Everton_Worshiper Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 The point is that you're telling your eleven year old brother that Santa doesn't exist but, far from finding his presents, you keep failing to show him that they're in the wardrobe. Keeping on shouting that they're there and that you know they're there (because the big bullies at school told you they were and you believe them) but declining time and again to take the lad and show him the evidence doesn't make it true . Touche! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 The point is that you're telling your eleven year old brother that Santa doesn't exist but, far from finding his presents, you keep failing to show him that they're in the wardrobe. Keeping on shouting that they're there and that you know they're there (because the big bullies at school told you they were and you believe them) but declining time and again to take the lad and show him the evidence doesn't make it true . Ha ha good answer couldnt have put it better myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 It's almost like telling your brother who's turning 11 that Santa doesn't exist, you know it's cruel and is probably shattering their present delusioned joy, but in the long run it will save him from the big bully's at school. Hafnia!........First you tell me Kenwrights not the man to run Everton!! Now you tell me there's no Santa There's a serious danger that your ruining my week Randy Learner does seem a decent bloke, and as SteveO has said he's the type of bloke who we would like to take over when Bill decides to sell.But it has again to be pointed out, if we KEEP finishing higher than Villa, would there be any point handing over to him! Villa have had one or two injury problems but not half as bad as ours!Our squad is probably smaller than theirs, but certainly better......for all of randys money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 This is a top thread, and one i'm happy to reply to after a few pints, it's one that splits Evertonians right through. Last night I was at a sportsmans dinner with Dave Watson speaking, and he was tops, a great bloke, blue through and through. He started telling stories about times when he was captain in the dark times and I thought no way was it that bad - surely that wasn't Everton (Before wimbledon last day etc), and it's true, I do forget how bad we have been under the likes of Peter Johnson. What we have now feels so much better and enjoyable, and I do appreciate Kenwrights stewardship to that extent - but ultimately it's down to Moyes. The fact is the playing field was much more level then, everyone got their andrex out when Ravanelli signed for Middlesborough FFS, nowadays we have Robinho, Torres, Drogba, Fabregas, and last but not least Arteta playing in the premier league - the top teams have the best of the best and that ultimately separates the top 4 from the rest (now top 6 IMO)- for us to be back where we belong we can not cling on to the hope that our next £15m signing isn't funded by selling part of what Moyes has built. Moyes has finished scrubbing Kenwrights boots as a YTS, he is ready to claim his shirt - will it be at Everton? Depends on how much more Kenwright wants his boots cleaned, the man needs serious financial backing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Didnt David Moyes say that he doubted he could do any better if he had 100 million?? Look at the mess portsmouth are in, look at Newcastle, Leeds. I dont know what the future holds for the likes of Man City and I suppose most supporters (rightly so) are riding the crest of a wave, but what happens when the numbers dont add up and the payback comes. Just like the credit crunch, you cant borrow on the back of tomorrows success if it never comes Everyone wants to be in the big four, we're no different, but I dont want it at any cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 This is a top thread, and one i'm happy to reply to after a few pints, it's one that splits Evertonians right through. Last night I was at a sportsmans dinner with Dave Watson speaking, and he was tops, a great bloke, blue through and through. He started telling stories about times when he was captain in the dark times and I thought no way was it that bad - surely that wasn't Everton (Before wimbledon last day etc), and it's true, I do forget how bad we have been under the likes of Peter Johnson. What we have now feels so much better and enjoyable, and I do appreciate Kenwrights stewardship to that extent - but ultimately it's down to Moyes. The fact is the playing field was much more level then, everyone got their andrex out when Ravanelli signed for Middlesborough FFS, nowadays we have Robinho, Torres, Drogba, Fabregas, and last but not least Arteta playing in the premier league - the top teams have the best of the best and that ultimately separates the top 4 from the rest (now top 6 IMO)- for us to be back where we belong we can not cling on to the hope that our next £15m signing isn't funded by selling part of what Moyes has built. Moyes has finished scrubbing Kenwrights boots as a YTS, he is ready to claim his shirt - will it be at Everton? Depends on how much more Kenwright wants his boots cleaned, the man needs serious financial backing. What about when we finished 17th and people were calling for Moyse' head? Surely Kenwrights decision to stick with him is ultimately the reason for our success. Could you see Newcastle or Spurs or City sticking by their manager in such circumstances? Yes BK has taken us as far as we can go and we undoubtedly need a new investor if we are to kick on but people shouldnt be so quick to write