Romey 1878 Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I am actually furious with his performance tonight. I really feel like breaking things. I had the benefit (ha fucking ha) of being able to see him not just when the camera went to him when he got the ball but all of the time. And he was a absolutely shocking right from the start. The game passed the lad by because it was simply too quick for him. He was like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Off the ball he was diabolical. The lad mostly fucking jogged around, hardly even getting near a red shite player. It was token gestures all over the place. And he's always on his toes, he never anticipates anything. Someone could tell him exactly where a ball was going to go and he still wouldn't be there at the right time. Also, he doesn't have the mettle needed. Don't even say the tackle on Henderson showed he does. That was the sign of a player frustrated because he knew how woeful he'd been. I've backed him and backed him but tonight has really pushed me over the edge with him. He might eventually come good but I will no longer actually expect it. I just can't be arsed. He needs a good shake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 The transfer fee is going down with every game he plays. Last year he had a good half season up to Xmas, should have sold him when we could have got good money for him. I think he will be a regular bench warmer under Koeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 The game passed the lad by because it was simply too quick for him. He was like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Off the ball he was diabolical. The lad mostly fucking jogged around, hardly even getting near a red shite player. It was token gestures all over the place. And he's always on his toes, he never anticipates anything. Someone could tell him exactly where a ball was going to go and he still wouldn't be there at the right time. Also, he doesn't have the mettle needed. I've been a Barkley critic, mostly on football-brain and over-dribbling grounds. I don't know whether or not he has the mettle. I do marvel at his physical skills, but either he doesn't understand how to use his great skills, or the systems employed by Martinez and Koeman inhibit his play. But Romey's comments here strike me as spot on, matching my more recent concerns about Ross's utterly aimless running about. Although it may be "unfair" to contrast his pitch-sense with that of the near-perfect pitch-sense of Gana, the contrast at least allows a focus on the problem. I don't think it's merely Gana's physical quickness that allows him to be everywhere. It's his ability to see a couple of passes ahead, and so anticipate where he needs to be to disrupt the opponent. As Romey says, Ross "never anticipates anything." So he's nearly always -- nearly always -- chasing the play when on defense. I'm not willing to say he works hard consistently. He does run a lot, but too seldom to good effect. I suspect most of us admire pressing teams, principally because we think it leads to opportunities, and to wins. But also in part because we're sort of pissed off at overpaid, pampered athletes, including (maybe especially) our own. We want to see our boys exhaust themselves, earn their paycheck, take it directly to every opponent. Hence the outrage among Everton fans at the recent displays of lethargic play. So we want to see energy, aggressive pressing. But It looks to me as if Ross is a major liability to high pressing. Maybe he's not the only wasted-energy presser, but I haven't seen any Everton player so totally ineffective to this "attacking defending" we want to see. Sibdane and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I think we have grown as critics as fans and can't see past it. Last night I watched Ross with a clever turn and shot at the edge of the box. I watched Ross spray a 30 yard pinpoint pass diagonally across the pitch...three times. I watched him turn through three opponents only to be caught by the fourth because he had no options. But all I see are comments on how poor he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 [quote name="Shukes" post="551512" timestamp But all I see are comments on how poor he was. Not how poor he is, for me he's just not as good as most people think he is. dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I am actually furious with his performance tonight. I really feel like breaking things. I had the benefit (ha fucking ha) of being able to see him not just when the camera went to him when he got the ball but all of the time. And he was a absolutely shocking right from the start. The game passed the lad by because it was simply too quick for him. He was like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Off the ball he was diabolical. The lad mostly fucking jogged around, hardly even getting near a red shite player. It was token gestures all over the place. And he's always on his toes, he never anticipates anything. Someone could tell him exactly where a ball was going to go and he still wouldn't be there at the right time. Also, he doesn't have the mettle needed. Don't even say the tackle on Henderson showed he does. That was the sign of a player frustrated because he knew how woeful he'd been. I've backed him and backed him but tonight has really pushed me over the edge with him. He might eventually come good but I will no longer actually expect it. I just can't be arsed. He needs a good shake. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Not how poor he is, for me he's just not as good as most people think he is. That's fair enough. Just wish people would comment on the good and notjust the bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Of all the players at Everton, I want him to come good more than the others, but he becomes more inconsistent with each game. I understand if his confidence is low, but if he wants to be a stand-out footballer in the Premier League then he needs to get over it and become mentally tough. You can just see it in his body language that he has absolutely zero faith in his own ability right now, but frankly that's no excuse! It's gone on too long. