Louis Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Here's some of what has been submitted to the inquiry (rest isn't up yet): http://inquiry.knowsley.gov.uk/Proof%20of%...;%20Design).doc http://inquiry.knowsley.gov.uk/Proof%20of%...nsport)_doc.pdf http://inquiry.knowsley.gov.uk/Proof%20of%...0Dec%202008.pdf http://inquiry.knowsley.gov.uk/Proof%20of%...Ballot)_doc.pdf More evidence can be found at http://inquiry.knowsley.gov.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Louis, has the fact that Kirkby is the end of a line station been mentioned (pros/cons)? So on matchday "bums on seats" heading towards Kirkby are going to be matchday goers, where as on a midway station (on a busy line especially) there is likely to be a mix of matchday goers and regular commuters. Just wondered if this has been mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Louis, has the fact that Kirkby is the end of a line station been mentioned (pros/cons)? So on matchday "bums on seats" heading towards Kirkby are going to be matchday goers, where as on a midway station (on a busy line especially) there is likely to be a mix of matchday goers and regular commuters. Just wondered if this has been mentioned? It's been mentioned in passing but not in much depth. It's not that Kirkby is end of the line that's the problem, it's because of physical constraints that reduce the efficiency of the station. I don't know how well you know the area so here is a photograph of the station: There is only one track and one platform to Liverpool (there is another platform that has hourly services to Wigan but isn't expected to have much demand even with the stadium). That's the Wigan line ^ (as you can see there are currently two seperate lines so it's not possible for a train direct from Wigan to Liverpool Central) The single track travels to over a purpose built bridge over the motorway and Fazakerly to station where it splits into two tracks . As it stands the frequency of the trains can not be increased any more than 15 mins apart otherwise the train would crash into a train travelling in the opposite direction as there is only track. Apparently the cost of adding a second track and building a new bridge/extending the existing one over the motorway is prohibitively expensive that can't be justified for a stadium that will be in use 26 days a year - Merseytram is a different story, if the development goes ahead it's business case is helped enormously by the presence of the retail park but it only has a small capacity for it to be considered useful for transporting supporters (from memory it was around 4,000 per hour so between tram and rail have the capacity for c. 8,000 fans in an hour for a 50,000 stadium). There are also concerns about the loading times of passengers, i.e. there is a x (from memory I think it's 8) minutes window to load 700+ passengers which apparently is quite tight (average load time of one and a half seconds per passenger). There are also plans to extend the line to a new station in Kirkby ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headbolt_Lane_railway_station ) which would reduce the window further making it much harder to meet the targets. Headbolt Railway station would have two tracks that would merge into one at Kirkby so that a train could wait at the station whilst another is loaded/unloaded). The proposed station doesn't help the stadium's transport case although its car park has been listed as potential park and walk site. Pros: Kirkby station will receive an upgrade that will allow a larger number of passengers to use the station (this hasn't been finalised yet, its things like widening platforms to allow more people to stand on it etc.) The number of train carriages will double increasing station capacity from 1900 to 3800 per hour Cons: Kirkby is already one of the busiest stations on the Merseyrail network because of long commute times between Kirkby and Liverpool (40+ minutes by bus, 18 by train, 25 by car - there's a low car ownership in Kirkby (49% of households have one according to 2001 census) ). Supporters will be held in a queuing reservoir outside the station because of the low capacity (in comparison to Goodison/Kirkdale) Less trains are able to visit Kirkby due to restrictions of rail track (there is only one line) This is possibly the answer to your question, spectator travel arrangements to the stadium for evening games will clash with rush hour and as Kirkby is one of the busiest stations in Merseyside there will be a lot of people trying to get on the train (a couple thousand supporters plus commuters). Longer waiting times for trains meaning getting home later after games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 if anyone has been to west ham, and has seen the chaos in the station there on a match day, i think its pretty similar scenario for a station on a match day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It's 5 minutes to load trains at Kirkby, not 8 as I said.. and up to 960 passengers (not 700)... Transport cross examination was today.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 due to main roads into kirkby and lack of parking, the club want us using public transport dont they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Is there a website link the states Liverpool Taxis can only pick up in the city centre after a certain time (or is it at all?)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 That's not quite right... taxis (private and hackney) can only pick up in their borough. They can take passengers to Kirkby but unless they were pre-booked or a Knowsley firm, they can't legally pick up a passenger in Kirkby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Is'nt that what he's just said. Liverpool cabs take them there, but Knowsley cabs take them home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Ah ok, never understood what the ruling is...and to an extent why it exists. Anyway, have to admit some interesting reading in the documents can't say I agree a lot of the arguments but some have merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I don't either, there should be one merseyside wide firm that can pick up and drop off anywhere and not charge double as soon as they are through the tunnel :angry2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest efctaxi Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 That's not quite right... taxis (private and hackney) can only pick up in their borough. They can take passengers to Kirkby but unless they were pre-booked or a Knowsley firm, they can't legally pick up a passenger in Kirkby. Private hire can't 'pick up' anywhere . All work must be pre booked . Doesn't matter whether in , or out , of the borough . If it's booked , it's legal , regardless of location . Private hire drivers are 'never' available for hire . Hackneys are licensed to undertake work be it at a rank , flagged down , booking , or any other opportunity that becomes available ' within ' their own borough . Outside of their borough , work is the same as private hire ; i.e , it must be prebooked . Bookings can come in the form of a verbal agreement , as opposed to phone call etc , if return journey is required . Hackneys aren't permitted to have their hire lights on outside of their own borough , and Private Hire don't have a for hire sign period . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 What he said Bill. But yeah. Taxis will be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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