Moyes

[Matt]

--------------Mo

-----Rodwell-----Barkley

 

----Gueye---------McFadden/Bily

----------Vellios

Short a few players there Paul, you that confident? Edited December 5, 2011 by Matt

[marcus jones]

Gotta agree whole hearted with this, have read plenty given billy, saha and Cahill grief. But ultimately it's down to the manager how the team plays, he picks the players and sets out the tactics, the players have to do what he says.

That's why off the cuff flair players do not fit into his game plan, pack the midfield, get it out wide for the cross into the box, why not just press them higher up the pitch, harass them all over, play Vellios as the spear head with Barkley straight up behind him, Speed, it's all about speed going forward, the boys in the middle of the park are not looking to slide the ball forward for anyone to run on to because we go forward too slow, and so the opp defenders got all the spaces covered. The Arse will kill us with pace and one touch passing going forward, you watch RvP pull our centre halves out of position.......... it's gonna get ugly........... you have been warned.

[EFC-Paul]

Short a few players there Paul,  you that confident?

 

Haha just went from the middle up couldn't be arsed

[Mogsy]

The Arse will kill us with pace and one touch passing going forward, you watch RvP pull our centre halves out of position.......... it's gonna get ugly........... you have been warned.

 

Yeap, very very very worried about the result

[adziom]

Re: Strikers

 

Never has Jermaine Beckford looked such a valuable asset for this club... £3M for a striker who scored ten goals last season without playing week in, week out? Absolute joke when "20 goal a season" strikers are going for £20-50 Million.

[EFC-Paul]

Beckford was a money earner from the word go and from a buisness point of view a good deal for the club. I'd have liked to have kept hold of him to see how he faired but by the sounds of how he's playing we made a good move.

 

I'd go with Vellios up top with Gueye and possibly Faddy playing off him either side.

[adziom]

Offer me £3M or a striker that adds some pace and variety to our front line, even if he isn't the best striker in the PL or even the Championship, and I'll take the striker any time. Vellios and Beckford could have been a worthwhile partnership in my opinion.

[Avinalaff]

The fear I have with Beckford being sold is that it sends a clear message to anybody else that could join us on a free.

 

'Join Everton - so we can sell you for a profit'.

 

Beckford could have joined a number of Premiership clubs, but is now playing for Leicester.

[flaminfox]

I honestly can't stand that every time we get defeated suddenly tons of threads pop up (more so on other websites) about sacking David Moyes and change is needed. I can give a 90% guarentee that If anybody else had come in we would be near the bottom of the league every season and fearing religation. The 1% is is there for the possibility of a manager that controls the club and find an new rich owner himself (which is very unlikely thus it is 1%)

Under Moyes we have played our greatest football and I am absolutely positive that we will hit form and he will find a solution so all the people calling out for "change" will bite their tongues.

[Matt]

Re: Strikers

 

Never has Jermaine Beckford looked such a valuable asset for this club... £3M for a striker who scored ten goals last season without playing week in, week out? Absolute joke when "20 goal a season" strikers are going for £20-50 Million.

Completely agree, but apparently his attitude wasnt good enough

[smeghead1]

Completely agree, but apparently his attitude wasnt good enough

 

I heard that aswell Matt aparently him and the Yak thought they were the greatest players the club has ever had so didnt think they needed to put in the effort in training.

As for the need for a striker and the should we have kept one of the aforementioned if you have players who dont try and believe they are worthy of a start anyway its gonna cause unrest and maybe just maybe DM didnt want to rock the boat, after all the team spirit we have is there for all to see.

[SimonButtle]

I heard that aswell Matt aparently him and the Yak thought they were the greatest players the club has ever had so didnt think they needed to put in the effort in training.

As for the need for a striker and the should we have kept one of the aforementioned if you have players who dont try and believe they are worthy of a start anyway its gonna cause unrest and maybe just maybe DM didnt want to rock the boat, after all the team spirit we have is there for all to see.

he never seemed in a hurry to play Beckford anyway, maybe Moyes just did'nt fancy him, he is a striker after all.

[Hafnia]

I'm just really concerned with the Barkley situation, I believe moyes has handled him wrong.

 

The game at Blackburn, he had a couple of brain farts, apart from that was looking ok. Moyes took him off and he's been left out since. Now in all honesty that is going to play on his mind, fill him with doubt etc etc.