off or belittle BKs contribution to where we are now. If he sold up tomorrow everybody would have to look back on his tenure and say it was a job well done because the club is unrecogniseable from the one he took over back in the Johnson era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 What about when we finished 17th and people were calling for Moyse' head? Surely Kenwrights decision to stick with him is ultimately the reason for our success. Could you see Newcastle or Spurs or City sticking by their manager in such circumstances? Yes BK has taken us as far as we can go and we undoubtedly need a new investor if we are to kick on but people shouldnt be so quick to write off or belittle BKs contribution to where we are now. If he sold up tomorrow everybody would have to look back on his tenure and say it was a job well done because the club is unrecogniseable from the one he took over back in the Johnson era Absolutely agree, and that season when everton finished 17th Moyes was prone to making bad tactical errors to the point that Kenwright must have been getting a little frustrated. However I think Moyes professionalism and work ethic which is almost legendary would have made that tough for Bill, let alone we had no money and were about to sell our prize asset to stay afloat. For Bill to sack him would have been a bad move financially, who would come in to manage a club that was about to sell a star and replace with Marcus Bent? Let alone the compo pay off for Moyes. Let's give Bill the credit he deserves, and that is getting Moyes into the club. Let's give Moyes the platform he deserves and that is money. Moyes had stated £30m would have enabled him to break the top 4 and the players to do that were earmarked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Didnt David Moyes say that he doubted he could do any better if he had 100 million?? Look at the mess portsmouth are in, look at Newcastle, Leeds. I dont know what the future holds for the likes of Man City and I suppose most supporters (rightly so) are riding the crest of a wave, but what happens when the numbers dont add up and the payback comes. Just like the credit crunch, you cant borrow on the back of tomorrows success if it never comes Everyone wants to be in the big four, we're no different, but I dont want it at any cost Lol if he did then he must he must have a very low self esteem because only a really shite manager could blow £100M and the side still be no better I would imagine a manager that bad would look like a fat Bolton doorman and speak with a Spanish accent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) if we KEEP finishing higher than Villa, would there be any point handing over to him! we do not finish above villa because of Bill, if is because of Moyes! if moyes had Learners money we'd finish higher than a few more teams i think Didnt David Moyes say that he doubted he could do any better if he had 100 million?? Look at the mess portsmouth are in, look at Newcastle, Leeds. I dont know what the future holds for the likes of Man City and I suppose most supporters (rightly so) are riding the crest of a wave, but what happens when the numbers dont add up and the payback comes. Just like the credit crunch, you cant borrow on the back of tomorrows success if it never comes Everyone wants to be in the big four, we're no different, but I dont want it at any cost i see what your saying Zed, but everton have massive debts to service. even if we were just debt free it would increase our spending power a lot. a takeover just paying off the overdrafts and mortgages would leave us running financially safe and having lots more cash for players and/or stadium improvements. Lol if he did then he must he must have a very low self esteem because only a really shite manager could blow £100M and the side still be no better I would imagine a manager that bad would look like a fat Bolton doorman and speak with a Spanish accent! im sure he knows he would improve the squad, he probably thinks thats the difference in quality between us and the top 4 Edited October 10, 2009 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 http://www.evertonbanter.co.uk/2009/10/concerns-regarding-budget-forc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 we do not finish above villa because of Bill, if is because of Moyes! if moyes had Learners money we'd finish higher than a few more teams i think i see what your saying Zed, but everton have massive debts to service. even if we were just debt free it would increase our spending power a lot. a takeover just paying off the overdrafts and mortgages would leave us running financially safe and having lots more cash for players and/or stadium improvements. im sure he knows he would improve the squad, he probably thinks thats the difference in quality between us and the top 4 I dont beleive for one minute that he wouldnt improve the squad with that kind of money I was just trying to light heartedly say there is no way he would have said that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I dont beleive for one minute that he wouldnt improve the squad with that kind of money I was just trying to light heartedly say there is no way he would have said that fair enough mate, i probably just took it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hers the comment, taken in context what he means is money isnt everything "Bill Kenwright, the Everton chairman who called Moyes the greatest manager in the world this week, has spent the past few years searching for fresh investment, or a new wealthy owner, but as important to Moyes is finding players with the right determination, spirit and humility. “There’s only one way to bridge the gap,” Moyes said. “You could give me £100 million and it might not get me any closer, who knows? The one thing we have got is big hearts and character.