Hafnia

commentators should stick to subuteo, they are getin a little excited cos it's benfica, you would think it's brazil, yet more patronising drivvle off people who still think we are the dogs of war.

That is my whole feeling, sentiments run deep when you are a fan but they musn't remain - we need to address what is the next step for the club to move on so that we can enjoy our success. Would we have a team of Kilbanes because they are honest and have their hearts in the right place? So why have the same attitude to members of the board, I would much rather have a tyrant in the board room who isn't a fan but demands the best in all areas and is a hard faced winner, someone who can see what is required to make the changes needed and have the finances to make that happen - both on and off the pitch. I have had the nice feeling of seeing an Everton (once a blue always a blue) player scoring the odd winner against Man Utd or Arsenal, and a chairman telling the BBC how great we are. I want to see the tangible results in terms of silverware and I want other teams to hate us, i'm done with the patronising respect issued from ex red Sh&^e players on the beeb just cos we continue to punch above our weight.

That's almost dreamworthy, let's see if Blue Bill struggles to get investors if we were able to get that...

4-5-1 is for teams who have a high qulity midfield, one that is able to operate intelligently, knowing when to push up and support striker, having composure to keep ball and play around teams. Arsenal for example, We can do a 4-5-1 when we have Areta, Pienaar, Rodwell, Billy and either Cahill or Fellani being able to bomb on. Without the composure of the previously mentioned 3, Cahill and Fellaini lack in their contribution and we become hoof up the field merchants from the back. I said it many posts ago, these performances were on the horizon due to the lack of funding = lack of (quality) squad depth, we should not be reliant on a lad of 18 going through a steep learning curve. Let's just hope we can get to new year in some sort of reasonable shape, we are in need of the injured players to return (full fitness) and we need more additions. Billy looks like he will become a great player for us, nice feet, composed, good vision - can see him linking well with Arteta.

It's the old chestnut "when we get xxxxxxxxx back and xxxxxxxxx back we will be spot on, great first team etc etc" As is the way with football in the premiership, the game is played at such pace, tough tackles, added Euro games, there are going to be injuries, which leads to the fans cursing the bad luck. I recall a few years back we had our first 11 fit for an uninterupted time - we got lucky, they got into a pattern of play and the team performed well. We have to be in a position where when an Arteta is injured, we have someone adequate to replace his creativity at the centre of the park (which would cost us £15m plus - Moutino IMO) The other day against Wolves seen us revert to long ball after long ball, with a centre half/right back playing in Midfield - I hoped we hgad come away from that, we were playing a newly promoted team and we were the ones who looked newly promoted. We are pretty much desperate for Jags and Arteta and Pienaar to get back, it will allow us so much variety in what we can do, a fit again Yak should form a good partnership with Saha. So we wait in hope,,,,,,,,

Some interesting points made since i've been sunning myself in Cyprus (seen that game against Wolves whilst there which darkened my mood ) I think even the most staunch Bill supporter can find fault with him especially with his response to the question "how much" - loaded or not the crux of all other discussion etc on the night was money - to which we need to sell our club to make money available to the manager. To refuse to answer that question was lame and only futhered the suspicions of the anti Bill mob that he is not prepared to sell at this moment. When other clubs seem to have no issues in attracting buyers then it is hard to believe the man. It will be interesting to see how Birmingham operate in the transfer window...

Leon Osman: (my value £5m) Pro's: Two footed, clever, skillful, true blue cons: weak, lacks pace, inconsistent, fades out of games Steven Pienaar: (my value £12m) Pro's: Two footed, clever, skillful, energetic, hard working, versatile, assists, strong, quick, influencial cons: maybe hasn't scored as many goals as he should given his talent

Why buy a player jack of all trades who is the master of none, the game has moved on since Smith was a goal scorer. On a free transfer I would say no, let's use any money to add to getting young hungry players like Victor Moses for £3m (rumoured price)

Absolutely agree, and that season when everton finished 17th Moyes was prone to making bad tactical errors to the point that Kenwright must have been getting a little frustrated. However I think Moyes professionalism and work ethic which is almost legendary would have made that tough for Bill, let alone we had no money and were about to sell our prize asset to stay afloat. For Bill to sack him would have been a bad move financially, who would come in to manage a club that was about to sell a star and replace with Marcus Bent? Let alone the compo pay off for Moyes. Let's give Bill the credit he deserves, and that is getting Moyes into the club. Let's give Moyes the platform he deserves and that is money. Moyes had stated £30m would have enabled him to break the top 4 and the players to do that were earmarked...

