holystove

That's an interesting suggestion. I think Cornish Steve made the same suggestion earlier in the thread. I wouldn't take the right to vote away from 65+ as a general rule (after all, America just elected a 70 year old to lead them the next four years), but in this case where everyone who is 70 or older is unlikely to see the UK completely free of the EU, and because the vote has a lot more impact on young people who might want to work or live in other places than their parochial-minded grandparents, it would have been a good idea to ban the 65 or 70 plussers. For the same reason I think it would have been better if all expats would have been allowed to vote seeing how leaving the EU has a big impact on their situation. I read an article not long ago written by a statistician that if you held the vote today, the margin of victory of Leave would be smaller because of the number of (old) people that have died since June 23rd. If you look at the evolution of demographics it is very likely that by the time Brexit is fully implemented, the majority of the UK citizens will be against it.

That's the point though isn't it? The vote is over, the UK is going to leave. So isn't it logical that some people are trying to foresee what will be the consequences (maybe should have been done before the vote, but hey..) There's ten different ways this can play out. Right now it looks like a hard break which could have some adverse effects on the working class (http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/12/11/ten-reasons-why-brexit-is-bound-to-be-costly-for-ordinary-people/). Maybe May could choose a more soft approach, but that could anger the more rabid brexiteers and loose her votes ..

Rubecula said parliamentary elections in the UK are held every five years .. so 5 years? In a parliamentary democracy people choose representatives to make decisions on the many things that need to be decided but they don't have the knowledge (or time to acquire the knowledge - or access to the knowledge) to make an informed decision. how many years have gone by thus far where they haven't asked the question if everybody wants to pay 1000£ less taxes every year? I can just see it on the side of a bus : "Why are you sending 1000£ to elitist London when you could be spending it on yourself?" I'm sure there would be a bigger victory in that referendum than 52-48.

Well done Ronald. Wenger is an arrogant prick.

Written by an economist who doesn't believe Brexit will be positive for the UK but he does back it up with some interesting data. http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/

Someone started dumping Lockheed Martin stock just before Trump's tweet. - is this fake news or true? if true, shocking.

Dave Keating ‏@DaveKeating 1h1 hour ago The problem with UK media: even pro-EU publications don't know how EU works. Brits aren't taught this in school. http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-associated-citizenship-eu-brexit-verhofstadt-barnier/ Tough time for British people trying to be informed if both the anti-EU-media as well as the pro-EU-media is constantly factually wrong. Not a coincidence the public debate on the EU in the UK is of such poor quality.

I follow him aswell but I thought he's a bit too much with the legal mumbo jumbo to appeal to a broad audience. Though if you like him I'd also recommend @mattholehouse. These are the people I follow to keep up with everything Brexit: @Law_and_policy @DaveKeating @mattholehouse @APHClarkson (also my favorite tweeter on anything else, really interesting man (he's a lecturer at King's College London)) @rdanielkelemen @jonlis1 @IanDunt

I actually do understand the politicians not completely revealing their strategy (if they have one), but that doesn't mean people on here who truely believe in Leave can't post about what they think about freedom of movement vs access to the single market, if the UK can or should just fall back on WTO rules or not, if international coorporation has gone to far and the nation-state should become more important, etc.. It's OK to not have an opinion on this but if johnh believes the only people who post here are 'remoaners' because there is nothing to say for the people who voted leave, I disagree.

Fair enough. But none of the people who might post here have any influence on the negotiations so it wouldn't hurt if they said what they thought would be important to do when or where or how ..

I think it's because Leave has nothing to say but platitudes like "red white and blue" . I do post a bit in this thread and as stated in my first post in this thread I'm a huge fan of Leave. Also, I find the (legal) implications of the brexit vote very interesting and believe there is much to say (post) on that.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's not able to go online because he's protesting something in North Dakota. do hope he's well.

Not likely. The No in the Italian referendum and the Brexit vote are two totally different things. The Italian referendum was about constitutional changes that were also opposed by many pro-EU center-left leaders. If passed the constitutional reform would have greatly expanded the powers of government and would have removed a lot of checks and balances. The reason the EU Commission and the EU council were hoping for a "yes" in the Italian referendum was because a NO would create instability given that another Italian PM would resign so quickly after taking office; not because the EU had any real stake in it either being yes or no. I understand the appeal of trying to interpret the No in Italian referendum as part of a whole anti-EU sentiment that is sweeping the continent and will take down the entire EU because the last couple of months has convinced most people that the only way the UK will be better off after Brexit, is if it's not negotiating with a bloc of 27 unified countries. Sadly, just because some British tabloids make it up as fact, doesn't make it true. If the Austrian elections had resulted in Hofer (far right candidate) winning it, I'm sure the Daily Mail and the Sun would be writing that an Austria-exit was coming. Even though Hofer himself has said that he wants a strong EU and has pointed toward Farage supporting him as one of the reasons he lost.

Some new voter demographics. https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/heres-who-voted-for-brexit-and-who-didnt?utm_term=.xjjdaNKBNV#.loN9WzYBzM 2% of UKIP voters backed Remain? (the UKIP MEP's who will be without a job post-Brexit?) "People were more likely to vote with their newspaper than their political party" is also an interesting one. Tabloids really influential. Also shows that Brexit and Trump are really two different phenomona.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought Interesting article about some of the things that need to be done; .. once we move on from the "red-white-and-blue" phase of hollow statements meant to inspire patriotism.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give Pratchett a try. Are you talking about "The Blood Mirror"? Didn't know it was released already. Last one I read is "The Broken Eye". I prefer the Lightbringer series over the Night Angel trilogy, because imo there's more characters to get interested in. My absolute favorite is Patrick Rothfuss. The Name of The Wind and The Wise Man's Fear are my two favorite fantasy books. I can't wait for the third book to be published (apparently it has already been finished years ago.. I don't know what's the hold up).

Question for the fantasy-people. I just finished the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Have also read everything by Brent Weeks, Patrick Rothfuss, Scott Lynch, Joe Abercrombie, George RR Martin, Tolkien and Brandon Sanderson. Any suggestions what I should read next? Was thinking about Malazan but read a few pages of the first book a few years ago and didn't like it very much ..

Indeed a bit strange to hear that Boris is not against free movement of people and Davis saying he wants to pay for access to single market. read a funny tweet about this earlier: "Davis wants to quit netflix but after negotiating has agreed to pay 7,49£/month for access to their content."

..

I like Tusk. http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/11/29-tusk-letter-uk-mps/ uncertainty for Matt though

Adriano probably the most likely what he'll turn into out of those five mentioned (Adriano, Henry, Anelka, Drogba, Ronaldo). Don't really see him doing many "off the ball runs" like Anelka and Henry nowadays

- my favorite tweet related to May being guided by God: Charles West ‏@West_GP Nov 28 Beware of politicians who claim to be guided by God; it usually means that they can find no logical evidence for the action they propose.

Theresa May talks to imaginary friend to guide the UK out of EU. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-says-god-and-her-faith-is-guiding-brexit-decisions_uk_583bdcd7e4b0207d1918523c

http://qz.com/841036/is-steve-bannon-a-white-supremacist-trumps-advisor-wants-to-rebrand-racism-as-american-nationalism/ -- it might not be neo-nazism, but it's not far off. It's also not very nuanced to say Pompeo loves torture or that Sessions is a racist; I was overstating to make a point.

It's OK to be wrong once in a while.