 

He is 18, a great age where you can take advantage of youthful up and at em mentality. Conversely he is also at an age where criticism stings more. I would rather have him say "Ross, get out there and play your game, play the percentages when we do not have much cover, but when you are up the field commit the man, have a go, take a shot" if we play him with rodders and fellaini he will have that support.

[SimonButtle]

I'm just really concerned with the Barkley situation, I believe moyes has handled him wrong.

 

The game at Blackburn, he had a couple of brain farts, apart from that was looking ok. Moyes took him off and he's been left out since. Now in all honesty that is going to play on his mind, fill him with doubt etc etc.

 

He is 18, a great age where you can take advantage of youthful up and at em mentality. Conversely he is also at an age where criticism stings more. I would rather have him say "Ross, get out there and play your game, play the percentages when we do not have much cover, but when you are up the field commit the man, have a go, take a shot" if we play him with rodders and fellaini he will have that support.

agree 100% haf, we have an 18 year old kid, who already is playing with the national U21's is coveted by Chelsea and Man U, he won't sit on the bench for much longer i reckon, if Moyes is not going to play him, he will just up and leave.

[adziom]

I don't know. He's young but not stupid. He's hardly going to move to Chelsea or United with the reason "I wasn't getting enough first team football at Everton". I would definitely like to see some more of Ross on the pitch though, he has proven already this season that he can deliver to the same level as anyone else in the squad given the chance, and the key point for me is that he is willing to try things in the final 3rd, instead of turning back and laying it off for somebody else to do something with it.

[SimonButtle]

I don't know. He's young but not stupid. He's hardly going to move to Chelsea or United with the reason "I wasn't getting enough first team football at Everton". I would definitely like to see some more of Ross on the pitch though, he has proven already this season that he can deliver to the same level as anyone else in the squad given the chance, and the key point for me is that he is willing to try things in the final 3rd, instead of turning back and laying it off for somebody else to do something with it.

are you serious? there is no loyalty in football anymore, if he thinks he can do better somewhere else he will do, like i said yesterday, Moyes needs to play this one very carefully imo

[Hafnia]

Yes - he is also at the age where he will listen to his agent who may whisper in his ears to get the payoff nice and early.

 

He has had Pearce stating a full cap is not far away?! Capello knows everything about him, we know enough to see that he has more creativity and the killer pass than anyone else in the team. Moyes worries me in his views that all players need to be defensive minded (Drenthe) - I would rather see Barkley lose the ball being tackled on a dribble or having a slide rule pass intercepted than seeing Jags lump it to an opponent.

[Avinalaff]

In an ideal world ................

 

"You were shit today ... you're dropped".

 

In a realistic world .............

 

"You were shit today. Hopefully you'll come good soon".

 

I think this is the reason so many bad performers are getting away with it at Everton. We don't have a squad in which we can rotate on form grounds. If Saha is poor, who do we replace him with? Answer ... a kid.

 

If Jags is poor, Duffy is next in line, but Duffy is out on loan. I say Duffy rather than Heitinga, because Heitinga is often being used in midfield, again, because we have no squad.

 

If Coleman has a bad day, where is our winger to replace him? ; and so it goes .........

 

Because of this, players are not on their guard, protecting their place with top class performances. Because of this, the esteem of the team is low, because the 'winning mentality' is not there, so confidence in your own ability, and that of your team mates falls.

 

Players seem to 'wonder' who they should give it to. Fellaini is probably our best asset at the moment, as he will take responsibility, but we used to have Mo, Arteta, and Pienaar to accept the ball. Now, our players seem to look to play it wide to Baines, or to Coleman, but where are the passes in the middle channels?

 

No matter who Moyes plays, it is the same, other than Drenthe, who despite messing it up a lot will actually take responsibility.

 

We could do with an old pro in the centre, with experience, just to steady the ship. Barton would have been ideal, but we are too high and mighty these days to take a rebel on board. Vierra on loan could be perfect too. Fellaini is good, but he is young and inexperienced, despite his talents. Rodwell the same.

 

Moyes needs at least 6 players in the next window, in order to give him first team options, but this won't happen, as to get 6 players in of first team quality is too expensive, even for a bargain hunter like Moyes.

