Hafnia

A f*&*&* joke, why wasn't he tied down before it's come to this. Can't blame him, the idiots running this club have a lot to answer for. We gave Neville a ridiculous extension, which I'm not against, but one of our best players has to wait to get parity? It's like Don Hutchison all over again!

Agreed, there is a lot of factors to consider when you try to price Rodwell. Versatility, can play centre mid, centre half (I would hazard a guess he could do a job at full back or as a centre forward - seriously) He has at least 14 years left at this level, to replace with someone of his ability we would need potentially 2 signings to cover him for the period of his career (if you base this on the assumption that we would replace him with a 25/26 year old = two transfer fee's)- you can tell he will be an England regular - potentially captain - he is media friendly and is marketable, he is the type of player you can build around. In ten years time he will be at his peak - quite a scary thought, spread a £20m fee over that time, it's £2m a year eadoer i career it's less, we have just signed distin for that kind of value - who with all due respect is not in the same bracket as Jack. Without sounding ridiculous, you are looking at Sergio Aguerro money - £50m - £60m. I had a chat with a Liverpool fan last night who played at a high level, he has known about Rodwell for a while, he reckons his two footed ability is priceless and says that Rodwell is the next Gerrard.

I'm lucky to have seen Everton win two leagues, European Cup Winners Cup and become arguably the best team in Europe. We did that in a different climate, money was different but ultimately player mentality was the same. The likes of Sheedy, Bracewell, Sharp, Steven knew they could win things at Everton and we certainly didn't need to sell to buy. When we did sell (Steven to Marseille, Stevens to Rangers etc due to Europe ban) we became a weaker team, and yes we were reimbursed. The point is that we will never become a success when we sell stars of the future. As you say Romey we have become a selling club.

Liverpool didn't want to sell Alonso, Rafa ballsed that up by offering him out the previous year thinking Bary was on his way - so Alonso spat the dummy out, Crouch was a sub, as too was Robbie Keane - Liverpool wanted to sell them to get whatever money they could. Fact is, we are not in a position to keep players we want that would make us a better team. It all boils down to the board, and the topic is money - we ain't got any and never will at this rate.

yeah, let's get him, Di Maria, and Moutinho, wait there just woke up......

I'm waiting for the "I won't sell him for £50 million" - then we know he's on his way. Future England captain, then again so is Rooney. If we do get investement it can't come quick enough, this is a lad who the team should be built around for years to come. Please don't anyone say "£20m would be good business" because like the muppet Townsend and many others will say for years to come, Everton are a good club to "learn your trade" - I thought that was Tranmere, Preston etc. Is that all we are? Maybe we are if we keep selling our best players when bids in the region of £20m come through.

Kenwright will be the first chairman that we will not have won a trophy under in the pasxt 20 odd years, however I am not using that as something to beat him with. The fact is the top division has changed, the last time we won a trophy, people were still watching serie A for the best players (we all got excited over Ravanelli?!) - we need something groundbreaking to turn us into the financial force we once were, with an old stadium, it is the first time Everton can class themselves outside of the elite. Relegation would see this club go into admin, investment would see us contend for the title, that I believe.

I think we should be grateful to Bill for what he has done, however the gratitude will turn into resentment "if" there are any suggestions that he has put himself and some cash before the success of the club. If the 24/7 search for investment is a promise then we should be expecting to hear something along the lines of interest. Is the Kirby decision what this all hinges on? We will see shortly, I for one am against the move - I smell a rat.

Frank was sold for £11m, peanuts compared to the £18m received for Rio. When old arry wanted to spend the Rio money on transfers he was told their salaries would be factored in to the transfer fee as part of a total deal (sounds familiar) - arry was also told to accept this as the chairman had turned a blind eye to some of his questionable dealings. Minto, Camara etc. He resigned, the money from the transfers wasn't seen as most went on the stadium, and West Ham were relegted and in debt.

You say we became a stronger squad after selling the best footballer in England - the irony. That is my point exactly. It's a false economy, we are trying to fill a bath with water and the plug has gone missing! The sale of Rooney wasn't a cure for our clubs financial state, it was a symptom of what is going on. We sold Rooney and became a better squad - it wasn't hard, scott gemmill, nyarko, alexanderson, Li Tie, Kilbane, Chadwick, plus an aging back 4 and keeper were squad members round that time. Point is we had to sell Rooney (of which I wish the club would admit what really went on, - same situation as Gary Speed I guess) Lescott was great business? It was on the basis that we got more than the going rate, it wasn't great business in that we were left frantically trying to patch up a defence that has since been leaking goals. When Baines got injured we had to throw a inexperienced lad (Coleman) against Benfica. What has this got to do with West Ham? West Ham had the makings of a great team sold for what was deemed good buisness(Ferdinand, Cole, Carrick, Lampard, Defoe), what did the money they received get them?

