Moyes

[FanchesterCity]

 

A siege mentallity would come if we went into admin or went down - it's not going to just come from playing poorly and picking up the odd win to keep our heads above water.

 

It does matter why QPR fans gave great support because their recent success is the plain and obvious reason.

 

 

What I'm saying is... .it's too bloody late to start the siege mentality at that stage.

Start it now.

 

The more fans moan on the terraces (or don't turn up) the more it adds to negativity and it has an impact. What do you suggest, carry on knocking Moyes until he's on the brink?

 

I think it's you missing the point that the fans of clubs can make a huge difference in games (esp at home), and whilst it's the hardest thing to be enthusiastic watching dross sometimes, it's necessary.

 

How many times have we seen fans turning on the manager and team and they still go down? West Ham last year. Blackburn now. it happens all the time, and the moaning just makes it all worse.

[Avinalaff]

Kendall was our most succesful manager? Made some of the best signings in the clubs history. He never had an open cheque book. Managers barring a few notable exceptions have a shelf life at a club. Don't like Kendall as a person (met him and he was a grumpy prick, I was half way through blowing sunshine up his arse at a gentlemans dinner whilst getting an autograph and he snapped "just get on with it" - gutted) - but his everton career was excellent.

 

 

 

Folk forget he walked out in a huff twice because the club wouldn't give him money 2nd and 3rd time around. Without money Kendall was useless. It's partly because of his management that we hit the lows we did, despite the highs of the 80's. We should be glad to have a manager who has supported us through thick and thin, and not fled as soon as the good times ended like Howard.

[FanchesterCity]

Stick with Moyes - there's nobody likely to step in to do a better job, so you're stuck with him like it or lump it.

Might as well back your man to the hilt in that case.

 

If folks call for a change - who are you going to bring in? What guarantee is there they will do better?

 

The fans are starting to turn on him, and at a time the club need all the help they can get it's NOT the best idea to add a bit more pressure - Whenever that happens, it just gets messier and messier :-(

 

Things aren't THAT bad. You've played a lot of better (yes better) teams, and you have a lot of worse teams to play yet. You are certainly better than 1/3 of the league and as good as 1/3 of them.

[c1982]

 

 

What I'm saying is... .it's too bloody late to start the siege mentality at that stage.

Start it now.

 

The more fans moan on the terraces (or don't turn up) the more it adds to negativity and it has an impact. What do you suggest, carry on knocking Moyes until he's on the brink?

 

I think it's you missing the point that the fans of clubs can make a huge difference in games (esp at home), and whilst it's the hardest thing to be enthusiastic watching dross sometimes, it's necessary.

 

How many times have we seen fans turning on the manager and team and they still go down? West Ham last year. Blackburn now. it happens all the time, and the moaning just makes it all worse.

 

...and how is this siege mentality going to start? I'm a realist - for a siege mentallity to happen something must occur first! I can't just turn up against Wolves and decide 'right I'm going to promote a siege mentality today' - well I could, especially dressed as a Smurf but it's not going to happen - something needs to happen on the pitch or in the boardroom.

 

I'm not a Moyes basher so the underlined statement doesn't apply to me.

[Lowensda]

 

 

No one's saying Moyes should have us at the top of the league competing with the moneybags of the league now, so I don't know why you're even bringing it up. And no one is saying it's not hard on Moyes that we've lost some players.

 

What the problem many fans have with Moyes is his decision making, his tactics, his use of what players he does have, his unwillingness to change. Money doesn't come into that.

 

When we finished fourth did we really have, on paper, a squad capable of finishing fourth? Did we like shite! We got there on hard work, on getting our tactics spot on etc etc. We may not be able to compete off the field with a lot of the sides in the Premier League but there is no excuse not to compete on the field. Yes, other teams may have better players than us but all I'm asking for the management to send the players out there with a belief that they can win against any one. But it just seems rightnow that Moyes has lost belief in his players, maybe in himself.

 

I love Moyes for everything he's given us, I really do, but that's the past and the present is that we're right in the shit. Him and his players are collectively responsible for our poor position in the league, and our mostly dire football, and they are collectively responsible for fixing that.

 

exactly this.

 

And avin im making the point against the argument that we're ok in this position because we always start slow blah blah. But contrary to seasons past we've not taken the points against the teams we used to in this instance which to me, says we'll struggle come the back end of the season (based on previous argument).

Trust me. Im very aware that we've played the big teams!!

[c1982]

If folks call for a change - who are you going to bring in? What guarantee is there they will do better?