If that's the case then truely gutted, I never knew enough about him but seen the youtube stuff which actually could make Brett Angel look great. Watched a good 15mins live and in that time he was none stop, box to box, making things happen. Would have been a landmark signing. Better than I think his reputation suggests and for his size would have no probs with the EPL.

This is a top thread, and one i'm happy to reply to after a few pints, it's one that splits Evertonians right through. Last night I was at a sportsmans dinner with Dave Watson speaking, and he was tops, a great bloke, blue through and through. He started telling stories about times when he was captain in the dark times and I thought no way was it that bad - surely that wasn't Everton (Before wimbledon last day etc), and it's true, I do forget how bad we have been under the likes of Peter Johnson. What we have now feels so much better and enjoyable, and I do appreciate Kenwrights stewardship to that extent - but ultimately it's down to Moyes. The fact is the playing field was much more level then, everyone got their andrex out when Ravanelli signed for Middlesborough FFS, nowadays we have Robinho, Torres, Drogba, Fabregas, and last but not least Arteta playing in the premier league - the top teams have the best of the best and that ultimately separates the top 4 from the rest (now top 6 IMO)- for us to be back where we belong we can not cling on to the hope that our next £15m signing isn't funded by selling part of what Moyes has built. Moyes has finished scrubbing Kenwrights boots as a YTS, he is ready to claim his shirt - will it be at Everton? Depends on how much more Kenwright wants his boots cleaned, the man needs serious financial backing.

Didn't we we buy Fellaini to replace Carsley? £3m more could have gotten Moutinho allegedly......... (bit like buying one of thise TV/DVD combo's from Tesco and seeing a 32"" Samsung for £20 more a day later) p.s anyone seen moutinho recently? watched him last week, outstanding player, similar to arteta but more box to box. Great mobility, speed of thought and technique. The best player to replace Carsley is Rodwell, evidently we haven't got the money to do that in the market in order to allow Jack the time to stand back and develop at the right pace, instead we may end up over analysing a kid just out of the reserves against a champs league, FA cup, league winning captain. Rodwell is the second best centre midfielder we have, the problem is that the best one is injured. Neville is a great leader, a person who will do anything he can to win, he is not a first choice midfielder in a top 4 team, if he was, he would still be at United, but I am happy he is here. Rodwell is the new Rooney, we will all be looking at him to do the things experienced players should be doing, await the return of Arteta, you don't realise how good something is till it's gone.

It's almost like telling your brother who's turning 11 that Santa doesn't exist, you know it's cruel and is probably shattering their present delusioned joy, but in the long run it will save him from the big bully's at school. FFS, how many times do you need to find your presents in the wardrobe to find out that you have been lied to??? Quiz question: name the clubs that have been bought whilst he has been actively looking for a buyer? We can assess each buyer after that......

I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent reason for how he was caught up in this and that will be presented by his defence. As with the Gerrard situation, it's not what you did in some cases, it's who you are and your "importance". Same went with Cantona, could you imagine SAF sticking up for Djemba Djemba or Kleberson in the way he did with Eric? Sad thing is, if he was your average talent he may not get the support he may well be afforded and the club may wash their hands of him. Everyone makes mistakes at some stage, let's hope his first alleged big one isn't his downfall. Still a young lad, and whilst we still don't know the details, there will be an element of learning to be taken from this event. He could do with reading Mark Wards book... A lot of young players do tend to get in some form of trouble when they are younger, it seems they are unable to appreciate what they have and what will become of them if they lose it. Nothing is proven, innocent till proven guilty stands for all, footballer or not.

Ah right, I see, Kenwright and Moyes come as a set? So in order to keep Moyes as manager we need to have Kenwright. Wasn't aware of that clause. That's a bit like the old George Michael and Andrew Ridgley partnership, one with obvious talent and one in the limelight for no apparent reason. I was kind of hoping without that then maybe we could keep Moyes and have someone like Lerner backing him (who has put about £85 net transfer funding behind MON) Not that he doesn't sound like he knows he hasn't got the financial backing he needs when asked: Q: "Ultimately you spent less than £5m net, bringing in Fellaini and selling Andy Johnson. How much would it have taken to ‘have a real go’?" A: We’ve had 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th-place finishes in my six seasons and got close to being able to establish ourselves alongside the Big Four. I think £30m-£40m would have given us a realistic chance. But a lot of clubs are spending now, Man City, Villa, Tottenham, Newcastle . . . so we might have needed £30m just to stay fifth. And it could take four years of spending £30m to bridge that gap with the Big Four. source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/everton/article5299415.ece (in fact read the Answer to the question: How much longer can you have the energy to keep pushing Everton forward while the club is scrimping and saving? Would you still like to see a manager like Moyes partnered with a chairman unable to fund him in the way that Lerner has supported MON (who has made some questionable signings admittedly). When in the words from the man himself supports what I have always thought "That if we were given that extra injection of money when we were challenging top 4, we could have made that breakthrough to the level where our revenue would possibly increase by a further £20m a season with champs league"

In short, need Arteta back. He will bring out the best and develop Rodwell, he will stop Fellaini admiring his own Ray Wilkins esque horzontal style passing, and he will give Saha the basis to make intelligent runs that may get picked out.

