to decline, ticket prices keep going up (mostly to pay players wages) and what value are you getting particularly given the farce of Saturday (sorry dont want to start a tangent), you can pretty much find any game you might want to see streamed on the interwebthingy - it isnt the same as actually attending but its better than nowt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 united no longer have a backlog of seasies, they just about sell them out each season now. The year after the Glazers introduced the automatic cup ticket scheme, 27,000 people didn't renew, now anyone on their ticket database are getting called and offered them. I work in St Helens and there are a lot of United supporters there, apparently it's pretty easy to get tickets for their games nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'd agree with 50k. Though if we were building a new ground I'd like prefer to see them get it up to 55k. Though it's not great to have lots of empty seats there'll be those few games a season where you might be able to sell out which would be enough to make up for extra costs incurred. I think that that bit extra would also make it a more desirable venue for any future International tournaments (though hardly something to build your ground based on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 50k with expansion potential would be ideal if you ask me...if we did manage to get regular cl football at some point put some money toward expanding to maybe 55-60...long way off at the moment though sadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I would love to think we could a 100,000 seat stadium every week. But reality is we can't. Maybe if it was only a pound per game to get in we could get a big figure, but as stated before, the cost of going to a match these days is extortionate in order to pay wages. With my sensible head on, I think that if the prices don't go through the roof and we get a nice classy stadium and not a total eyesore ten miles down the East Lancs road we may be able to get close to 60,000 on good days. I might be optimistic with that, but as it is something we can never know... prove me wrong LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) In my opinion to realise the capacity of any 50,000+ seater stadium there needs to be good transport links, and ease of access supplemented by commercial attractions, pubs, hotels etc. For me Goodison is painful to get to from the wirral. Paying £35 for a seat when - and I hate to say this, I can watch the game in my local at the drop of a hat makes going to the game a mission. In this day and age it's a no brainer for many. I would happily go the game more often if say for example we had the kings dock, which would have been a 20 minutes train journey to james street and a 10 minute walk. The price of attending needs to come down and be capped at £25 per seat. Along with this, wage caps need to be introduced. The bubble is going to burst in my opinion - something needs to change, Just look at Man city with their empty seats? They were getting 35000 in when in league one a few years back?! I have held a season ticket for many years, suffered the broken down trains, broken into cars etc etc. If clubs want more fans at the game rather than in front of a telly then the pricing needs sorting, as does the wages. Interesting news which is related: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162241 Surely the knock on effect will be the need to reduce ticket prices and also players wages? Edited October 4, 2011 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Everton's attendances are now on the decline.. the derby was the lowest home derby attendance since 1993. I think it's a combination of people not willing to the pay the prices any more and a "what's the point?" mentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Everton's attendances are now on the decline.. the derby was the lowest home derby attendance since 1993. I think it's a combination of people not willing to the pay the prices any more and a "what's the point?" mentality I know a lot of fans who will not attend till Kenwright and co have gone, and the sale of the players like Pienaar, Arteta etc etc compounded the whole "why should I make myself skint" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I know a lot of fans who will not attend till Kenwright and co have gone, and the sale of the players like Pienaar, Arteta etc etc compounded the whole "why should I make myself skint" that may play a part but there are also very difficult economic times at present. You have to prioritise, kids cant eat a season ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 You could be on to something there codders, we should introduce edible season cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 i'd have fed mine to the dog many times if they did louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 You could be on to something there codders, we should introduce edible season cards. Quality, make em out of crackers and match programmes from cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Interesting news which is related: http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-15162241 Surely the knock on effect will be the need to reduce ticket prices and also players wages? Unfortunately Hafina If SKY pay outs were reduced it would only increase the gulf between those with good revenue already or rich owners. Man City could still afford to pay their players as could Chelsea. The Sky money is the only thing that keeps us going at the moment and even then were using the tv money from years ahead of now. In reality though I'm sure that whatever actually comes out of this 1 case Sky will make sure they keep raking in the cash one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 i'd have fed mine to the dog many times if they did louis I have been told the dinner is in the dog a couple of times but my season ticket, grounds for divorce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 IMO more needs to be done to improve our new, young fanbase. More insentives for young (or older) parents, who can't always afford to take the kids to the game every week. Cheap tickets and specified 'deal days' where Wigan at home has free entry for under 10's (on purchase of an adult ticket) for an example. 