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Not for one minute am I comparing his ability to that of Juan Mata's but the Spanish play Mata on one side of a midfield 3 with 3 attackers infront. That's the only place I can see Barkley operate for us. On the right of a flat 3 man midfield with Lukaku on the left of an attacking 3. Keep those 2 as far apart as possible. With Coleman and a busy body right winger it will cover for Barkley's ambling about and may actually bring something out of him. Lukaku is bone idle too so having Baines and a left centre mid charging about should keep him covered. We need a proper mobile number 9 hold up player who can bring others into play. Barkley and Lukaku can't play together. They're on completely different wavelengths. Agree 100% except for the bold bit. They are luxury players that a great side will struggle to shoehorn into the same eleven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 He is too wasteful, slows play and makes the wrong decisions time after time. Thats something I dont think will change. Im not doubting his talent when he turns it on he is great to watch but he seems a 1 in 5 type player these days. He had a dreadful Derby, for such a big lad he doesnt half pull out of challenges (possibly due to the injury he had a few yrs back). I dont know what the future holds for him but if we have aspirations of being a top 4/5 club then im not sure if he will be around for much longer. Bournemouth is a good shout, a good footballer side with a very understanding Manager in Eddie Howe. Maybe he needs a season away from Everton on loan like Wilshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 He is too wasteful, slows play and makes the wrong decisions time after time. Thats something I dont think will change. Im not doubting his talent when he turns it on he is great to watch but he seems a 1 in 5 type player these days. He had a dreadful Derby, for such a big lad he doesnt half pull out of challenges (possibly due to the injury he had a few yrs back). I dont know what the future holds for him but if we have aspirations of being a top 4/5 club then im not sure if he will be around for much longer. Bournemouth is a good shout, a good footballer side with a very understanding Manager in Eddie Howe. Maybe he needs a season away from Everton on loan like Wilshire. I was thinking the same thing. Barkley has talent in spades. But, similar to Stones and Rom, Martinez gave a young talented player complete free reign, refusing to criticize mistakes and offered no discipline or structure which has meant that the lad lost any sense of guidance. Howe would be a great manager to get him firing, as Pep will be for Stones and I hope Koeman is for Rom. But, the change management required to undo 2-3 years of the "do what you want" mentality isn't going to be corrected in 6 months, maybe not even a full season. dlblue, Sibdane and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 no thanks on the loan, if Howe is what takes to bring the best out of our players we should sign him not send ross their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 no thanks on the loan, if Howe is what takes to bring the best out of our players we should sign him not send ross their way. sense prevails at last dlblue and markjazzbassist 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) no thanks on the loan, if Howe is what takes to bring the best out of our players we should sign him not send ross their way. Howe isnt Everton standard and nowhere near. The point was Barkley may need time away from Everton and the all the pressure to re-establish himself, playing at a team with no expectations may be what he needs right now. Edited December 21, 2016 by Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 no thanks on the loan, if Howe is what takes to bring the best out of our players we should sign him not send ross their way. Ideally yeah, but that's not realistic any time soon. Getting Ross out on loan, is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 no thanks on the loan, if Howe is what takes to bring the best out of our players we should sign him not send ross their way. Never going to happen, we are stuck with Koeman for now, in Moshiri's own words 'Koeman is a Hollywood manager' also Howe has had a few other offers now and seems reluctant to leave Bournmouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Never going to happen, we are stuck with Koeman for now, in Moshiri's own words 'Koeman is a Hollywood manager' also Howe has had a few other offers now and seems reluctant to leave Bournmouth Stuck with Koeman? Do you think Eddie Howe could do better job with our current squad? Could he rebuild this club? Who could he attract? Have any players outside of the Prem even heard of him? Why would anyone want Eddie Howe over Koeman?! Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Stuck with Koeman? Do you think Eddie Howe could do better job with our current squad? Could he rebuild this club? Who could he attract? Have any players outside of the Prem even heard of him? Why would anyone want Eddie Howe over Koeman?! I never suggested Howe could do a job at Everton, but at the same time i never wanted Koeman in the first place dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 The point isn't the details though. It's about the attitude of the club. We should be looking at answers for our young players not quick fixes. If it takes bringing someone in to mentor these players then that's what we should be doing. SimonButtle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 The point isn't the details though. It's about the attitude of the club. We should be looking at answers for our young players not quick fixes. If it takes bringing someone in to mentor these players then that's what we should be doing. What if Barkley just isnt good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 What if Barkley just isnt good enough? I actually don't think he is good enough, other than that small part of one season under Martinez in which he looked like he had a bit about him, he has never done anything since then in any of the following seasons to suggest he is this great english midfield hope everyone keeps going on about. dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 The point isn't the details though. It's about the attitude of the club. We should be looking at answers for our young players not quick fixes. If it takes bringing someone in to mentor these players then that's what we should be doing. Sending him out on loan is looking at answers for our young players isn't it? Not saying I think he should be loaned out myself like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Sending him out on loan is looking at answers for our young players isn't it? Not saying I think he should be loaned out myself like! Just in the hope he turns good away from the pressures he faces at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 What if Barkley just isnt good enough? Then I'm sure the manager and club will make that call. He will be relegated to the u23s or sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Sending him out on loan is looking at answers for our young players isn't it? Not saying I think he should be loaned out myself like! Yes either a loan, a coach or a mentor that can nurture them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Can anyone name a midfielder we've had on the books in the past 20 years that you'd like Barkley's game to evolve into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Can anyone name a midfielder we've had on the books in the past 20 years that you'd like Barkley's game to evolve into. If we could put Ossies or Artetas footballing brain into him... MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 With a bit of Cahill mixed on and a slice of bracewell would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Imagine having an attacking player that sweats and bleeds blue! Loved watching that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Barkley doesn't need to go anywhere. You could have played Ossie, Arteta or Cahill and they would have all struggled because we were that bad in bringing him into the game. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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