billyaus Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 So your all saying at that point of time when suarez was having a seizure you didn't want to strangle him and tell him to grow pair and he's ruining this great game called footbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 A distinct lack of restraint, respect, compassion, morals, discipline, decency, upbringing, education, etc etc. Sorry Beardy, but on this occasion I feel trying to understand why somebody does this sort of thing should take a back seat to complete condemnation. Once people think it's ok to do what they want, or react how they feel, they have no place in a civilised society, which is based entirely on standards they are unable to grasp. It's the reason prisons are full. That is my whole point I have condemned it, I have not condoned it, I know behaviour like that has no place in society but the points you illustrated show why people do what they do, and that is your understanding, and that is why I understand why they do it. Every action has a reason behind it that is all I am saying. In a psychological context "Every cause is the effect of some cause or causes; or that everything is not only determinate but causally determined....if true, it holds not only for all things that have existed or occurred but for all things that we do or ever will do" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Mr BlueSky I thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 That man just tried to hit the other man in the face with a coin, but I can clearly understand why he did it ....................... hmmm. No! Being able to differentiate between right and wrong is the only understanding needed. You can't for a second look at the events that take place in a football match, and attempt to hold it with high enough importance that it should make one man want to attack another. It's a game of football for crying out loud. Anybody who thinks it is anything more needs to stand back and ask themselves if they are making the most of their lives. There is plenty in the world to feel upset about without football taking precedence. Go tell a Schindler Jew that Suarez spoiled your weekend, or a starving African kid that the referee made you angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Totally agree with Avinalaff, 'understand' is completely the wrong word and used in the wrong context. I can't 'understand' why someone shoots or stabs someone or anything The Beard has listed. I'm not and have not said anywhere that he is condoning it, but as I see it there is nothing to. 'understand' why these morons have done this. If my wife calls me a twat, and I punch her in the face, would you 'understand' that? I would hope not, it is simply a stupid morainic Thing to do, in fact I for one will never 'understand' why anybody would shoot, stab, throw coins or whatever, and no I'm not perfect, but I know the difference between right & wrong. So sorry but I could never understand why people would do this. Edited October 3, 2011 by mogsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 my view is simple really, since when was it the Liverpool way to get a fellow pro sent off? Suarez is a disgrace, and i can understand why everyone was so wound up, does'nt mean that what they did was right though, its that scally mentality coming into play again, and i hate to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 So your all saying at that point of time when suarez was having a seizure you didn't want to strangle him and tell him to grow pair and he's ruining this great game called footbal No, I personally think the ref & the FA are more to blame than suarez for allowing this to happen in our game without reprimand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) So your all saying at that point of time when suarez was having a seizure you didn't want to strangle him and tell him to grow pair and he's ruining this great game called footbal wanted to shout at him / tell him to grow a pair yes. Anything more than that no. Edited October 3, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 If we bring in retrospective punishment for people who dive and try and influence referees decisions then it will soon stop. Start docking teams points for constant cheating and we will see an end to it. The case for video evidence is getting stronger all the time. Each team gets 3 shouts to challenge the following: ball over the line, penalty shouts, and cards. If the challenge is correct then they keep the challenge. If a player has taken a dive then they get carded. It will stop the pathetic crowding round and influencing the refs decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 well i found out yesterday my cousin (blue) got beaten up by a bunch of lads (reds) on saturday night. a nice bit of banter about the game got out of hand, and now his kids are looking at their dad with his jaw wired and his eyes bruised up. its just a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Those sort of idiots would be out kicking someone else at the slightest excuse. It's not about football to that sort of person - football's just another reason to kick off. Those are the same sorts that kick off over a spilled pint / look at their girlfriend / they don't like your car etc etc. The world's going mad. It really is. I deplore violence and anybody who thinks it's ok should be hung, drawn and quartered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 well i found out yesterday my cousin (blue) got beaten up by a bunch of lads (reds) on saturday night. a nice bit of banter about the game got out of hand, and now his kids are looking at their dad with his