marcopaulo Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Maybe it's me being thick here..good chance...but if you're saying there's not a chance of a striker with a better ratio against top sides then what is the point of your argument? Doesn't that just mean he's like the rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 naisy, end thread He would come close but even I wouldn't use him as an argument. The argument is that as an reputable striker which Rom is.... that his goals are far more heavily weighted to be against lesser teams than the rest of the team. Which has been proven. I don't like spin so I'm not going to use it in my favour. Naismith played more often than not against better teams which would favour him in those stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Did you often answer questions that weren't being asked in exams? Where you kinda get giddy thinking "I know the answer, I know the answer".... Read what I posted again. Read what it is I was comparing.... Quite ironic that you said "not worth reading into".... you just never actually read it at all. I wasn't answering any question I was making a statement. More to my point, strikers are naturally going to have a lower uplift against "top 6" teams especially if they play for a team in the lower half of the table which are going to try and beat superior opponents with set pieces and long range shots. Nobody is getting giddy, just you getting patronising, possibly because you put so much effort into working statistics which don't really prove anything, like most statistics. Cute though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 naisy, end thread Too small amount of games for comparison. End thread? What planet are you on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Too small amount of games for comparison. End thread? What planet are you on? was worth a shot mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Maybe it's me being thick here..good chance...but if you're saying there's not a chance of a striker with a better ratio against top sides then what is the point of your argument? Doesn't that just mean he's like the rest? That's why aidens post has pissed me off. I knew it would derail my post. I wasn't saying that Rom scores less against the top teams - that is a given... I was showing that the proportion by which it drops is far greater than the others Edited October 17, 2016 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 naisy, end thread He's does like to show up in the big ones! But I wouldn't have him down as a striker. I do miss Naisy and had a quiet clap when he scored in the gwladys end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 was worth a shot mike Admire the intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I wasn't answering any question I was making a statement. More to my point, strikers are naturally going to have a lower uplift against "top 6" teams especially if they play for a team in the lower half of the table which are going to try and beat superior opponents with set pieces and long range shots. Nobody is getting giddy, just you getting patronising, possibly because you put so much effort into working statistics which don't really prove anything, like most statistics. Cute though. Please.... for fucks sake. Read it again. It's about comparing the proportionate "drop" in goals.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Please.... for fucks sake. Read it again. It's about comparing the proportionate "drop" in goals.... I've read it again and again and you could take Roms name out of that post and put in any other strikers in the league. It's still irrelevant I don't know what you want me to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 That's why aidens post has pissed me off. I knew it would derail my post. I wasn't saying that Rom scores less against the top teams - that is a given... I was showing that the proportion by which it drops is far greater than the others Have you posted the others? Not sure if I missed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I've read it again and again and you could take Roms name out of that post and put in any other strikers in the league. It's still irrelevant I don't know what you want me to say. FFS!!!! I'll try again... This is not about comparing him to other strikers in the league. This is about comparing his change in goal ratio vs that of the rest of the team when looking at top 6 and non top 6. If you raced two horses who were of similar speed.... took their time, and then put 20kg on them then yes you would expect them to both be slower.... the question is how much slower will one be versus the other. His goal ratio drops off massively in proportion to the overall goals of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 OK - is Lukaku a flat track bully? How can we ascertain this? Compare his goals per match ratio vs top 6 sides in his time (Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs) with his goals per match ratio against other teams in the prem The compare his uplift versus that of the team. If his % uplift against lesser teams is similar to that of Everton overall then his goals scored against top teams isn't an issue. If his % uplift is higher against lesser teams then it can be argued that he does tend to struggle relatively to the rest of the side against better teams. Lukaku Top 6 sides:- 11 goals in 41 games. 0.26 goals per game Other sides:- 46 goals in 85 games. 0.54 goals per game He has a 102% uplift in goals scored per game when playing lesser teams Everton Top 6 sides:- 42 goals in 45 games. 1.07 goals per game Other sides:- 163 goals in 91 games. 