 

The fans are starting to turn on him, and at a time the club need all the help they can get it's NOT the best idea to add a bit more pressure - Whenever that happens, it just gets messier and messier :-(

 

The folk going to games aren't calling for the head of Moyes.

[Hafnia]

 

 

 

 

Folk forget he walked out in a huff twice because the club wouldn't give him money 2nd and 3rd time around. Without money Kendall was useless. It's partly because of his management that we hit the lows we did, despite the highs of the 80's. We should be glad to have a manager who has supported us through thick and thin, and not fled as soon as the good times ended like Howard.

 

Cor blimey Peter Reid anyone? £60k Kendall had to get the board to work wonders to sign him, bracewell, Steven, sharp, sheedy, southall, lineker, shall I stop there? Outstanding signings. The only one that was pricey was steven - lineker was more but proven, Steven cost £300k for potential.

[Avinalaff]

 

He has to take the rough with the smooth though Avin.

He took lots and lots of praise with the good times, he must also take it when the bad times are here too.

It happens in every other job, you get praise when you do well and you get stick when you do bad.

 

What makes you think he is doing bad Steve?

 

What is your expectation of him?

 

What is your expectation regarding a finishing position?

 

What obstacles are in his way in order to achieve your expectation?

[Avinalaff]

 

The folk going to games aren't calling for the head of Moyes.

 

That appears to be the case.

[Avinalaff]

exactly this.

 

And avin im making the point against the argument that we're ok in this position because we always start slow blah blah. But contrary to seasons past we've not taken the points against the teams we used to in this instance which to me, says we'll struggle come the back end of the season (based on previous argument).

Trust me. Im very aware that we've played the big teams!!

 

Other teams have strengthened. We are considerably weaker. In time, Moyes will get them to gel, and no doubt we'll get a top 10 finish this season if not better.

[J.P]

Sort it out Moyes, the team needs freshening up, I'd go with:

 

Howard

Neville

Jags

Lescott

Baines

Arteta

Rodwell

Felli

Pienaar

Dzeko

Saha.

 

Oh, wait.

[Avinalaff]

Sort it out Moyes, the team needs freshening up, I'd go with:

 

Howard

Neville

Jags

Lescott

Baines

Arteta

Rodwell

Felli

Pienaar

Dzeko

Saha.

 

Oh, wait.

 

You idiot. Don't you know anything? Howard is injured.

[Lowensda]

 

Other teams have strengthened. We are considerably weaker. In time, Moyes will get them to gel, and no doubt we'll get a top 10 finish this season if not better.

 

but they strengthened last year and the year before. And we didn't, so that argument is rubbish.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

You all do realise this happens every year though. It's been the same for the last what 4 seasons? We play shit, everyone thinks we won't get anywhere then we start and carry a good run because for some reason our team of players love being the underdog and can only perform when they know they have to.

 

Yes Moyes is negative, yes his tactics and substitutions are baffling at times, and yes we all feel we are playing badly. Newcastle however have had consistently the same back 5 since the start of the season, and as much as we weren't creeating a whole lot, noone has mentioned how well they defended, save for Alan Pardew. Who also admitted that at half time with us just having scored, at Goodison we probably would have won.

 

We have faced Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the last 6 games. That is an incredibly tough set of fixtures to get results from. However, we could have easily beaten liverpool were it not for jack getting sent off, we have played well in other matches, such as Villa. But if you look at the fixtures, we've had top play, contrasting what we have to come, I wouldn't be surprised if by christmas we are up to 9th or 8th and about 7 or 8 points behind 4/5th.

 

Of course Moyes is down because he can't get players, of course he's frustrated and of course so are we the fans because we're not playing as well as we can. But that one win, that one good game we play next, heads will rise. Players will look at other players with confidence. And im sure we will go on a run that will see us higher up the table and back in contention for europe.

 

every fucking year everyone gets on Moyes' back for the bad starts, and every year we recover. You may say "Well its not good enough" but trust me, no other manager in the world wants Moyes' task. Getting in the top ten every year with literally no money at all? We're lucky to have him. If he walks we're absolutely fucked. No manager will want to come here without knowing they can spend money. And we will get out of this. we know our starting eleven with all players fit and in form can beat almost anyone, the problem is they havent hit that form yet, but they will. They always do.

 

And if they don't do the job there paid for, is it ALL the manager's fault? We still should have beat Newcastle with the players on the field yesterday, regardless of tactics. But Newcastle did just enough to shut us out. Other teams, i doubt, will be able to manage the defensive display that they did.