jaw wired and his eyes bruised up. its just a game. Absolutely stupid. I hope your cousin is better soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Those sort of idiots would be out kicking someone else at the slightest excuse. It's not about football to that sort of person - football's just another reason to kick off. Those are the same sorts that kick off over a spilled pint / look at their girlfriend / they don't like your car etc etc. The world's going mad. It really is. I deplore violence and anybody who thinks it's ok should be hung, drawn and quartered. Exactly. The behaviour we saw on Saturday is fundamentally what is wrong with society. There is always an excuse for doing something, being wronged somehow makes it acceptable to lash out and use violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 well i found out yesterday my cousin (blue) got beaten up by a bunch of lads (reds) on saturday night. a nice bit of banter about the game got out of hand, and now his kids are looking at their dad with his jaw wired and his eyes bruised up. its just a game. What happened to the sorts of Derbies I remember as a kid? Good light hearted banter and nothing more. I dont think its rose tinted specs, it just was a much better atmosphere without this underlying current of anger and animosity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 There was a time when we used to laugh at the foreign players (abroad) diving and doing the amateur dramatics - but it's now rife in our own game and with our own players too. The FIFA have had 40 years of it (since I can recall it really starting to happen) and they've done nothing about it. Time and again we've seen the 'clutching your face' after someone's tapped them - making it look like a punch or headbutt. And FIFA have not done a thing. There was even a cracker by a Brazilian who got kicked in the buts with a ball, and then went down clutching his face.... no punishment at all. Those sorts of actions are arguably WORSE than the original crime. But how many of us boo our own players when they do it? (if you don't think it ever happens in your own team, you're deluded). - that said, some players are reknowned for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 There needs to be some punishment introduced for play acting. In the Sin Bin in football thread a good point was made, something along the lines of both players should be sin binned (in saturdays case Rodwell and Suarez) whilst it is sorted, it might prevent some of the play acting if they knew they would be punished too. I dunno if it would work but diving is a blight on the game. In todays game how many times would Maradona have thrown himself to the ground? That goal would never have been scored. He wasnt the same player at Italia 90 as he had learnt to dive and didnt stay on his feet anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftaylor Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 If we bring in retrospective punishment for people who dive and try and influence referees decisions then it will soon stop. Start docking teams points for constant cheating and we will see an end to it. The case for video evidence is getting stronger all the time. Each team gets 3 shouts to challenge the following: ball over the line, penalty shouts, and cards. If the challenge is correct then they keep the challenge. If a player has taken a dive then they get carded. It will stop the pathetic crowding round and influencing the refs decision. It doesn't need to be exactly like American Football- but I agree completely. The fourth official does absolutely nothing all game other than listening to the manager's whinging. Give him a tv like the rest of us have- if he sees a dive or a red card that wasn't, have him use his handy dandy microphone too inform the referee he got it wrong. Simple... it might be a little awkward at times imagine Rodwell coming back out of the tunnel and Everton back to 11 men after 5 minutes. But wouldn't that be better/fairer than losing him for the entire game? What is the ref trying to pretend that he didn't make a bad call? Im sure he knew at half time he got it wrong- there is no reason that he shouldn't be able to rescind a card after he has given it or give a card if he has missed the foul after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Again Laffo that is my point I can differentiate That man just tried to hit the other man in the face with a coin, but I can clearly understand why he did it ....................... hmmm. No! Being able to differentiate between right and wrong is the only understanding needed. You can't for a second look at the events that take place in a football match, and attempt to hold it with high enough importance that it should make one man want to attack another. It's a game of football for crying out loud. Anybody who thinks it is anything more needs to stand back and ask themselves if they are making the most of their lives. There is plenty in the world to feel upset about without football taking precedence. Go tell a Schindler Jew that Suarez spoiled your weekend, or a starving African kid that the referee made you angry. Again Laffo mate that is my point, you are actually agreeing in essence about understanding. Totally agree with Avinalaff, 'understand' is completely the wrong word and used in the wrong context. I can't 'understand' why someone shoots or stabs someone or anything The Beard has listed. I'm not and have not said anywhere that he is condoning it, but as I see it there is nothing to. 