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 http://www.keioc.net/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=270&cntnt01returnid=15 The other side of the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 http://www.keioc.net/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=270&cntnt01returnid=15 The other side of the coin. as always, they make lots of good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 as always, they make lots of good points. Ratchets up the paranoia level a few notches though to suggest (in the opening para) that Bill controls the BBC doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Ratchets up the paranoia level a few notches though to suggest (in the opening para) that Bill controls the BBC doesn't it? Bill controlling the BBC is a little bit beyond reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Bill controlling the BBC is a little bit beyond reality. I just took that as a tongue in cheek piss take tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I just took that as a tongue in cheek piss take tbh. im sure no one took it literally, i hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 im sure no one took it literally, i hope. People will have done though. There are a lot of gullible people around, and although KEIOC and other BK knockers would have you believe that they are exclusively those that believe the board there are many on the other side also. Rumours, suppositions, and possibilities are swallowed whole as fact by many. Does anyone really believe that Bill wants £180m for himself (irrespective of where he got the money to buy into the club in the first place or what he plans to do with his profit) to part with control of the club? That's the inference from their "...source within the club." People will certainly take that literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 to be honest mike, i really dont know what i think of BK anymore. ive not been a fan of his for a long time, but i have always backed that he does what HE thinks is best for the club. but since he refused to answer how much he wants for the club and respond by saying hes bored of the question, he has gone down in my estimation. he could have quite easily said something along the lines of "any parties interested in buying the club can find out the price by contacting me in writing stating their interest." his change in attitude since the kirkby deal began has changed my opinion of him, im not sure what i think of him anymore. in reference to the gullible people who might take the BBC thing the wrong way, were gullible people not targetted in the vote? the empty promises with the stadium? from world class (which was actually put across as medium class i think it was, on the planning application) and the very poor transport links being described in a brighter light. i know its old ground but, i think the point still stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 in reference to the gullible people who might take the BBC thing the wrong way, were gullible people not targetted in the vote? Not arguing with that....perfectly valid opinion. That's the nature of votes/elections...keep it simple, point out and exaggerate positives, conceal and underplay negatives...massage statistics and get people on your side. Win the vote at all costs. Both sides did it and both sides always will... (For example millions of people will put David Cameron into Downing Street next year because they'll want to believe him and see him as the least worst option...they'll regret it. But they'd regret keeping Gordon Brown too so what can you do ) Said before that I can understand Bill's answer to that question because it was heavily loaded and I'd have been pissed off in the circumstances but it was a daft answer to give and I'm sure he regrets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Said before that I can understand Bill's answer to that question because it was heavily loaded and I'd have been pissed off in the circumstances but it was a daft answer to give and I'm sure he regrets it. The reason it's pissed so many people off is because Elstone opened up the meeting saying that it was all about communication, and then BK goes and has a brain fart like that. Edited October 13, 2009 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Not arguing with that....perfectly valid opinion. That's the nature of votes/elections...keep it simple, point out and exaggerate positives, conceal and underplay negatives...massage statistics and get people on your side. Win the vote at all costs. Both sides did it and both sides always will... (For example millions of people will put David Cameron into Downing Street next year because they'll want to believe him and see him as the least worst option...they'll regret it. But they'd regret keeping Gordon Brown too so what can you do ) Said before that I can understand Bill's answer to that question because it was heavily loaded and I'd have been pissed off in the circumstances but it was a daft answer to give and I'm sure he regrets it. i know mike, its all politics, but when he's painted as a saint in the press it makes the lies and statistics used for the vote even harder to swallow. it was a loaded question, but as mark says, they said it was open to any question. i honestly think, IF he wanted to sell the club he would name a price. cameron can tell me he's going to blow up everything north of watford and i'll still vote for him