 

 

100% agree

[FanchesterCity]

Everton aren't just 'not strengthening', they're getting weaker ever year. It's only by virtue of the fact that Moyes IS good and there's a couple of very good players that is keeping them relatively well positioned.

 

For the last 3 years, Everton have slowly been 'chipped' at.

 

If the league could be viewed in 3 sections (top, mid, bottom) - Everton would normally be expected to be in the top, but now they look firmly mid.

 

They have the potential (on a good day) to be at the top of the 'mid', but with any misfortune, they can easily be at the bottom of the 'mid'.

 

It's not where Everton belong as a top club, but it's a fair reflection of the team they now have. You just can't keep losing your top players and hoping for the best. I feel for Moyes.

 

Normally, it wouldn't matter so much, but in those last 3 years a few other clubs have totally stepped up their game (with money). It's nudged Villa and Everton in that middle group - which is crap for both clubs.

 

There's only so much you can do with 'great character' when other teams for spending 30 million on a single player. Even if overpriced, those players on the whole are simply better - and you can't compete easily with that.

 

Only two teams (from memory) have won the league in the last few years, and even since the inception of the PL, it's about 6 and one of those (Blackburn) was a clear indication that money is a massive factor.

 

I hate the fact that money has so much influence, but it's always been the case (just worse than ever now). With no money, even an all time top club like Everton can't perform miracles. Great club yes, Miracle workers no.

Edited November 6, 2011 by BlueSky

[Avinalaff]

but they strengthened last year and the year before. And we didn't, so that argument is rubbish.

 

Ten, our most creative players were Pienaar, Arteta, and Baines.

 

We lost both Pienaar and Arteta, which also affected Baines effectiveness. Take a strong look at how many other players we lost too, that weren't just first team players, but reserve.

 

It's not about previous years. We are weaker now. They are stronger yet again.

 

We have no money, yet when Moyes talks about getting 'free' players in, fans still moan. We looked at getting Barton in. Fans said "Huh, not him. pff.". We brought in Mcfadden. Fans go "Huh. We're scraping the bottom of the barrell".

 

Moyes can't win. He brought Drenthe in on loan, and the Argentinian lad. He probably tried for many others too. All fans do is moan.

 

Perhaps we should employ Paul flaming Daniels, so he can magic a few players out of the hat. It's pathetic that fans are so self centered that they want Moyes replaced. Do they want their wives replaced too when things aren't going well?

 

For me, it's good times and bad times. Moyes deserves the good times as much as any fan.

[Lowensda]

 

Good times and bad times? Exactly. This is a bad time, so let us moan!

 

Im always always pro-Moyes. So the time i think he has to take responsibility, and moan about his obvious down-falls, im not allowed to because back in the day he won 3 manager of the year awards. Fuck me.

 

I wanted Barton, cracking player. Didn't want Mcfuck wit because he's shit. And? What's your point now?

 

Because we've lost these players your accepting that playing shit and negatively is is ok? Well its not. We've lost those players. Get on with it. As a manager you can only work with what you've got and frankly our first team is better than 12/13 teams in the league, so he's got to make them play like that. Not go to Newcastle and play for a draw. Goin to the top teams and accepting defeat before the games started!

 

The weaker argument sucks, its not about the personnel, rather the way they're playing. Moyes isn't entirely to blame but he's the manager and tactically, he's responsible.

[FanchesterCity]

Barton's a nutter.

 

Some of the stuff that happened at City was horrific. What's amazed me is that nobody's had a word with him (if you catch my drift).

He does get bad press too, but when you're stubbing cigarettes out near the eyes of a youth team player you hardly court good press do you?

 

As a player, would be good, but good for the club in general? Stay clear!

 

Fancy Tevez instead? lovely lad, always willing to jump off that bench. Language no barrier. Could bring him home without fear of the wife fancying him - what's not to like?

[pete0]

Good times and bad times? Exactly. This is a bad time, so let us moan!

 

Im always always pro-Moyes. So the time i think he has to take responsibility, and moan about his obvious down-falls, im not allowed to because back in the day he won 3 manager of the year awards. Fuck me.

 

I wanted Barton, cracking player. Didn't want Mcfuck wit because he's shit. And? What's your point now?

 

Because we've lost these players your accepting that playing shit and negatively is is ok? Well its not. We've lost those players. Get on with it. As a manager you can only work with what you've got and frankly our first team is better than 12/13 teams in the league, so he's got to make them play like that. Not go to Newcastle and play for a draw. Goin to the top teams and accepting defeat before the games started!

 

The weaker argument sucks, its not about the personnel, rather the way they're playing. Moyes isn't entirely to blame but he's the manager and tactically, he's responsible.