Ooops, forgot that Kenwright was the brains behind getting the likes of Arteta, Cahill, Pienaar, Neville, Howard, Saha, Lescott individually for less than £5m per man apiece. Can't even be bothered working out the average transfer fee per man on that lot (actually I did £2.78m per man) that was Moyes, not Bill. Yeaaahh, let's stay with Bill, while Martin O'neil is allowed the opportunity to make his blueprint for the future and knock back £18m bids for an average left sided midfielder and continue building with the likes of Delph (who we missed out on) whilst we sell to buy. Any joy that we have had is down to Moyes, not the man who got Moyes in. Our top 5 status is rapidly diminishing. Giving Kenwright credit for our recent near achievments is a joke. Just think what Moyes could do with real financial muscle.

I should start a thread "If chairmen were footballers, would you sign Kenwright?" - it would be chulish to do so, so I won't. However the point remainsa that we all feel like we are in debt to a man who has sacrificed zilch in all honesty (cos he ain't got it to sacrifice), who will profit from a period where the club has improved, but not at the level that the operating staff given the right funding could have. FACT: Lerner tried to buy Everton.

Since when in any sport or business is being the 5th best satisfactory or an opportunity to rejoice? It can be used as a measure to check progress, but when you are quite clearly behind the other 4 in terms of funding and quality and talent pipeline, you know that is all you are going to get unless your business model has a complete overhaul. I for one can not see myself being content with watching us struggle to match the pinnacle of the premiership elite, in Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and the new pretenders in Man City and Spurs. It will never be through lack of passion, it wil ultimately be down to having the owners having the same financial ambition and investment as fans like us. Unfortunately for Bill, his one main tick point on his CV is David Moyes - he can not expect to remain in control of this club based on that. Any one of us could hold court with a journo and get bleary eyed talking about heroes of the past, but whilst he ain't got the cash to fund this club the way it needs, the heroes of the present and future will not remain at this club.

We are suffering from Arteta-itus, very similar conditions to arthritus but can be more ditressing. Symptoms: may suffer an inability to hold things (namely the ball) The tendancy to hurl frequently (namely a long punt up the field) Blurry vision (evident by repeated passing of the ball to opponents) Symptoms can be reduced by relying on the support of your younger family member (Rodwell) but you really shouldn't be depending on people with little experience of this condition. it's Friday...................

Fair play to Tony Hibbert, looked like a midget at centre half but he was a giant, best game for a long while and will stick in the memory. Had to contend with ball after ball coming through, which leads me on to my old mate Fellaini - there are things he does well but he really flatters to deceive. His job is to win the ball and use it (that's if he's a midfielder) his goal got him out of jail. Look at their goal again, the lad should not have got the shot away, he was fellaini's man. When Agard came on the pitch he looked like Usain Bolt given the lack of pace we had in the team tonight. A great 3 points, as with Portsmouth, not great viewing.

Fellaini was half an hour late for the ball that broke when they went on the attack. His attempt at closing down the shot was pathetic. Great strike, should not have got it away. Felli needs a rocket.

Spending £5m on a centre half who couldn't head a ball wasn't a gamble, it was wreckless. Cahill was pennies, VDM you knew he had talent, Saha has always had class, just fitness. I said at the time it could be another Andy Gray and it's looking good so far. Moyes has been prudent all in all.

If he ain't where the ball lands in and around the box cos he's been running the flanks what is the point? People would be quick to criticise a centre half who is caught up the field when the ball is in our half. As long as he shows for the ball and defends from the front then he is doing his job - for me, he does that. We shouldn't be looking at Yak to subsidise other players, we should be looking at the other players to provide service to Yak. It's why we all wanted to be strikers as kids!

Been badly missed, Cahill does not loomk the same player without Arteta in the team. Relishing seeing a flat 4 midfield of Billy - Rodwell - Arteta - Pienaar. Would be good to see Saha and Yak together, that will give any defence a headache.