Lowensda Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 BS we've been unconvincing at losing too. That's not good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I need Diazepam each time I read this thread. I can just see the 'End of the world is nigh' billboards around Goodison. I'd take 14th place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Only a matter of time before Everton get a sponsorship deal with the Samaritans! You're keeping them in business ;-) It's not like you're Leeds or anything!... it's not that bad - surely? Edited November 8, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I need Diazepam each time I read this thread. I can just see the 'End of the world is nigh' billboards around Goodison. I'd take 14th place. Spot on Av! Id take that, and maybe loosing some of the debt maybe, say 15mill via Felli? with 10mill going to moyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I need Diazepam each time I read this thread. I can just see the 'End of the world is nigh' billboards around Goodison. I'd take 14th place. Wouldnt that be contrary to our club motto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Planning permission for 'The End Of The World' was refused by the council. They said they had similar venues around the Goodison Park area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Spot on Av! Id take that, and maybe loosing some of the debt maybe, say 15mill via Felli? with 10mill going to moyes? if we got £15m id be very surprised of the bank let them keep so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 They are relevant though. Very relevant in fact. If a team like Swansea (newly promoted, little money spent) can play with the attitude that their players are showing, that's how we should be playing with approaching and during a game, do you not think its weird that they're not?? Or the reasons why they're not? If you're using that anology, Swansea are a greyhound with 3 legs missing, but they're still making a bloody good go at trying to win....even if it is flapping around on the floor. This made me chuckle a bit but your quite right. True, but if that was a boxing match the ref would have stopped it before the 80th minute - we were shocking. The other wins 3-1 versus Wigan was flattering - we toiled and looked flat and without any ideas till drenthe and vellios did the work. The other 3-1 versus Fulham, again massive fortune, the game should have been dead and buried when Zamora skied an open goal. In short, where we have won we have done so unconvincingly - we have shown worrying form and it does not show any signs of getting better. Seriously seriously worried. Whilst I don't think we will get relegated I can see about 14th place being the finish. I had a little tot up of the points we 'deserved' to have got with our performances this season and I gave us 7 or 8 points! I deserved to beat Villa, did just enough against Wigan, and enough for a point against Utd and then possibly one against QPR or Fulham, as while we were battered for the majority of the game in the later, we did create come decent openings early on. I know football doesnt work on what you 'deserve' but personally i think we have done well to get the points we have so far as the performances havent warranted it. With regards to the 14th place finish. I wouldnt mind if we gave our all in every game (or near enough) and 14th was the best this side could muster. However, if it turns out we finish 14th by continuing to play like this for the rest of the season then I will be pissed off because we have so much more to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Wouldnt that be contrary to our club motto? I'm not the club. It's fine writing 'Nothing but the best is good enough' on your badge, but it's not very realistic, to say the least. We might consider changing it to 'Money can't buy me love'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Only a matter of time before Everton get a sponsorship deal with the Samaritans! You're keeping them in business ;-) It's not like you're Leeds or anything!... it's not that bad - surely? Oh god, I hope not! That was a tremendous fall from grace... Usually the beginning of the season for Everton is drinking season, and the end is party season (which still involves drinking ), but I'm feeling very pessimistic as of late that the end may not be like the rest of the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Oh god, I hope not! That was a tremendous fall from grace... Usually the beginning of the season for Everton is drinking season, and the end is party season (which still involves drinking ), but I'm feeling very pessimistic as of late that the end may not be like the rest of the years. I think you'll be fine - like you say, notorious bad starters and good finishers. That said, no club should ever think it is immune - could happen to any of us (and probably will). If our owners at City get board - we're up the creek. Same at United and Liverpool and many other clubs. Partly why I think fans should really look at other clubs and criticise the good/bad luck - it's just stuff thrust upon the fans (good and bad). Chelsea and City fans didn't choose their money (but they're enjoying having it), just as Leeds fans didn't choose to nosedive. I suppose it's all part of what makes the game so good - what used to be a small ups and downs for fans is turning into a bit of a roller coaster for some, and just depression for others. Edited November 30, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 http://www.bluekipper.com/fans/mickey_blue_eyes-41/b3551-everton_team_formations.html Agree with what this fella has to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think deep down we all know that staying in the prem is the most important thing for everton, I think the problem we have is that we had a taste of everton being a better than average club comparied to the almost travesty of the 90's, and understandable we wanted to build on our recent form, which hasn't happened. I for one think we have a squad that could potentially do well in the league(Europa place) or a cup, but it seems Moyes is intent on keeping is in the prem at the cost of