Avinalaff

That's great, but 'if you don't put up, then shut up', for want of a better expression applies to many. I don't think it matters too much who goes or who doesn't, from a passion perspective, but it matters a little if the peeps that don't go, are the peeps who make the most noise, don't you think?

The poll and the negativity are 2 different things J. I don't know about you mate but I'm tired of reading pessimism. Better things to do with my time, especially given my situation. A few lads wouldn't know what hit them if they had real life issues to deal with. I wouldn't mind so much, but the lads who moan the most don't even go to the match. It's comical.

I don't know about you guys but I'm finding the negativity on the forum, mainly from one or two in particular very boring, and it's getting people thinking negatively too. Toffeetalk was always a positive place to hang out, but lately it's a haven for crybabies and pessimism. Any chance of trying to find some positives folks? There is still much to be happy about, even if things aren't perfect. Heck, when the Titanic sank, some folks carried on playing instruments, and some said "stuff this, I'm jumping in the first life boat that comes along". Our ship isn't sinking just yet, and there are plenty of fans from other teams who would love to sail in the good ship Everton and slap their badge on her, so how about stop whining and spreading negativity all over the place? It's ugly.

RAGE If you haven't tried this yet, you'll love it. Today is the first time I've given it a fair go, and I was very impressed. It has everything really, and nice game play too.

Ten, our most creative players were Pienaar, Arteta, and Baines. We lost both Pienaar and Arteta, which also affected Baines effectiveness. Take a strong look at how many other players we lost too, that weren't just first team players, but reserve. It's not about previous years. We are weaker now. They are stronger yet again. We have no money, yet when Moyes talks about getting 'free' players in, fans still moan. We looked at getting Barton in. Fans said "Huh, not him. pff.". We brought in Mcfadden. Fans go "Huh. We're scraping the bottom of the barrell". Moyes can't win. He brought Drenthe in on loan, and the Argentinian lad. He probably tried for many others too. All fans do is moan. Perhaps we should employ Paul flaming Daniels, so he can magic a few players out of the hat. It's pathetic that fans are so self centered that they want Moyes replaced. Do they want their wives replaced too when things aren't going well? For me, it's good times and bad times. Moyes deserves the good times as much as any fan.

You idiot. Don't you know anything? Howard is injured.

Other teams have strengthened. We are considerably weaker. In time, Moyes will get them to gel, and no doubt we'll get a top 10 finish this season if not better.

That appears to be the case.

What makes you think he is doing bad Steve? What is your expectation of him? What is your expectation regarding a finishing position? What obstacles are in his way in order to achieve your expectation?

Folk forget he walked out in a huff twice because the club wouldn't give him money 2nd and 3rd time around. Without money Kendall was useless. It's partly because of his management that we hit the lows we did, despite the highs of the 80's. We should be glad to have a manager who has supported us through thick and thin, and not fled as soon as the good times ended like Howard.

TJ, we've just had a run of games against the best sides in the league. I include Newcastle in that too, as they aren't 3rd because they are crap. Had we played Spurs we'd have done the full set, other than Arsenal. I mention Arsenal, as Arsenal are currently 7th. That is how hard the division is. Having played these teams, it's no surprise many of us are feeling down, but better times are ahead.

Picture being in a Chess game, and every time you turn away, someone takes away one of your pieces, and not just pawns, but key pieces. Meanwhile, the opponents are being given 3 or 4 queens by rich owners, and instead of having the same amount of pieces to begin with, you realise that even before the game started, you only had half the line up of the other teams. That is what Moyes faces. We've not had a decade of misery, but a decade of enjoyable times, and only in the last few seasons have we fallen slightly, but look at the teams who finish above us, and look how much they have spent. We still finished 7th last year. How exactly were we to compete with the money of City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs? We finished behind those teams. Take a look at their squads. We still finished above everybody else, and some of the teams below us also have rich owners. Moyes is a legend.

Moyes is a far better manager than little ole wine drinking Howard. Are you forgetting Kendall nearly took us down twice? Give Moyes the same money Kendall had and I'm sure he'd have a wide smile. Heck, give Moyes the same team, and I'm sure he'd smile. One thing Moyes has to compete with that Kendall didn't is Billionaire owners. If we gave Kendall the job Mike we'd be relegated, and you know it as much as me mate.

I agree. Thoughtful points well put.

Romey, Moyes was also responsible for getting us into the European Championship, regular top 6 finishing, Europa football, a Wembley final, and avoiding relegation in his first season. He's also been responsible for getting us players in with very little funding from the board, and bringing great young players into the squad too, not to mention giving all the fans a sense of pride and expectation again, which was something we hadn't enjoyed for decades. Those who are now on his case are selfish, insensitive, and unrealistic, and don't deserve a great manager like Moyes.

Haf, you're being naughty again, and I'm going to have to send you an Internet slap. Our players are playing shite. Isn't it time we blamed them?

I'm glad somebody else isn't carried away by all the doom and gloom, and thinks logically. This post reflects my own (almost word for word actually DM, did you copy me lmao ) but it's exactly how I feel. A few of you need to wind your necks in a little bit, and stop talking bollocks to be honest.

I thought he was decent, but inconsistent. A few games he set the place alight, and in others he had no impact. There is a lot of romance with Landon Donovan, but I'm not sure he will have the same success 2nd time around.

And his assist?

Tj, I'm going to do despicable things to your picture. Whining gits. You all deserve relegation.

We've also lost our best players too, which some seem to forget.

Folk need to offer Newcastle respect. I have 2 defenders in Taylor and Simpson in my Fantasy team. They have super players in that squad, and have been working well as a unit since they were relegated. This is a different Newcastle than before. I like this team, and admire them too. Nothing bad to say about them.

Drenthe for me on effort alone.

We're getting there though. I thought there were a few things to be positive about today despite the defeat. We bossed the game for periods, but we still need someone who can shoot. In all my time as an Everton fan I've never seen such lacklustre shooting. Are they football players or not? Surely every player can shoot can't they?

Vellios was injured in the warm up.