Louis Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 A publican is taking the Premier League to the European Court of Justice because she beleives that BSkyB's exclusive contract with Premier League is a restriction of trade and as a consumer she should be able to choose what kind of service she buys and compares buying foreign subscription TV to a foreign car (within the EU). The Premier League took her to court a few years ago and she was found innocent but then lost two appeals. Could be interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11481023 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11452434 I'm interested to see what Holystove has to say about this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 A publican is taking the Premier League to the European Court of Justice because she beleives that BSkyB's exclusive contract with Premier League is a restriction of trade and as a consumer she should be able to choose what kind of service she buys and compares buying foreign subscription TV to a foreign car (within the EU). The Premier League took her to court a few years ago and she was found innocent but then lost two appeals. Could be interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11481023 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11452434 I'm interested to see what Holystove has to say about this one. Me too. Strange sort of thing considering Bill's post in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Me too. Strange sort of thing considering Bill's post in another thread. huh ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 huh ?? I'm assuming he means about posting links to streams for the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I'm assuming he means about posting links to streams for the games. Indeed I do young Skywalker Romey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) Well obviously she is breaking UK copyright law. So the question the court will have to answer is whether or not the UK copyright law is in breach of EU law and whether or not when the case is sent back to the UK court, that court should disregard their own national law. I don't know what the provisions in question of UK copyright law are, but that doesn't really matter. From a EU law perspective the starting point is that according to the European Court of Justice the integration of the internal market has been completed. As a rule, all restrictions on imports and services among EU states are a breach of EU law. Now the question becomes whether or not that service provided by the Greek satellite broadcaster is legal. Obviously only legally provided services enjoy the protection of EU Law. This is where it gets tricky. On the one hand it is inherent to copyright law that it restricts the choice of suppliers once the copyright is granted and free and open competition is protected by the fact that any company could bid on the right to broadcast Premier League games. From this point of view the service provided by the Greek satellite broadcaster is illegal. On the other hand I'm sure the European Court of Justice will have a problem with the fact that within the presumed internal market, it's still member state borders that decide which services a European citizen has access to. Exclusive broadcasting rights restrict cross border member state competition within the EU. So what would happen if those exclusive rights became illegal? I don't think it would be that bad for the Premier League. Presumably 27 different satellite broadcasters (as many as there are member states) would offer their services in the UK market. This would make it cheaper for UK citizens to watch the Premier League but wouldn't necessarily decrease the income of the Premier League because they would get more money from the satellite broadcasters in the other member states because they've been given access to a bigger market. So here's what I hope they decide : It's OK to have copyrights granted in an each member state (basically because the European Court of Justice has no jurisdiction to say anything about that). However that copyright is only exclusive regarding other providers in that member state. "Cross border" supply of services can not be restricted. This case is being handled in Grand Chamber. Which means there is no clear answer and it takes the combined legal expertise of all the judges to decide and more than likely it will be a decision that either completely upholds the UK provision or severely changes copyright law in all member states. It also means that the decision they reach is as final as can be and can only be theoretically overturned by amending the treaty. Edited October 6, 2010 by holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Well obviously she is breaking UK copyright law. So the question the court will have to answer is whether or not the UK copyright law is in breach of EU law and whether or not when the case is sent back to the UK court, that court should disregard their own national law. I don't know what the provisions in question of UK copyright law are, but that doesn't really matter. From a EU law perspective the starting point is that according to the European Court of Justice the integration of the internal market has been completed. As a rule, all restrictions on imports and services among EU states are a breach of EU law. Now the question becomes whether or not that service provided by the Greek satellite broadcaster is legal. Obviously only legally provided services enjoy the protection of EU Law. This is where it gets tricky. On the one hand it is inherent to copyright law that it restricts the choice of suppliers once the copyright is granted and free and open competition is protected by the fact that any company could bid on the right to broadcast Premier League games. From this point of view the service provided by the Greek satellite broadcaster is illegal. On the other hand I'm sure the European Court of Justice will have a problem with the fact that within the presumed internal market, it's still member state borders that decide which services a European citizen has access to. Exclusive broadcasting