results. We are to strong to go down, I think people would like to see us go for it, let's see what happens, I don't think a 3 or 4 games of 4-4-2 or a more attacking display will damage our prem position if it goes a bit tits up in those matches, and I'm sure if I wasn't going well after 50-60 mins Moyes would have the foresight to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 http://www.bluekippe...formations.html Agree with what this fella has to say I started to agree with him but then thought he was talking out of his arse a little. He is right that formations & basic tactics dont really have that much of a dramatic effect on a game of football but you only have to look at how Dagleish has set his teams out against City & Chelsea to see that the way Moyes approached our games against these two was fundamentally flawed. Liverpool had a go and got the points they deserved. We sat back and also got we deserved, which was a beating. Yes blaming formations etc is too simplistic but suggesting it was the lack of funds & quality of squad that made the difference in those games is simply bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) Argh keep getting code. Moyes to blame, the article was BS. Obviously theres more to football than formations, but Moyes was negative in his style of football, his mentality. Edited November 29, 2011 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I started to agree with him but then thought he was talking out of his arse a little. He is right that formations & basic tactics dont really have that much of a dramatic effect on a game of football but you only have to look at how Dagleish has set his teams out against City & Chelsea to see that the way Moyes approached our games against these two was fundamentally flawed. Liverpool had a go and got the points they deserved. We sat back and also got we deserved, which was a beating. Yes blaming formations etc is too simplistic but suggesting it was the lack of funds & quality of squad that made the difference in those games is simply bollocks. How is that bollocks? Dalgish had over £120M of attacking options open to him Moyes had an ageing Cahill an out of sorts Saha and a 50p Greek kid and you seriously think thats irrelevant?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Anybody else thinks it's just a question of maths? I'm getting at the fact that is it better to have two draws out of three games or one win out of three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 How is that bollocks? Dalgish had over £120M of attacking options open to him Moyes had an ageing Cahill an out of sorts Saha and a 50p Greek kid and you seriously think thats irrelevant?? Moyes has built a good strong team team thanks to our chairman and board, they deserve better from him. We are regular top 7 contenders thanks to bill and co, surely you can't be grumbling at having two internationals up front? That team is good enough to have a go at any team. All moyes needs to do is sell rodwell and Barkley for £40m and it's problem solved? Wait there?!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) straight from the horses mouth http://www.liverpool...00252-29867124/ sorry, but thats simply not good enough for me, no way should our first aim be to secure 40 points, we are not Blackburn or Swansea or QPR, we should be looking to achieve as many points as we can, basically he is saying the focus is on avoiding relegation, sorry Davie i dont think thats good enough imo Edited November 30, 2011 by theprisoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 straight from the horses mouth http://www.liverpool...00252-29867124/ sorry, but thats simply not good enough for me, no way should our first aim be to secure 40 points, we are not Blackburn or Swansea or QPR, we should be looking to achieve as many points as we can, basically he is saying the focus is on avoiding relegation, sorry Davie i dont think thats good enough imo He's said similar in the past and it got right under my skin then, and it's got under my skin now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's said similar in the past and it got right under my skin then, and it's got under my skin now. The man just breeds negativity at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) I can see what hes doing. Its not about being negative, its about trying to set realistic expectations and take some of the pressure of the team. Still dont agree with him though... Edited November 30, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I can see what hes doing. Its not about being negative, its about trying to set realistic expectations and take some of the pressure of the team. Still dont agree with him though... I can see that too but I just think it sends the wrong message to his players, and shows he has as little faith in Saha as the majority of us do as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I can see what hes doing. Its not about being negative, its about trying to set realistic expectations and take some of the pressure of the team. Still dont agree with him though... My realistic expectations is that a manager who has run the club (albeit under tough financial constraints) for the past 10 years, is on £70k a week, who clearly has some tactical 'development' issues needs to understand that the team he has is more than good enough to offer a quality and level of performance which is better than the dross that has been served up so far. There are the likes of Wolves, Swansea, Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland, Fulham, QPR, West Brom, Newcastle in this league that I believe we have a superior first 11 to. Moyes negativity both in tactics and press conferences is shocking and a disgrace. I hope he watched Liverpool last night, as much as I hate them, they have served up excellent consecutive games against quality opposition which should make Moyes ashamed of himself. I don't care that they spent £120m - realistically they bought no much better than what we have. It's the tempo and quality of football that is being played by the reds that concerns me - we won't be like that under moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 My realistic