This.

We have a strong 11 capable of matching any team in the prem. We should be favourites to win at Newcastle, you'd struggle to get more than 2 of their players in our starting 11. Moyes lost us that game, and his tactics are the main reason we have been playing badly.

[pete0]

Barton's a nutter. Some of the stuff that happened at City was horrific. What's amazed me is that nobody's had a word with him (if you catch my drift). He does get bad press too, but when you're stubbing cigarettes out near the eyes of a youth team player you hardly court good press do you? As a player, would be good, but good for the club in general? Stay clear! Fancy Tevez instead? lovely lad, always willing to jump off that bench. Language no barrier. Could bring him home without fear of the wife fancying him - what's not to like?

He's a disgrace, been in the country for 5 years and still struggles, same goes for Anderson of Man u.

Edited November 6, 2011 by pete0

[FanchesterCity]

I'm not sure you're better than 12/13 teams, that would put you top 8 - 'just like that'.

I think you CAN make top 8, but there are plenty of others who could too.

 

I think you're better than about 9 others and about equal with 3 others (Villa, Stoke, Fulham) - not pretty reading I know, just what I think!

Those other 3 all have 'issues' in their style of play, but then they'd say the same of Everton. All decent teams though.

[pete0]

I'm not sure you're better than 12/13 teams, that would put you top 8 - 'just like that'.

I think you CAN make top 8, but there are plenty of others who could too.

 

I think you're better than about 9 others and about equal with 3 others (Villa, Stoke, Fulham) - not pretty reading I know, just what I think!

Those other 3 all have 'issues' in their style of play, but then they'd say the same of Everton. All decent teams though.

Name 5 players who would get into the Everton starting 11, then youve got an argument. We're in the bracket above them with Spurs and Liverpool.

[FanchesterCity]

It was only three years ago that City, Everton, Spurs and Villa were all neck and neck and it made for a cracking season. And Everton and Spurs looked probably the stronger two.

 

City got players from Everton and Villa (and some!) and Spurs spent more too to push on. Breaking that top 4 needs stupid money, crap for the game, and in reality, it's just making it a top 6 instead of top 4. It's pushed the mini competition for 5/6 down to 7/8

[marcus jones]

451 formation? Not dropping poor performing players? poor use and timings of subs? Negative tactics? Is that to do with lack of money? You can only piss with the cock your given.

[FanchesterCity]

Name 5 players who would get into the Everton starting 11, then youve got an argument. We're in the bracket above them with Spurs and Liverpool.

 

Shay Given

Stilyan Petrov

Charles N'Zogbia

Darren Bent

Kenwyn Jones

Peter Crouch

John Arne Rise

Danny Murphy

 

 

If you're at the same level as Liverpool and Spurs, then Moyes should be sacked immediately for gross incompetence.

I don't think you're being honest with yourself with that assessment, and I don't think the tables are telling total lies (although I do admit they are still misleading after just 10 games)

 

I think with a 2-3 signing you COULD be with those guys, but you're not there now, not in my opinion anyway. I'm between a rock and a hard place - I don't watch Everton week in week out, but then the 'outsider' view can sometimes be more accurate.

Edited November 6, 2011 by BlueSky

[Mogsy]

451 formation? Not dropping poor performing players? poor use and timings of subs? Negative tactics? Is that to do with lack of money? You can only piss with the cock your given.

 

Not strictly true! Colostomy bag?!

[marcus jones]

Not strictly true! Colostomy bag?!

Git!!!!!

[pete0]

 

Shay Given. Yes

Stilyan Petrov. No Fellaini

Charles N'Zogbia. Yes

Darren Bent. Yes. Not a fan but we're weak up top

Kenwyn Jones. We're not that weak. No

Peter Crouch. Big NO

John Arne Rise. Now you're jus being an idiot, Baines

Danny Murphy. Seriously?

3 players out of 3 teams. Duff and Dempsey would be useful though but you obviously just pick the newspaper players. Hardly equals. To pick an 11 out of the 4 teams and over half of them would be Everton players. We're better than them.

Edited November 6, 2011 by pete0

[FanchesterCity]

3 players out of 3 teams. Duff and Dempsey would be useful though but you obviously just pick the newspaper players. Hardly equals. To pick an 11 out of the 4 teams and over half of them would be Everton players. We're better than them.

 

I take riise back - entirely! apologies for that one

[FanchesterCity]

I'll tell you what I'll do...

 

I'll put 20 quid on Everton finishing below Spurs and Liverpool. And you only need to finish higher than one of them?

 

Deal?