rights restrict cross border member state competition within the EU. So what would happen if those exclusive rights became illegal? I don't think it would be that bad for the Premier League. Presumably 27 different satellite broadcasters (as many as there are member states) would offer their services in the UK market. This would make it cheaper for UK citizens to watch the Premier League but wouldn't necessarily decrease the income of the Premier League because they would get more money from the satellite broadcasters in the other member states because they've been given access to a bigger market. So here's what I hope they decide : It's OK to have copyrights granted in an each member state (basically because the European Court of Justice has no jurisdiction to say anything about that). However that copyright is only exclusive regarding other providers in that member state. "Cross border" supply of services can not be restricted. This case is being handled in Grand Chamber. Which means there is no clear answer and it takes the combined legal expertise of all the judges to decide and more than likely it will be a decision that either completely upholds the UK provision or severely changes copyright law in all member states. It also means that the decision they reach is as final as can be and can only be theoretically overturned by amending the treaty. I was just going to say that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12355022 seems she won! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12355022 seems she won! BBC News channel flashed up on the ticker-tape that she'd been using a Greet decoder....thought I must buy one of those so googled it (thinking it was a satellite company) but could find nothing . It should have read Greek . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12355022 seems she won! Seems like advocate Juliane Kokott of the European Court of Justice read my post! "(The) exclusivity rights in question have the effect of partitioning the internal market into quite separate national markets, something which constitutes a serious impairment of the freedom to provide services." .. borders on plagiarism. :shaking fist: Full text : http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en&alljur=alljur&jurcdj=jurcdj&jurtpi=jurtpi&jurtfp=jurtfp&numaff=C-429/08&nomusuel=&docnodecision=docnodecision&allcommjo=allcommjo&affint=affint&affclose=affclose&alldocrec=alldocrec&docor=docor&docav=docav&docsom=docsom&docinf=docinf&alldocnorec=alldocnorec&docnoor=docnoor&docppoag=docppoag&radtypeord=on&newform=newform&docj=docj&docop=docop&docnoj=docnoj&typeord=ALL&domaine=&mots=&resmax=100&Submit=Rechercher Edited February 3, 2011 by holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 MikeO - the kit to receive Greek TV costs over £2,200 Good result so far though I wonder if this means more people will buy foreign decoder codes if the binding decision is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 What's more likely to happen? Will people in UK have a better choice of legal providers for Premier League games so they can choose the cheapest package or will Premier League be forced to sell rights on a Pan-European basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 MikeO - the kit to receive Greek TV costs over £2,200 I'll wait for the Greet to come out . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/9386554.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/02/10/dave-boyle-if-the-3pm-blackout-on-saturday-ended-doubtless-many-lower-league-club-chairmen-would-panic-but-they-could-be-cannier-and-see-it-as-an-opportunity-100201/ Interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Indeed Louis interesting and apparently an informed opinion. Never heard of this guy before but I like his thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 She won... BBC News - Pub can use foreign decoder for Premier League games Here's a bit more information: Murphy’s law: why the Sky isn’t about to fall in on the Premier League « Sporting Intelligence Personally, I hope the Premier League create their own TV Channel. Their programmes are already made by IMG (Premier League World, Football Focus) and the match coverage is provided by SKY. It's a natural progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 this is the thread i was looking for. Im a little worried about this, if weve been loaning against future TV funding, could there be an impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Not very likely in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Interesting blog: http://www.headoflegal.com/2011/10/04/eu-law-2-fa-premier-league-0/ http://www.headoflegal.com/2011/10/04/eu-law-v-fa-premier-league-a-further-thought/ http://www.headofleg...-to-do-with-it/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Louis you know your shit, is this the same as a sling box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 No, they're different. A sling box would allow me to watch what's on my tv from another location by streaming the picture on the internet which can be picked up by another box, laptop or phone etc. A foregin satellite decoder translates a signal that we wouldn't normally be able to view in your country/boundary so that it can be viewed. In theory, you could have someone with a sling box transmit you a signal from a satelite decoder so that you could watch something 'protected' by national borders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 ah, i saw Johnny H say his sling box was broken a while back on twitter. i guess someone in holland has a box rigged up so johnny can watch over here. guess i'll have to get saving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,11670_7223781,00+en-USS_01DBC.html Reliant on graphics used during the game is going to be a very thin argument. However this could lead to goal line and much more to up the amount of copyrighted tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I saw that, but the blog I posted in #20 seems to suggest that it's hot air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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