No, in a word. If selling someone who is currenly worth in the region of £60-£70m for £10m up front with £10m in installments plus add ons depending on their success represents strength, then to repeat the act several years later only to use that money as the sole means of transfer activity after finishing 5th and a cup final, then strength is not what I would call it. Given we have acheived way more than can be expected in the league with very little outlay, with very little left to spend (with no assets - discussed in main article)do you think we are strong? I don't. We are in a very vulnerable position indeed, the only way out of this is money - Kenwright doesn't have any, we need someone who has. History has a way of repeating itself, who's next? Rodwell, Arteta, Jags??? Did West Ham end up strong after selling Ferdinand, Lampard, Cole, Carrick, Reo Coker? http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/article-23674062-harry-redknapp-slams-hammers-for-selling-home-grown-stars.do Again history has a way of repeating itself, the more that the Kenwright topic rears it's head, the more I find myself repeating. Sod it, let's be a feeder club and hope for the odd Wembley semi final eh...

Never before has the need for finance been so crucial in recruiting the best players in the world. And never before have we been so far behind in terms of recruiting top talent. If it's not the fee it's wages, if it's not the wages it's none champions league football. And we can not provide this without real investment in the playing staff. I don't know any empire or industry that has gained strength from selling their key assets, nor do i know any industry that improves by having someone who admits having no business brain as chairman. It's almost like playing monopoly, selling your assets to the player who needs them so they can start building houses and hotels, you are not going to win. We need to land on free parking, get all the lovely free cash in the middle, and laugh at the other players when they make silly cash offers. I can see bill landing on free parking after he has sold park lane and mayfair i'm afraid.

i like the fact that the poster had read this thread, especially as they used my nil satis closing piece. I would like to say it was me on sos but it wasn't. It is important that we as fans question any grey areas going on in this club. Once exposed to lying or otherwise, you can expect the following outcry to deter any further mismanagement or lies. Our story of recent years has been similar to brawn in f1, the good fortune will ultimately run out once a need for cash surpasses the success we have enjoyed due to our competitors missing a trick or two. A net spend of 4 million per year really does send alarming signals.

Here is a piece by a blue who replied to his article: eek, it seems we have people armed with more info than the journo's, tin hats on Bill!!!

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/football-banter/2009/02/why-david-moyes-not-guus-hiddi.html#comments it's clear that the man thinks we should be grateful for what we have, know our place, shut up and let the press decide what is right for the club and state where sit amongst the elite. In the article attached he suggests Moyes would be the ideal manager for Chelsea, really? "But Mr Maddock, we want Moyes to have a crack at managing our club with some money to spend??? - can we keep him please?, and whilst you are there can you not publish any stories saying that Man Utd are the ideal club for Jack Rodwell to continue his development, we don't want other clubs to think we are there just to supply them with future talent" The article above clearly shows the detachment between fleet street journo's and the true fan. Yes some true fans are prepared to stick with Bill, fine. I'm not. It's got to the state now that journo's see our fans as ever loyal, happy go lucky, comically ambitious. The only solution to this is to get some serious investment and wipe the sarcastic smiles off their faces, maybe we will even get more than 2 mins on match of the day. Nil satis nisi optimum is not just a nice latin banner, it is what we should expect, and no journalist has the right to tell us otherwise.

Gosling should be ineligible for criticism. He is 19 years of age, no international experience and should not be needed to be deployed by a premier league club, we paid £1.5m or so for him so it's a case of let's see if he can make it, I don't think he can, but being played in a team with no confidence is hanging him out to dry. Jo has international experience playing for Brazil! Was top scorer in russian league etc etc, swapping shirts at half time against Benfica showed his professionalism and commitment. Blame the manager, blame the board, blame the players who know better, don't blame youngsters who have had to come in to a decimated team. Who knows, he may have become a good player, still may become one, but this will do his confidence no good, he shouldn't be out there playing in front of a poor right back.

Outlined on CH5 how our centre halves are stepping into the man who in turn lays off ball into the space they vacated. To be honest we need replacements for these players: Yobo, Hibbert, Fellaini. Distin will prosper with Jaqs next to him, Benfica are a very good team however.