to get rid of the other baffoon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 i know mike, its all politics, but when he's painted as a saint in the press it makes the lies and statistics used for the vote even harder to swallow. it was a loaded question, but as mark says, they said it was open to any question. i honestly think, IF he wanted to sell the club he would name a price. cameron can tell me he's going to blow up everything north of watford and i'll still vote for him to get rid of the other baffoon! Some interesting points made since i've been sunning myself in Cyprus (seen that game against Wolves whilst there which darkened my mood ) I think even the most staunch Bill supporter can find fault with him especially with his response to the question "how much" - loaded or not the crux of all other discussion etc on the night was money - to which we need to sell our club to make money available to the manager. To refuse to answer that question was lame and only futhered the suspicions of the anti Bill mob that he is not prepared to sell at this moment. When other clubs seem to have no issues in attracting buyers then it is hard to believe the man. It will be interesting to see how Birmingham operate in the transfer window... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I have trouble with change. (EG I don't want to leave Goodison) So the possibility of BK selling is not a subject I like to dwell on. I think he has done a hell of a lot for the club, I really do. He brought in Moyes. He kept faith with Moyes when many other owners might have got rid of him. He put his money (what little there was of it) where his mouth is, and he openly admits to loving the club. So with that in mind I would be reluctant to see him go. On the other side of the coin, I know we need more money, I know we need to improve the squad and I know we need a better stadium. I can not bring myself to slag off BK for what he is or for what he has done. If I had the finances and interests that he has I may well have done the same as he has done. I would like to think I would anyway. Whatever the outcome I do believe that if he hadn't stepped up to the plate when the Johnson debacle took place we would be a lot worse off today (in more ways than one) than we actually are right now. For me it will be a sad day when/if he leaves. I hope it leads to happy days with the new owner, but I would need to be convinced on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I have trouble with change. (EG I don't want to leave Goodison) So the possibility of BK selling is not a subject I like to dwell on. I think he has done a hell of a lot for the club, I really do. He brought in Moyes. He kept faith with Moyes when many other owners might have got rid of him. He put his money (what little there was of it) where his mouth is, and he openly admits to loving the club. So with that in mind I would be reluctant to see him go. On the other side of the coin, I know we need more money, I know we need to improve the squad and I know we need a better stadium. I can not bring myself to slag off BK for what he is or for what he has done. If I had the finances and interests that he has I may well have done the same as he has done. I would like to think I would anyway. Whatever the outcome I do believe that if he hadn't stepped up to the plate when the Johnson debacle took place we would be a lot worse off today (in more ways than one) than we actually are right now. For me it will be a sad day when/if he leaves. I hope it leads to happy days with the new owner, but I would need to be convinced on that. Lol Thank God there is someone else in here with a memory span that goes beyond last week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 He put his money (what little there was of it) where his mouth is, and he openly admits to loving the club. i see what your saying. but Elstone did say that none of the current board have invested any of their money in the club. BK is one of the current board. he cant be criticised for not having the money, but he cant be praised too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 i see what your saying. but Elstone did say that none of the current board have invested any of their money in the club. BK is one of the current board. he cant be criticised for not having the money, but he cant be praised too. That is my whole feeling, sentiments run deep when you are a fan but they musn't remain - we need to address what is the next step for the club to move on so that we can enjoy our success. Would we have a team of Kilbanes because they are honest and have their hearts in the right place? So why have the same attitude to members of the board, I would much rather have a tyrant in the board room who isn't a fan but demands the best in all areas and is a hard faced winner, someone who can see what is required to make the changes needed and have the finances to make that happen - both on and off the pitch. I have had the nice feeling of seeing an Everton (once a blue always a blue) player scoring the odd winner against Man Utd or Arsenal, and a chairman telling the BBC how great we are. I want to see the tangible results in terms of silverware and I want other teams to hate us, i'm done with the patronising respect issued from ex red Sh&^e players on the beeb just cos we continue to punch above our weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I want other teams to hate us, I understand what you are saying. Personally I don't want others to hate us. I want them scared shitless of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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