expectations is that a manager who has run the club (albeit under tough financial constraints) for the past 10 years, is on £70k a week, who clearly has some tactical 'development' issues needs to understand that the team he has is more than good enough to offer a quality and level of performance which is better than the dross that has been served up so far. There are the likes of Wolves, Swansea, Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland, Fulham, QPR, West Brom, Newcastle in this league that I believe we have a superior first 11 to. Moyes negativity both in tactics and press conferences is shocking and a disgrace. I hope he watched Liverpool last night, as much as I hate them, they have served up excellent consecutive games against quality opposition which should make Moyes ashamed of himself. I don't care that they spent £120m - realistically they bought no much better than what we have. It's the tempo and quality of football that is being played by the reds that concerns me - we won't be like that under moyes. Boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Let's not confuse negativity with realism. Moyes knows the current situation isn't great, and sets his priorities to suit the said situation. He has orders from above too, just like any other manager, and in my opinion we need to realise that staying in the Premiership is priority number 1. Everything else is a bonus. There is an element of narcissism and grandiosity amongst some of our fans that needs to be kept in check. We're not the mighty club that we like to portray ourselves as, but a club that is struggling to survive. The sooner we stop blaming Moyes and come to terms with our situation the quicker the pain will disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 The primary role of the board and for that matter Mr Moyes is to ensure Everton remain in business. That is above ALL else. Higher positions, trophies, wins instead of draws, entertaining play et al ALL come behind survival. Yes Everton are a big club, and 'survival' doesn't mean I'm categorising them alongside Portsmouth (for instance), but still, keeping the business afloat is the number one task. Since it's clear that Moyes has next to nothing to spend, and hasn't spent much historically, that puts him on a par with the very bottom clubs in the division. No matter HOW big Everton are as a club, or how great their support, HE (Moyes) is only at the same advantage as the lowly teams at the bottom - without a penny to spend. The only thing in his favour that (arguably) help him are that Everton are a more attractive club to join (so he can win over players that the lesser clubs couldn't) and playing AT GP (in theory) offers a more exciting experience than Wigan. He's competing with Wolves, Blackburn and Wigan (in terms of financial resources available to him), and he's winning by a country mile! (PLEASE do not read this as 'Everton = Wolves = Blackburn = Wigan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 My opinions on the board and Moyes could be seen as contradictory so I need to put straight where I stand on both counts: Board: You don't really need to ask (surely), extremely dissapointing. The fact that Moyes seems to excel in working at the lower end of the market in getting players in and selling at a higher value than original purchase (more often than not) has covered a massively incompetent bunch who would face a bigger revolt than they are if it wasn't for the man who has run us for the past 10 years. Moyes: Where would we be without him? He has taken an old bunch of ex superstars on their retirement salaries and developed a team that for a while threatened to break the top 4 as a permanent fixture - despite irritating dithering, negativity and strange favouritism to players he transformed us . For that I will be forever grateful. Roll on a few years.... The board are still the same incompetent bunch. Moyes has had to try and evolve the team that broke top 4, a few of his bargains are old, sold or not good enough. His tactics have not evolved, he seems to struggle in getting the best out of a one dimensional team who are defensive, he doesn't have the money to bring in the vital sparks that can make things happen. He has drenthe - but chooses to highlight his lack of defensive focus (as opposed to highlighting someone like Nevilles or Jags point it and lump it). Clearly his footballing principles are not likely to change, with new young bucks on the scene like Lambert, Rodgers, Poyet etc, he is in danger of looking like a tactical dinosaur. We hope for more progression as a tactician, sadly he seems to have run out of ideas, reliant on certain players to drag a tired team through a season, predictable team set up and irrational shake ups. Hope i'm wrong but he seems very much tired and in need of a new challenge to change his outlook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 What he sais to the press and what he sais to the players are probably 2 very different things. Im sure that the players know what goals DM has for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 What he sais to the press and what he sais to the players are probably 2 very different things. Im sure that the players know what goals DM has for the team. What he says to the press is what gets communicated to the fans - and there lies the problem. Is he going to constantly whinge about City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc spending millions? Is he going to keep mentioning about the fact that we don't have a striker (despite him selling Yak, Vaughan, Beckford) bringing in an Argentinian who probably is not premiership standard? Because all we are getting is moans - let us do that!!! Whilst he can pick up £70k a week - he can at least try and be upbeat, show signs that he is working on routines and patterns of play. Whilst we continue to see the same stagnant, slow, defensive, hoofball brand of football he will continue to attract the irritation of fans who simply believe he should be doing better with the team he has. Come on Moyesy! You are better than this surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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