[Hafnia]

We have a player there in Barkley who can show the others what it is they should have been doing all along. If I was Ossie, Baines, Jags, Felli and I seen an 18 come onto the pitch and have a right old go, I would be thinking "Eh up, this whipper snapper is putting us to shame here, he isn't making sideways passes or lumping it, he's having a go, I gotta pull my finger out!"

 

Moyes has disciplined us to the point of being stifled of all creativity - he needs to give flair players like Drenthe and Barkley the opportunity to be let off the lead, allow the other players who may stay positionally disciplined like rodders and felli to do the dirty work. We need a mixture.

 

Regarding competition for places he has favourites, no two ways about it.

[Avinalaff]

So we are back to needing to be saved by children?

 

This surely emphasises the fact that Moyes has no senior players at his disposal, in order to play the style of football we all want. I'm all for the saying 'if you're good enough, you're old enough' but I'm also up for the saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear', and sadly, because of a lack of investment, our squad is starting to look like that sows ear, yet fans still expect a silk purse from Moyse.

 

Barkley should be a bonus. He shouldn't be the nucleus.

[StevO]

I dont want Moyes sacked, I just want him to be more diverse. Have a few new ideas, ten years of the same tactic is too long.

 

I also agree with people saying we dont have enough options upfront so hes playing with what hes got. But Moyes always says he decides who leaves and who comes, so he chose to sell his strikers, that was all his own choice if we believe what he says. So he must take the stick that comes with it.

[Avinalaff]

I dont want Moyes sacked, I just want him to be more diverse. Have a few new ideas, ten years of the same tactic is too long.

 

I also agree with people saying we dont have enough options upfront so hes playing with what hes got. But Moyes always says he decides who leaves and who comes, so he chose to sell his strikers, that was all his own choice if we believe what he says. So he must take the stick that comes with it.

 

Moyes is the most resourceful manager we've ever had in my years of supporting Everton Steve.

 

He has plenty of ideas.

 

He has 'zero' funding, but gets on with it. He is prepared to play a striker on the wing, a defender in midfield, 2 midfielders in attack, and so on.

 

I would like to challenge fans to contemplate the following:

 

List our team, and list the positions in football, and place each team member in the position you think they are naturally intended, i.e ..... 'Coleman = Right Back' Rodwell = Central Defence / your choice' etc etc. When you are finished, you will see that we have many players who are being asked to work where they weren't expecting. You will see just how many areas are not catered for. You will see just how much investment is needed to put the matter right, and you'll get a better picture of Moyes' dilemma.

[Mogsy]

So we are back to needing to be saved by children?

 

This surely emphasises the fact that Moyes has no senior players at his disposal, in order to play the style of football we all want. I'm all for the saying 'if you're good enough, you're old enough' but I'm also up for the saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear', and sadly, because of a lack of investment, our squad is starting to look like that sows ear, yet fans still expect a silk purse from Moyse.

 

Barkley should be a bonus. He shouldn't be the nucleus.

 

Does being 18 make him a child?? How old were Rooney, Bale and remember Giggs when they burst onto the scene and made huge impacts?

[Lowensda]

Wilshere

Fabregas

Rooney

Bale

Walcott

Henderson

Rodwell

Welbeck

Sturridge

 

As examples, all 18 (or under) when breaking into the first team. Never did them harm. If you're good enough, you're old enough.

[Avinalaff]

Does being 18 make him a child?? How old were Rooney, Bale and remember Giggs when they burst onto the scene and made huge impacts?

 

Yes, I think it does. Be aware he was 18 nly yesterday (happy Birthday Ross).

 

I think it's a bit early though to be using him in the same sentence as Ryan Giggs. Not even Rooney is on that level yet.

[Avinalaff]

Wilshere

Fabregas

Rooney

Bale

Walcott

Henderson

Rodwell

Welbeck

Sturridge

 

As examples, all 18 (or under) when breaking into the first team. Never did them harm. If you're good enough, you're old enough.

 

They weren't required to save their clubs. They were allowed to grow. The best thing Rooney did was get away. Barkley would be well advised to do the same.

[Romey 1878]

They weren't required to save their clubs. They were allowed to grow. The best thing Rooney did was get away. Barkley would be well advised to do the same.

 

 

Av, no one's asking them to save us though. It'd just be nice for Moyes to give a few of them a go in place of the senior players who clearly are not pulling their weight. There are a fair few of them who are stinking out Goodison each and every week and don't even look like they're putting the effort in. The youngsters would at least give the effort, and in Barkley's case we know he has the quality and hopefully this would show itself as well. They couldn't do worse than some of the shite that's been served up for us could they?