'understand' why these morons have done this. If my wife calls me a twat, and I punch her in the face, would you 'understand' that? I would hope not, it is simply a stupid morainic Thing to do, in fact I for one will never 'understand' why anybody would shoot, stab, throw coins or whatever, and no I'm not perfect, but I know the difference between right & wrong. So sorry but I could never understand why people would do this. Of course I would understand why you hit her, she has belittled you/ hurt you/ humiliated you and you retaliated because, like I said earlier, one action causally determines another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Human beings go through the same emotions, what seperates the reaction to those emotions is the ability to know the difference and care about what is right and what is wrong. Some clearly do not care, call them thick, unable to control their emotions - whatever. There is no excuse for any of the behaviours and apparent chants and if true the disgraceful gestures which I can't even bring myself to write down (hillsboro related) - i seriously hope they were untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 well i found out yesterday my cousin (blue) got beaten up by a bunch of lads (reds) on saturday night. a nice bit of banter about the game got out of hand, and now his kids are looking at their dad with his jaw wired and his eyes bruised up. its just a game. All the best to your cousin man Those sort of idiots would be out kicking someone else at the slightest excuse. It's not about football to that sort of person - football's just another reason to kick off. Those are the same sorts that kick off over a spilled pint / look at their girlfriend / they don't like your car etc etc. The world's going mad. It really is. I deplore violence and anybody who thinks it's ok should be hung, drawn and quartered. made me giggle that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Of course I would understand why you hit her, she has belittled you/ hurt you/ humiliated you and you retaliated because, like I said earlier, one action causally determines another. Unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Unbelievable He doesn't mean what you think he means. 'Understand' doesn't mean 'Empathetic' it just means he can grasp the stupid twisted logic behind it. No excuse, but you can still 'grasp' why. The 'understanding' might be as simple as "I understand you're a pisshead and bully who has to knock someone around'. That's the point he's making. It's a tricky term 'understand' and if you interpret it a certain way it sounds like there's empathy (or sympathy) for it. There isn't. There's a reason these morons do what they do - no matter how twisted it is to the average sensible bloke. Grasping the 'reasoning' in their twisted minds is what he means by 'understanding'. I've just got to defend him on this one - cos I know precisely what he's trying to say it's getting a bad reception - unfairly. Edited October 3, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 what my point is they are already winning 2-0 why the need to highlight the plastic bottle and coin these are grown men why not just kick the bottle out the way,instead they are both insenscing the fans even more....yes the ref caused all the trouble by sending rodwell off which was instigated by suarez diving. avinalaff you must have a big halo over your head you must never have done anything wrong in your life. the rubbish that was thrown was probably done by kids. The scoreline is irrelevant. Bellamy didn't make much a play about at all really. He'd be quite within his right to run around the pitch parading the bottles thrown. Perhaps IF a few more Everton fans had pointed the finger at the culprit, Everton could have turned the image around in moments. Now this isn't an Everton dig - I've seen similar at most clubs (including my own) - people do stuff, and not many are prepared to confront them, or 'grass' them up. There's not greater wind up merchant than Bellamy, but that doesn't make bottle throwing acceptable, and it doesn't make anybody who brings it to the attention of the ref, or tv a bad guy. Might not be a popular view on an Everton board right now, but those are the facts in a supposedly civilised society and / or any fan with class. I'm sure you agree deep down, no matter how much a git you think a player is - you have to rise above it. You just have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 what my point is they are already winning 2-0 why the need to highlight the plastic bottle and coin these are grown men why not just kick the bottle out the way,instead they are both insenscing the fans even more....yes the ref caused all the trouble by sending rodwell off which was instigated by suarez diving. avinalaff you must have a big halo over your head you must never have done anything wrong in your life. the rubbish that was thrown was probably done by kids. I'm just sitting here shaking my head in disbelief mate. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 He doesn't mean what you think he means. 