1.79 goals per game We have an uplift of 67% in goals scored when playing lesser teams So there we have it..... it is pretty clear that whilst it is expected that we score more goals against lesser teams - Lukaku has a huge uplift when playing these sides relative to the team overall. That's the statistical side of it. The observational side of it from my point is that as a player Rom has a feast or famine mentality. When up against better defenders his head often goes down - he looks beaten. Take the game at the weekend - he could have been taken off until he scored, his attitude wasn't on. Yet bolassie sent him away with a great touch and he scored a great goal. Against lesser teams he plays as if he knows he is going to score - much of what he does is positive. This translates itself into a better all round games with more endeavour and less sulking. The bits in bold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Jesus Christ. We will leave that one there shall we this is tiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 FFS!!!! I'll try again... This is not about comparing him to other strikers in the league. This is about comparing his change in goal ratio vs that of the rest of the team when looking at top 6 and non top 6. If you raced two horses who were of similar speed.... took their time, and then put 20kg on them then yes you would expect them to both be slower.... the question is how much slower will one be versus the other. His goal ratio drops off massively in proportion to the overall goals of the team. FFS!!!! I'll try again... This is not about comparing him to other strikers in the league. This is about comparing his change in goal ratio vs that of the rest of the team when looking at top 6 and non top 6. If you raced two horses who were of similar speed.... took their time, and then put 20kg on them then yes you would expect them to both be slower.... the question is how much slower will one be versus the other. His goal ratio drops off massively in proportion to the overall goals of the team. But it should be surely? Show us the guy who scores every time v United, City, Arse etc.....then let's buy him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm feeling thick here cos in reply to me I'm sure you said it's to show his percentage drops more than others...which is comparing him to others? My head hurts from this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Ok..... If i said "lukaku scores more goals against teams 7th-20th than he does 1st - 6th".... that would make you say "well yeah... the team probably does too" My argument is that Lukaku really does supplement his goal tally against lesser teams vs the other players in our team. Lukaku when playing against bottom teams has a 102% uplift in goals. The team itself has a 67% uplift in goals. Lukaku improves his goal ratio by an extra 34% vs that of our other players when faced with lesser teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Ok..... If i said "lukaku scores more goals against teams 7th-20th than he does 1st - 6th".... that would make you say "well yeah... the team probably does too" My argument is that Lukaku really does supplement his goal tally against lesser teams vs the other players in our team. Lukaku when playing against bottom teams has a 102% uplift in goals. The team itself has a 67% uplift in goals. Lukaku improves his goal ratio by an extra 34% vs that of our other players when faced with lesser teams. i don't understand what you're saying. put it in simple layman's terms for me please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Edit: I tried to explain it and struggled! It's not about Roms goals it's about the ratio comparison to the teams goals vs bigger teams and lower teams. Edited October 17, 2016 by AidanLewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Think someone's taking the piss here Haf, I'd let it go mate. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Think someone's taking the piss here Haf, I'd let it go mate. The term 'let it go' doesn't seem to work in this thread unfortunately. Sibdane, Lowensda, markjazzbassist and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm not taking the piss..I'm genuinely lost as to what the point is...he scores less goals against top sides compared to others apparently...yet not seen other stats..then it's not a comparison against other players it's just to highlight rom scores more against lesser teams..which all strikers do...I'm going to bed haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 It is the thread for drivel after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just checking top scorers (accidently stumbled across the EPL was looking originally for championship) and it turns out Rom averages a goal every 95 minutes, the best in the League. Good effort to him hope it continues. nutmegwolf203 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Haf, you've compared him to the rest of the team with your stats. The other lads here are asking you to do the same thing for other strikers. Maybe the best way to prove your point here is to look at say Aguero, Kane, Rooney, Suarez, Sanchez, see how they all average against top sides vs lower sides too. Though Suarez used to score 15 per season just against Norwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Walks in, walks out.... Sibdane, Lowensda and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Walks in, walks out.... Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 How can I word it another way..... When we play against top 6 teams Everton have to heavily rely on other players. Lukaku has a huge drop in goal ratio that far outweighs the overall performance drop of the rest of the team. Going from 1 in 2 to 1 in 4 is an excessive difference when compared to the team. The team comparison is relevant - it demonstrates that there is an ability and tendency to score against these top 6 teams - but lukaku has relatively gone missing. If it makes you happy I will look to do the same for a couple of other strikers. This stat is solid on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Haf, you've compared him to the rest of the team with your stats. The other lads here are asking you to do the same thing for other strikers. Maybe the best way to prove your point here is to look at say Aguero, Kane, Rooney, Suarez, Sanchez, see how they all average against top sides vs lower sides too. Though Suarez used to score 15 per season just against Norwich. I'm definitely interested. I think that will help those struggling to see the argument in this instance. Direct comparison would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Ok.... before I go and repeat the same process which took 20 minutes just for Rom it's important that people understand what the relevance of the comparisons are. If i was to say "lukaku scores less against better teams".... the response would be "yes but Everton don't do well against better teams versus lower teams" OK... so that gives me the question "relative to the goals we as a team score.... how does Rom do against the top 6" The answer to that is the there is a marked downfall on his goals versus that of the team overall when playing top 6. You can't argue that "it's ok that he scores less because the team do".... the fact is that the teams goal output does not drop anywhere near that of the level of Rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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