 

I'm not asking for a team full of kids, but to have them supplement the senior players who are pulling their weight so they have experienced players around them to help them grow. They can't grow getting splinters, we can't find out if they're good enough to play at this level if they're never thrown in at the deep end.

 

I also think it's totally the wrong message to send to any youngsters on our books that senior players can play like dog shit and it not put their place under threat when there are players who can replace them.

 

For someone who isn't all about the winning or finishing high up the league I thought you'd be the one championing dropping us dropping some of our donkeys for young bucks!

[StevO]

Moyes is the most resourceful manager we've ever had in my years of supporting Everton Steve.

 

He has plenty of ideas.

 

He has 'zero' funding, but gets on with it. He is prepared to play a striker on the wing, a defender in midfield, 2 midfielders in attack, and so on.

 

I would like to challenge fans to contemplate the following:

 

List our team, and list the positions in football, and place each team member in the position you think they are naturally intended, i.e ..... 'Coleman = Right Back' Rodwell = Central Defence / your choice' etc etc. When you are finished, you will see that we have many players who are being asked to work where they weren't expecting. You will see just how many areas are not catered for. You will see just how much investment is needed to put the matter right, and you'll get a better picture of Moyes' dilemma.

 

this is a squad he built, if he doesnt have the players in positions to suit then that must be his fault. he says players only leave on his say so after all.

 

yes he is resourcful in the transfer market, buying cheap and selling expensive. but i dont see these ideas you talk of. one formation and one style of play is not ideas in my mind, its one dimensional.

 

you have been supporting everton long enough, so you must know the glory days of yesteryear, we played some great great football under kendall in the 80's, im pretty sure he was resourceful too, he didnt buy a team of super stars. but he knew more than one way to play football.

[Mogsy]

 

 

Yes, I think it does. Be aware he was 18 nly yesterday (happy Birthday Ross).

 

I think it's a bit early though to be using him in the same sentence as Ryan Giggs. Not even Rooney is on that level yet.

 

Why not? I'm not comparing Barkley to the giggs that we have seen in his prime, I am comparing Barkley to the giggs who burst into the man utd team when he was 17 and SAF probably to a gamble with him, and yeah Man Utd where in a better state than we are but what's the difference? He's never gonna mature and get experience and improve his game unless he's played.

[Lowensda]

Av, no one's asking them to save us though. It'd just be nice for Moyes to give a few of them a go in place of the senior players who clearly are not pulling their weight. There are a fair few of them who are stinking out Goodison each and every week and don't even look like they're putting the effort in. The youngsters would at least give the effort, and in Barkley's case we know he has the quality and hopefully this would show itself as well. They couldn't do worse than some of the shite that's been served up for us could they?

 

I'm not asking for a team full of kids, but to have them supplement the senior players who are pulling their weight so they have experienced players around them to help them grow. They can't grow getting splinters, we can't find out if they're good enough to play at this level if they're never thrown in at the deep end.

 

I also think it's totally the wrong message to send to any youngsters on our books that senior players can play like dog shit and it not put their place under threat when there are players who can replace them.

 

For someone who isn't all about the winning or finishing high up the league I thought you'd be the one championing dropping us dropping some of our donkeys for young bucks!

 

BOOM.

 

this is a squad he built, if he doesnt have the players in positions to suit then that must be his fault. he says players only leave on his say so after all.

 

yes he is resourcful in the transfer market, buying cheap and selling expensive. but i dont see these ideas you talk of. one formation and one style of play is not ideas in my mind, its one dimensional.

 

you have been supporting everton long enough, so you must know the glory days of yesteryear, we played some great great football under kendall in the 80's, im pretty sure he was resourceful too, he didnt buy a team of super stars. but he knew more than one way to play football.

 

BOOM.

 

Why not? I'm not comparing Barkley to the giggs that we have seen in his prime, I am comparing Barkley to the giggs who burst into the man utd team when he was 17 and SAF probably to a gamble with him, and yeah Man Utd where in a better state than we are but what's the difference? He's never gonna mature and get experience and improve his game unless he's played.

 

POW.

 

BOOM BOOM POW!! Awesome. My thoughts mirror these.