'Understand' doesn't mean 'Empathetic' it just means he can grasp the stupid twisted logic behind it. No excuse, but you can still 'grasp' why. The 'understanding' might be as simple as "I understand you're a pisshead and bully who has to knock someone around'. That's the point he's making. It's a tricky term 'understand' and if you interpret it a certain way it sounds like there's empathy (or sympathy) for it. There isn't. There's a reason these morons do what they do - no matter how twisted it is to the average sensible bloke. Grasping the 'reasoning' in their twisted minds is what he means by 'understanding'. I've just got to defend him on this one - cos I know precisely what he's trying to say it's getting a bad reception - unfairly. I dont neccessarily think that 'understand' is a tricky term but your explanation pretty much hits the nail on the head I just wonder how many of the people who are getting confused by this have ever witnessed just how emotionally charged a derby is in the aftermath of such a percieved injustice Myself and Beard have stated many times that we dont condone what happened so why people cant grasp that I dont know. I hope the culprits are caught and banned. However I am going to cause more outrage now and say that I dont agree that they should all get a life ban. Is it really fitting for a young kid to get a life ban for tossing an empty plastic bottle in a moment of madness? Call it a crime of passion if you will. I agree they should be banned to teach them a lesson but a life ban? no way However throwing coins thats another matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Come off it!!! You have to get heavy on these idiots. Life ban and criminal record IMO. It's mind sets like these fans that have people throwing bricks off bridges randomly. Yes I understand anger, I really do. However making the decision to throw a coin is stupid and warrants punishment. A coin in the eye could cause serious damage and I do not wish to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Grasping the 'reasoning' in their know precisely what he's trying to say it's getting a bad reception - unfairly. Hold on, the point of a forum is to air our views, and if we disagree, then we disagree, there is no witch hunt against The Beard', I just don't agree with his or your use of the word 'understand' v. un·der·stood (-std), un·der·stand·ing, un·der·stands v.tr. 1. To perceive and comprehend the nature and significance of; grasp. See Synonyms at apprehend. 2. To know thoroughly by close contact or long experience with: That teacher understands children. 3. a. To grasp or comprehend the meaning intended or expressed by (another): They have trouble with English, but I can understand them. b. To comprehend the language, sounds, form, or symbols of. 4. To know and be tolerant or sympathetic toward: I can understand your point of view even though I disagree with it. 5. To learn indirectly, as by hearsay: I understand his departure was unexpected. 6. To infer: Am I to understand you are staying the night? 7. To accept (something) as an agreed fact: It is understood that the fee will be 50 dollars. 8. To supply or add (words or a meaning, for example) mentally. v.intr. 1. a. To have understanding, knowledge, or comprehension. b. To have sympathy or tolerance. That's the definitions I've found and I still can't relate it to the actions mentioned previously. Yes I can know they threw coins, it's because they are idiots, I know they are idiots but I cannot understand why they did it or why they or idiots. And as mentioned before I don't think and have stated that I can see The beard doesn't condone it, but the the use of understand I think is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 what my point is they are already winning 2-0 why the need to highlight the plastic bottle and coin these are grown men why not just kick the bottle out the way,instead they are both insenscing the fans even more....yes the ref caused all the trouble by sending rodwell off which was instigated by suarez diving. avinalaff you must have a big halo over your head you must never have done anything wrong in your life. the rubbish that was thrown was probably done by kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 However I am going to cause more outrage now and say that I dont agree that they should all get a life ban. Is it really fitting for a young kid to get a life ban for tossing an empty plastic bottle in a moment of madness? Call it a crime of passion if you will. I agree they should be banned to teach them a lesson but a life ban? no way Come off it!!! You have to get heavy on these idiots. Life ban and criminal record IMO. More than forty years ago at a non-league match my brother, who was about 10/11 at the time, hit the ref with a paper cup (half-time Bovril) that he'd folded into a solid missile for the purpose when we ran onto the pitch at end (it was allowed back then). I watched the ref report the incident to a young PC as he walked down the tunnel and saw the policeman coming after us...my main concern was that as our dad had been on a business trip to the US just previously we were both wearing identical New York Mets baseball jackets and I was worried I'd get collared due to mistaken identity . Anyway, policeman caught up with us outside the ground, hand on my bros shoulder, all sorted very quickly. Similar to kids throwing plastic bottles I think. Life ban and a criminal record? Bit draconian for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Not reading the rest of the pages, only went over page 1, but i agree with Dunc and Beard. Don't condone it but even when that cheating fuck-wit got back to his feet after rolling around as if he par-took in a 'Jigsaw' trap, even I wanted to throw something. I didn't, because i was in 'The gods' and the oxygen tanks up there were getting thin on the ground, so i had to conserve my energy. So as they've said, i don't condone it but that moment of instant rage is quite apparent and i'm lucky enough to control my emotions. Whereas others can't and react before thinking. My first thought was, "what object could reach the pitch from here" and then my second thought was "Bloody idiots, still throwing stuff, we're gonna get fined here and for a club with no money, we could realy do without it". That's my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.