50,000 isn't too far ahead, but i think thats a maximum, even with CL credentials (which we don't have). In a 50,000 seater stadium, I reckon having a good season we'd only average about 43,000 approx. The DErby, United and a couple others would get big-end gates, but nothing that fills us to the brim. The stadium would have to be something special, and like others have said in threads yester-year, a Kings dock style stadium would pull in the younger fans (in my opinion) whereas the Kirby 'effort' would satisfy only the older folk, with its 'trying to be traditional' shape. Lots of lights, shiny bits and tv's get the youngns interested, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 You is like proppa down wiv da kids Ten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 You have to be Cod man, I just think in this day and age, its just as important to attract the new fans aswell as satisfy the current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Family prices are a good thing - or any scheme for 'Lads and Dads' (or daughters). Trouble is, the clubs rely quite a bit on matchday income - although it's not always the single largest source of revenue, it's a significant one - so the 'deals' only seem to happen when they know they're unlikely to get a good crowd without it. I'm a season ticket holder, but I know many who have to pick and choose their games now - mostly because of cost and sometimes because of work etc. Not sure about parking at Everton, but it's 10 quid at City - which I think is too much. I manage to get a spot for 5 quid, but still, it all adds up :-( Totally agree at good transport links - for a modern stadium, with higher capacity - it's an absolute must, and I think this is why local councils like the idea of stadiums in run down areas to help subsidise their transport ideas. 50K seems doable to me. I don't want to draw massive comparisons, but I have been doing some research and ALL TIME attendances for City and Everton are night on identical, and average attendances, by and large have been similar too. Our average of late is 47K, and I'm pretty sure Everton would manage the same if things on the pitch were good, and the prices right. On the radio today were a couple of Coventry fans who expressed their problem as having a ground that was TOO big. That's a real danger I think - being over ambitious and building a flash stadium for 65-75K and it not being close to full. 50-55K would seem about right I would guess, and of course, in theory, a ground designed for expansion should it ever be needed (something I'm told Reading have 'built in' to their ground. To boost match day revenue by 40-50% would be great for Everton. It would make a significant difference to buying power (you'd hope) but also get some feel good factor back on matchdays with a rip roaring crowd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 You have to be Cod man, I just think in this day and age, its just as important to attract the new fans aswell as satisfy the current. Yes I do agree with that. New fans are the lifeblood of the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redside Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think Liverpool could fill on a weekly basis 60-70 season ticket waiting list is just over 70k people waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) With lower prices, I could see Everton averaging 60k+ I think Liverpool could perhaps get 80k providing fans could easily access the stadium. Edited October 4, 2011 by Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 We're going to fill the stadium with money, Louis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 We're going to fill the stadium with money, Louis? Only monopoly money though, real stuff is rarer than rocking horse droppings around Goodison......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) 80K is a lot to ask. Very few clubs could get that. And let's not forget, the Northwest is MASSIVELY well supported. When you consider Liverpool, Everton, United, City, Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan (that's another 4 blokes) et al... it's a minor miracle. It's all very well for your Barcelonas and Madrids with only 2 or 3 close by teams, but the North West is amazing. London's impressive too, but per capita, the North West is probably already the best supported region in Europe (possibly the world?) As for ticket pricing, it's a real fine balance: 60,000 fans @ 10 quid = 600K 40,000 fans @ 20 quid = 800K 30,000 fans @ 30 quid = 900K For most clubs - there's not a lot of incentive to lower the prices is there? There's simply more money to be make from them squeezing more out of the core fanbase. That said - there are other factors (like catering and merchandise extra policing costs).. 80,000 fans @ 8 quid = 640K + average spend of 5 quid per person = 1040K 60,000 fans @ 10 quid = 600K + average spend of 5 quid per person = 900K 40,000 fans @ 20 quid = 800K + average spend of 5 quid per person = 1100K 30,000 fans @ 30 quid = 900K + average spend of 5 quid per person = 1150K That paints a very different picture. Imagine... 8 quid a ticket? Now... IF it was your business.... be honest, would you hold out for 80,000 fans and charge them 8 quid, OR would to go with a much more 'certain' fanbase of 30,000 and fleece them? It would seem that every single club in the Premiership has opted to stick with the 'fleece the solid fan base' model. They know we're mugs. Edited October 4, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 We're going to fill the stadium with money, Louis? I think that has a near myth-status now to be honest. I don't think there's much the club could do to increase revenue other than commercial aspects. Look at the Kirkby predictions, average of £47k attendance expected and it was expected to bring in £6million more than Goodison a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think that has a near myth-status now to be honest. I don't think there's much the club could do to increase revenue other than commercial aspects. Look at the Kirkby predictions, average of £47k attendance expected and it was expected to bring in £6million more than Goodison a year. Average now is (say) 36K.... 47K extra at 20 games a season is 940K extra spectators. 30 quid a ticket is about 28 million extra in matchday revenues. Of course, it's not ALL profit, and there's extra policing etc, but let's half it... that's 14 million extra a year minimum. Possibly those figures took into account paying for the actual stadium too... in which case, perhaps they'd only be 6 million better off (BUT they'd have a new stadium too!). There's also other factors with the stadium - better sponsorship / concert events / improved image etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think that has a near myth-status now to be honest. I don't think there's much the club could do to increase revenue other than commercial aspects. Look at the Kirkby predictions, average of £47k attendance expected and it was expected to bring in £6million more than Goodison a year. Lol you misunderstand me, you said we'd get £60K in the new stadium, i.e. money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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