Catch 22. How can we get champs league when we sell our best players to the teams vying for top spot? How can you attract top players to your ambitions when your ambitions are funded by selling the best players? How can you keep your best players when those around you will pay more? The answer these days is cash cash and more cash. I am happy with what I see at pitch level, I'm not happy with what our manager is expected to develop our squad on, that is what the board are meant to sort out, they ain't so get them gone before more of the family silver is sold.

I've about managed to keep the mindset that we are a big club, however if continually exposed to debates about how much we will sell our best players to 'bigger?!' clubs, that mindset will challenged. We are a big, we are able to keep players happy to a point. That point arrives when we are exposed at being financially weak. Do Liverpool fans discuss how much they will sell Torres for, or do they think ooooh let's sell Gerrard for £100m. They don't, because they realise that the asset is best deployed on the pitch, look at what has happened to them since Alonso's sale. Let's stop even contemplating that the sale of players that we should be building a team around is something we have to do. We will never win trophies with that mentality, The mentality we need to adopt is that we have the foundations of a good team, to build on that we need money, do we get money from our board? No! - Get a board in that will do that and stop relying on Moyes being a track suit version of Derrick Trotter.

I said a while ago, that under Kenwrights stewardship we are vulnerable to the supposed Big clubs coming in to get Jack. This is not a direct criticism of Kenwright, it is pointing out the fact that money talks, and we haven't got any. We need a big backer otherwise we may as well get used to mid table mediocrity. With financial backing we have the ability to reject bids and give contracts to players that they would be worth. If we had Ronaldo would we have got £80m off Madrid? Nope, probably less than half that amount. The transfer market is a game of poker to a large extent, and everyone can see our hand and know our play at the moment. Selling Rodwell would be worse than selling Rooney, Rooney needed to be sold to stop the club going under. We do not need to sell at the moment, it's just that our main source of vast income is selling players. If united sold Scholes, Beckham, Gary Neville, Giggs to the highest bidder when they were still under 20 would they have won what they won? No chance. If Liverpool sold Gerrard for £40m to Chelsea, would what they spent the next £40m on in transfers replace gerrards impact for Liverpool, no chance. Let's get out of the mind set that we need to sell to strengthen our team. Yes it's nice to make money and to buy players, not at the expense of potential world class home grown talent.

We need to add quality as well as numbers, would he get first team spot? Not really, we are in need of getting a midfielder in who can play alongside arteta in a central 2 man partnership, in the longrun Rodwell is the lad to do that but we need to allow him to develop without the need to put such pressure on his shoulders. save the £4m, get another £12m and look at moutinho or velosso, the likes of cahill and fellaini aren't first names on sheet for me so any more players need to be better than those two.

In the summer transfer window I was unhappy at how funds were used/made available (well funds all being one quality player leaving) and I said we were 2-3 further injuries away from disaster, well here it is unfolding in front of our very eyes. Expecting us to get results at the moment is totally unrealistic, bad luck yes we have had, but we already had a weak squad at the start of the season. If we told the rest of the league, hold off till Jags, Arteta and Yak are back fully fit then that would be a starting point. We have rode our luck with a weak squad for some time now. I can't imagine what the confidence of Gosling and Rodwell is at the moment. Bad times, we have relatively easy fixtures thus far and we ain't done great, what's the next few weeks got in store... Just really have got to hope for an investor to plough some serious cash into this club.

My belief and understanding is that we do not have the financial resources to compete at the level we believe we should be performing at. Miserable, not at all, I enjoy being an Evertonian, I am prgmatic, I see the problem further back than what is evident on the field. That problem off the field will in my opinion force our manager to take the next serious job offer he receives. Then let's see who can perform miracles on uncle Bill's loose change then.

Moyes will not have enjoyed the fact he was forced to play 3 youth players tonight in that match (Jack needs 2 weeks in the sun), I have said time and time again we are 2-3 first team player injuries away from disaster and people think we are the victims of bad luck - yes we are in terms of the nature of the injuries (knee etc) but in terms of volume to other teams here we are:- http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php I honestly believe Moyes will get to breaking point soon with having to fight with one hand behind his back, let's face it, we all know that we are not going to do top 5 this season, Moyes will be fully justified in seekng a new challenge that will provide him with the funds to have a crack at the big 4 (or now 6. Big hearts and character would not have got a result against Benfica tonight, a squad with strength in depth would. And in all honesty if I see that 1970's Harlem Globetrotter of a footballer in our midfield again it will be too soon, his lack of mobilty and work ethic is a disgrace, £15m down the pan there.

Jo's just had a nice little leg over apparently.